p-z.html

My name is Rusty Burleigh
I am presently working on a 1953 45'Catalina D.C.F.B.
I was wondering what your thoughts were reguarding using pressure treated lumber for interior structure and possibly a preservative application to interior hull
Thanks for your time
Have a great day

Pressure treated wood has no real advantage in boat work. Besides
being toxic, especially when sawing, it has a low moisture content (helps in
saturation of preservative) which leads to swelling problems in a moist
environments. Plus a good paint or varnish protects the wood as
well.-------gary

question: gary i have a 1968 chirscraft with lapstrek plywood hull
she has plywood with mdo[ medium density overlay ]what
is the bast way to remove 6 layrs of paint
can i use a heat gun ? she is 33 ft long and it would take a lot in striper i am afrade that i will lift the mdo
doug lelacheur pei canada thanks

Because of the MDO finish, the only way I trust removing the paint
is with an orbital sander with a softpad. No sense in removing it all, just
take it down to where the paint is adhering well.You can also use a palm
sander but it takes a lot of effort to remove a little paint. Those are nice
boats---good luck---gary

question: I have coated the inside of my wooden boats bilge with penetrating epoxy then a two part epoxy paint. Did I speed up the rot process? the epoxy paint does not let moisture through. I think oil base paint would have been better.

You're correct, oil based paint would have been a better choice for the
reasons you gave. I would just keep some salt water in the bilge to
discourage rot and when the epoxy paint peels off either leave it bare or
paint with oil paint. I use a regular porch & floor paint--tuff
stuff. -----have fun--gary

question: This season, I decided to repaint the bootstripe on my Parkins Herreshoff H28 due to some small (1/8in) bubbles/blisters I noted in the existing bootstripe paint, which I assumed to be as result of poor prep or paint selection by the previous owner. In the process of sanding the bootstripe in prep for new paint - I found bubbles in numerous locations not visible on the surface. I chased the bubbles through several paint layers - they seem to reside at the paint/gelcoat interface. There does not appear to be any problem with the gelcoat. The bottom has barrier coat and no blisters. The boat spent several months heavily loaded in fresh water. resulting in the bootstripe being right at the waterline with some growth appearing on the bootstripe paint..

What is causing these blisters/bubbles and how should I prevent them. Is it a sign of high moisture content in the fiberglass??? Did the marine growth penetrate the paint??? Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Chris

I am not very qualified to give advice on problems with paint and
fiberglass boats but I think your analysis is about as good as it gets. The
marine growth may well have microscopically impregnated the gel coat to
cause slight water penetration. I would tend to strip off the paint and let
the hull dry out , sand the waterline and apply a coat of penetrating epoxy,
then prime first with a fiberglass etching paint then a regular primer, and
finally the finish coats .

Also I would go to the Interlux paint site http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa/
,and ask them for their advice---------good luck--gary

I have 1969 32' Grand Banks (mahogany planks/oak frames) up on a very cold clear fresh water lake in North Idaho. We are getting set to haul out and apply bottom paint. What would be your recomendation for bottom paint and also how best do I protect the bilge area from the fresh water.

You need to know what bottom paint is on there so you can use a compatable one---Hard or soft, vinyl or otherwise. As far as the bilges are concerned put in a salt block or just spread salt around the bilges. Salt kill the rot fungus----g

I forgot to tell you the paint. It is Interlux BottomKote - soft. The fellows at

the boat yard are saying if we can strip all of the soft paint off and or find a

A lot depends on how you are going to use the boat. Is it going to stay in the water for long periods of time, with little use or a lot of use or just for one season or so. There are no wood eating worms in fresh water that I know of and the worst bottom growth is only algae & slime mainly at the waterline so the whole thing maybe no big deal. Hard is preferable but the hassle to remove the soft may not be worth the difference. If it were me I would slap on some soft and go boating------g

You have an excellent Webpage and are providing outstanding information, a very worthwhile service of an almost forgotten trade. Your assistance is greatly appreciated by the many you have helped.

I have a 38' Pembrooke Cruiser the hull is of Lapstrake construction and it appears to be very solid with only a few planks in the transom requiring replacement, also, the bottom has been fiberglassed by the previous owner. The boat is in Florida and my question is what paint I should use for the hull? I would like to take advantage of some of the new technology developed for marine paints, but there are so... many new products on the market and they all say they are the best. Maybe I should have prefaced this by telling you I am in my mid sixties and have some mobility problems so painting the hull is something I only want to do once in my lifetime. So I would like to do it right with the best products available. Do you recommend any of these for Lapstrake boats; AWLgrip, CFlex, Interlux, etc. Please advise, what is the best product to paint my boat

Thanks for the accolades, it helps. Nice boat, deserving of a good paint job. As you know 80% of a good paint job is the preparation. Plenty of sanding, filler and the appropriate primer. As far as the finish goes, if you don't go down to bare wood, you have to make sure what you put on is compatible with what was used before. The more high tech the paint the more difficult the application and the more critical the proper temperature and humidity. I have always used Interlux Brightside enamel with good results and it is easy to touch up over time. I am not much of an expert when it comes to painting and would suggest you get more opinions by asking your question on the forum at www.woodenboat.com. Have fun and send a photo when you're done-------gary

.Hi Gary
Your life story of boats warms me inside; anyway I have got
a large problem; about 14ft of problem.
I bought a small sea fishing boat shell for £150, which I thought was a
bargain. Months later with no help
from all the enthusiastic people at the time, I'm getting there slowly;
especially with comments like; that wreck will never sail, followed by
rounds of laughter, It's my first boat and I do not have much money. I am
turning it into a Canal Cruiser. Another problem I have is the advice I get
from amateur house DIY men, never one piece of advice the same, What I need
to know is what preparation and what paint to use for the top and bottom.
The hull is fiberglass, and the top (home made by someone) is made of ply,
(not marine ply) and full of damp.
Please can you help
Gill
.

Gil:
Yes, with boats everyone is an expert. Hull preparation and what paint to use depends a bit on what is on there now. Assuming you can sand or scrape off the existing paint and get down to the bare fiberglass, I would fill any indents with epoxy putty or fairing compound and sand the bare glass lightly. There are many choices of paint types, from basic alkyd all the way to complex two part epoxies. The alkyd or oil base paint is fine for the plywood decks, after they dry out. Unless you are working in a very controlled environment i.e. temp. and humidity controlled which is necessary for the 2 part epoxies, I would recommend you do the hull and bottom with a single part polyurethane (Interlux Brightside is one]. Of course prime first with their suggested primer. Enjoy your new "old" boat. Hope this helps-------gary.

Hey there Gary, I have an old houseboat i am renovating, i have had it in the water for a few years. I have it drydocked at the moment and am going to paint the bottom. It is wood and i fiberglassed over it. What kind of paint should i use for it. Anti-fowling, or just a good marine paint, or do you think there is something better that i could use? I am going to leave it in the water again for a few years after i put it in.
Thanks for your help.
Cheers
Mike

MIKE;
It depends whether the boat is in fresh or salt water. If fresh, than any good oil based paint is OK, but if in salt water you must use a good toxic bottom paint to keep the little critters from making it a home.-----------------gary

I am restoring an old Seabird yawl. The bilges were originally painted
with red lead. What paint can I use over this without stripping?
Thanks, Mike Schifsky, Orcas Island, Wa

Mike:
If the red lead is not flaking use any good oil paint, I use porch and floor paint, not many colors but holds up really well. You have a nice boat. I'd like to find one out here. If you have further questions feel free to ask ----------------gary

question: I just bought a 1965 Owens Flagship to restore. It has a plywood hull which is in rough shape.The original owner replaced the aft but did not seal any edges.What type of filler and sealers should be used.Also, before I put any sealer on, should the hull be sanded to the bear wood or just roughed up?
Are there any sealers already mixed with paint? If not what kind of paint should I use?
Does the sealer need to be applied below the water line?
Do plywood boats need to swell before putting them into a body of water?
Thank you for answering my questions

.
Hi;
I know those boats well. First, plywood does not swell. Second any exposed edges of plywood must be well sealed preferably with epoxy. The edges are the only area where water can enter and separate the glued plywood layers. The surface of the plywood, if already painted, does not need sealer. Usually sealer is used on new bare wood just to seal the grain, but paint will do the same thing. Always use an oil or alkyd base paint on the topsides, it doesn't have to be Marine, on the bottom use a decent antifouling bottom paint. If the old paint is in decent shape just rough it up a bit before you paint over it. Good luck with your "new" old boat. Feel free to ask questions as needed------gary

question: I have a 1964, 31' Richardson and am having problems finding a finish for my deck and cabin top. The original covering is canvas and a rubbery coat. Because of peeling I removed the finish coat of paint last summer and repainted using a "West Marine" polyurathane topcoat.
Looked fine until colder weather (28 to 50 degree) hit this winter. I notice cracking and splitting of my topcoat. The boat is moored in the weather at a marina on Orcas Island, Wa. How were these boats originally finished? What paint to use today? Suggestions? HELP!
Thanks, Gus

Gus;
I think the problem is you used a modern product over a traditional one. I would go back to good old oil based paints. Some of the new high tech. products are pretty good but they are real sensitive to application conditions and have compatibility problems. Hope this helps--------------gary.

question: Gary,
My name is Rufus. I have a 1975 42ft Hatteras convertible with the dark teak interior. I would like to lighten the interior. What are your sugestions?.

Rufus:
Nice boat, but all that teak can make it pretty dark down below. As much as I like teak, visually a little goes a long way. I prefer white or light color surfaces such as ceilings and bulkheads highlighted with teak edging and trim. The easiest way to accomplish this is simply to paint these surfaces. A little white paint goes a long way to brighten things up. Bleaching the teak would be a momentous task with little improvement. Wipe the teak down with acetone before painting. Have fun---gary.

..I have a small wood boat I built and I am in the final fairing and sanding of my west epoxy coating I put on it. The boat will be used for duck hunting and will travel in shallow places therefore the bottom is a concern to me. I would like to get a scratch resistant paint at a reasonable cost for the bottom. I will be using a trailer and the boat will not be left in the water so the anti-fouling paints are really not an option as they require the boat to be in the water. I am just looking for a real tough paint and primer to use on this boat.
Thanks. Matt
.

Matt;
Well, since you don't have to worry about antifouling paint, you should just go with a hard paint that is used on the topsides of Boats. Interlux makes a Brightside enamel monopoxy which is good but your best bet may be to call the West System people and see what they reccommend. Congratulations on building your own boat, no easy task whatever the size-------------------------gary

Thanks Gary. I have contacted West, but I think I will do what you suggest. I was looking for other options. I am really considering putting down a layer of woven roven on the bottom and up the sides about 3 inches and then covering that with a good latex primer. I can still do that while the epoxy is not cured. Upon curing, the amine blush becomes a problem. I have some glass cloth on the bottom already with 4 layers of epoxy on top of that, but I am concerned nonetheless.
Thanks for replying.
Matt

Matt:
Unless you figure the bottom of the boat is going to take a beating and needs more protection, I wouldn't add any more glass to it, plus you would be adding a lot of weight. Don't use a water based latex over epoxy or polyester resin. You either have to use an epoxy paint or use a fiberglass primer before you use an alkyd or oil based paint. Also remember, you can always over think a problem and you can always undo or redo what doesn't work----------have fun----g

Gary
I am planning on using a good quality of latex on the entire boat. Again it is a 15 ft, used for duck hunting only. It will not be left in the water and it will be cleaned each time. Furthermore, the entire boat will be coated with epoxy so the epoxy will be the water barrier. I think latex will do just fine. I am not too concerned about the looks and I think the more I use it, the more weathered and better looking it will be. I am building a very wide rub rail on the top of the gunnel to accomodate stainless steel bases onto which I will attach a blind that will fold up and fold down. That will allow me to hunt out of the boat.

After I sent the note, I got to thinking about the weight too. I heard your email come in and was just about to say to heck with the woven. I will fair the holes (small holes after sanding) flow coat with a thin coat of epoxy and put on a good latex primer. I want to complete the hull with primer before I flip it and begin work on the inside.

I have been searching for a way to determine the water line. If you have any suggestions, I am open to them. Also, if you have any suggestions on my painting solution (latex) I am open to those too. West says latex is just fine when applied either this way or after sanding and washing the amine blush off.

I plan on putting a mud motor on here too. I am including 2 shots of the boat before I began all the epoxy surface work and had on the bottom (June 2002). I actually scrapped the first one I did because I did not spread it correctly and I had large gaps between the gunnels and the floor. So this is my 2nd attempt. Then hunting season got in the way.. It does not look much different now except the bottom is on and it is all sanded. I am glad that the sanding is over for now. whewwwwwwwwwww. Upon fairing, I will have spot sanding to do.

If you have any ideas on using something other than plywood for seats, I would like to hear those too. I am thinking about the blue insulation they put into the sides of houses when they are framing them, R13 I think is the factor on it. I was going to use that for a core and fiberglass and epoxy it into seats.
Thanks,
Matt

Matt:
Latex paint is water based and will not stick well to West system or any other resin, they are incompatable. I would just eyeball the waterline until after the boat is in the water, then you can mark the true waterline. Reinforced blue board seats would work fine. All sounds good-----g

Gary
I have heard differently, and it took a while to convince me. Right now I have a board at home I have covered with latex primer and latex paint as a test. It is looking OK, but I was gonna sand it down and see what happened. I think the oil based paints are probably best too. Will an oil based primer work as well or should I just bite the bullet and go with an epoxy primer? The epoxy primer might also serve as a flow coat too right? Brand suggestions would be appreciated. The Interlux enamel is a suggestion you had, but that was for a paint.
Thanks,
Matt

Matt:
You'd have to put your test board under water and out in the weather to see what will happen---Epoxy paint, although a little more demanding to use, would be my choice and yes it would act as a flow coat----------g

OK, I will go with the epoxy paint. Again, I was holding off because although I was "convinced" I was never totally convinced so that is why I did the test.
I think the epoxy primer is a better choice.
Thanks, take it easy.
Matt.question: I have a 41' Island Trader sailboat with wooden mast. These were just taken down for inspection and repaint. What do I repaint with. when I sand off the old do I seal first then paint?

Hi;
Nice boat. First of all, if the existing paint isn't that bad just lightly sand it and repaint with a high gloss enamel. If you do take off the paint down to bare wood it is advisable to use a wood sealer then a primer then 2 final coats of gloss sanding in between coats. Good luck-------------g

Hi, I found your site on "ask jeeves" it is a very interesting & informative site.

I have recently purchased a 32' marine ply fly bridge motor cruiser. It is a sea boat that for the last two years has been used on a river by it`s last owner. I am at present having her shipped by road down to me, where I will spend the next few months repainting etc ready to put her back on my mooring on the estuary for sea use next season.

The previous owner gave her a "one day" repaint of the hull, and cabin as a quick make over, for cosmetic appearance with gloss paint.

There are a few bubbles along the hull in the paint which I think are caused by lack of preparation before painting. If you press the bubbles they burst and oil from the paint comes out. ( the ply behind is hard).

What I would like to know is what type of paint should I use on the hull and cabin above the water line.

And should I use a specific type of anti foul paint below the water or are the all pretty much the same.

The topside paint you would use depends on what is presently on there. Sounds like an oil or alkyd based paint, so you should use the same but I suggest you go to the Interlux website (http://www.yachtpaint.com/) and investigate their products. Also check out their bottom paints. There are basically 2 types, one is soft and ablative, i.e.. it slowly sluffs off and is preferred by those who use their boats often, like commercial fishermen, and a hard usually vinyl based paint preferred by pleasure boaters. Usually the more you pay the more protection you get. Also, since the boat is returning to a salt water environment, you must use some sacrificial zincs to protect the underwater metal parts such as the shaft(s) and rudder(s). Have fun with your new old boat----gary

I wonder if I could ask for some advice, I have stripped my boat of all paint and have filled cracks with epoxy. I have painted boat with preserver x 3 coats, yacht primer x 4 coats, 1x coat pre-coat and two coats of top coat. but my boat continues to crack while I am working is there any thing I can do or am I doing something wrong?

Seems like the wood is continuing to dry out and the checks in the grain that were swollen closed are now opening up. You have to work faster and get it back in the water or turn up the humidity, moisture content, of your work space. Getting a glass like finish on a wood boat is damn near impossible unless you have complete control over temperature and humidity. I usually settle for a 25ft paint job ie. stand back 25 feet from the boat and if it looks good, job is done---gary

I fogot to get your advise on the cracks they are about 2mm wide, should I fill them in? if yes what type of filler can I use should it be a flexible sealer. Or should I put the boat back into the water and try to get them to swell closed?

If the cracks are below the waterline just use some roof patch tar which will be squeezed out as the wood swells. Tar will work as well on the topside cracks but is a bit sloppy so a polysulfide like sikalex will work better and also remains pliable.The roof patch is a lot cheaper-------g

question: Gary, I have cleaned the bilge on my 1965 Chris-Craft 18' Super Sport ski boat and was intending on painting the bilge with over the counter oil based red paint........can I still swell the boat before going to the lake by filling with water as we have always done or will the oil based paint seal the wood pores?????? thanks, mike

I've painted many bilges on planked boats and never had a swelling
problem. I suggest using a alkyd or oil based porch & floor paint, very
tough and resilient--------g

thanks for the timely reply............my wife and I were arguing over this situation and looks like I FINALLY won one...............

question: Hi Gary,
I have a triple skin (diagonally planked) Mullet boat (in New Zealand). Lately blisters have appeared under the paint on the topsides and I have wooded and repainted the planking in parts but the problem persists. I am inclined to remove and reseat the (teak) rubbing strips and wonder if there is any advice you can give on 1) fastening method - bedding screws in epoxy? - silicone or epoxy bead under strip? 2) maintaining the water-tightness of their join to the hull - I have left the teak bare in the past 3) any way to check the integrity of the middle planks without tearing the whole structure apart?
Many thanks,
Chris.

Chris;
As you probably are aware, blisters in topside paint can be caused by
different factors, including incompatible coats of paint,like alkyd base
over water base primer, bad wood prep and moisture. I assume you feel that
moisture is getting in between the planks and working its way to the surface
and that the moisture is coming from an improper seal between the hull and
the rubbing strips. Worth a try to see if that is it. I wouldn't use an
epoxy for bedding but rather a polysulfide caulking ( 3M or Sikaflex) under
the rail and coating the screws.
The integrity of the laminated planks is best done by sounding the areas of
concern. Tapping with a wood mallet or plastic handle of a screwdriver will
locate any areas of separation, good areas will have a sharp sound bad areas
will sound dead or vibrate. Good luck with your project, ask more if
needed-------------gary

question: Gary: My friend is replacing the garboards on a 26' 1965 Pacemaker with mahogony 1" planking (carvel). I have advised a snug fitted garboard, he wants to leave a 1/8 space on each side of the plank for expansion. I advocated expansion won't be a problem and the planks should be snug fit. Whose correct? lumber is dry, boating area N.E. summers ,slow speed boat.

On a carvel plank that is to be caulked with cotton the inside edge
should be tight while the outside edge slightly gapped forming a v to
receive the cotton. The only exception being if the boat had been high and
dry for a very long time and the planks have shrunk from drying out, then a
loose fit is in order. Also Mahogany swells very little. So, all in all,
you're right.---------g

I have a wooden cutter (30'). Mahogany planking on sawn oak frames. Planks are fastened with galvanised iron boat nails, also called dump nails here in UK. The planks are splined and of course she is carvel. She has been out of the water for too long (10 years). She was built in 1968 at a fishing boatbuilding yard. There is now some slight opening up between the planks. Some of the nails are starting to push out the little mahogany plugs that cover the heads. And in one place amidships just below the waterline where a plank is butt jointed against a double frame the plank end (amidships) is lifting away from the frame by about 1/4 inch. (i.e. where they have used two short planks that are half the length of the boat the end of one is lifting at the midships joint)

Others say put the boat in the water first and see how she takes up and only then put in new dump nails. Or should I fill any spilts and openings with a soft putty of linseed oil, paint and window putty before launching as some suggest?

What do you advise? And by the way should one predrill the planks to take the nails? Should one also drill a pilot hole into the frame?

The other point is that the deadwoods between keel and rudder (oak) have quite big splits in along the grain. Some say dont worry - it will take up when she is back in the water. But should I leave the splits bare, or coat them with something?

Best advice you got was to put her in the water and let her swell up
for a couple weeks to see what you got. Those proud butts will have to be
renailed at some point, pre drill both the plank and rib with undersize bit,
Open grain on keel will swell closed but any area on the bottom, including
them, that will leak badly should be filled with a roof patch tar which will
squish out as the joint swells. Have fun, she sounds like an interesting
boat. Send a pic if you have one.----gary

Wow that was quick, as well as rather encouraging!

There are thin longitudinal cracks along the plank joints (ie where the
splines are) in some parts of the top sides. Should those also be just left
alone til after some exposure to the seawater and weather? It rains a lot
in S Ireland! Currently everything is quite dry and I sort of worry that
getting everything all wet and salty will hasten the chances of more
fastenings starting to rust! Maybe this is mistaken feelings? Perhaps a
boat like this has salt just about everywhere already, but for many years
when in regular use she never opened up at all and so I felt the fastenings

were well buried and fairly safe from salt and wet, putting her into the
water like this will surely get salt water into all the places that are
open.. or do I worry uneccesarily?!!.
For sure the bottom has many more open plank joints where the splines run
(long thin cracks that you could get a knife blade into) and of course
those are going to soak up lots of seawater. Maybe that is just how it has
to be to swell up. But what I understand, that apart from the deadwoods
where you say to put roof repair tar, you recommend put nothing on or in the
cracks, just put her in and let her swell up and then decide the next step
based on the results?
Perhaps you can elaborate on the possible results and next steps?
kind regards and thanks,

I would fill the open seams on the bottom with roof patch
tar just to prevent her from taking on too much water. This will not inhibit
swelling of those seams. There is very little you can do to prevent further
rusting of the fastenings. You can prevent surface bleeding of a fastening
by pulling the wood plug, clean the head of the fastenings with a piece of
rigging wire in a electric drill and coat with epoxy before you replug,.
Salt water is the best friend of the wood in a wood boat. Once in the water
I would wash down the decks and topsides with salt water regularly. When
refastening chosen areas I would consider using stainless screws which are
easier to use than nails and would produce no electrolysis with her existing
fastenings. One of the reasons for not "fixing" a wood boat that has
severely dried out is that you do not want to make permanent any changes in
hull shape or alignment of parts that has resulted from drying out on the
hard. So by refloating we allow her to become her old self before we repair
her.---gary

It looks like she had a knock from a post or pointed rock at that frame two planks below this butt as that plank has some damage on its upper edge and its lower edge was looking slightly sprung. Well I did as you suggested and the butt pulled in ok with a couple of GI 2.5inch screws and I also pulled in the edge of the lower plank with a screw.

A contributing reason for the sprung butt is that the builders had fastened it onto a double frame but got their alignment a bit wrong and the two nails were both in the slight gap between the doubled frames! So not much grip!

Someone suggested (due to the expense of hauling out again and again relaunching) that one could still go with your trowlable roof tar in all the seams and open deadwoods etc as you suggest, but then prime her and antifoul and then launch and let her take up and if she takes up ok then no need to lift out for priming... would take a bit longer perhaps to take up but would save quite a bit of money on the yard. does this sound mad or reasonable to you??!

On other below water line planking some of the planks do have softening around the nails. Does one just live with this for the time being, the planking actually looks very good otherwise? (I am stripping her back pretty much to bare wood as so much of the bottom has the crackly black antifouling - it took me a long day with a scraper to do half the hull which is actually faster than i expected but i will have to go over it another day with the circular grinder with soft pad and 60grit as you suggest. )

Well done, thanks for the photos, looks good. Soft wood around fastening caused by iron rot (from rust). I would splash each one with some penetrating epoxy (gitrot) which will harden it up a bit, but more of a psychological fix than otherwise.. No problem leaving her in if all is well, normal ablating bottom paint will stick fine to the roof patch tar, but not sure if vinyl will.You can mix a little bottom paint with the tar to make applying the tar a little easier. You are a good steward, she will treat you well as long as you respect her age ie.no hurricane sailing.--------gary

I'm getting close to sealing my seams on Nordic Star (double planked mahogany). Some of the seams have large gaps especially where the keel meets the hull. In order not to use an entire can of sealer on one seam I drove in okum on the large seams and cotton on the smaller seams with still plenty of room for a good bead of sealer. I also used okum on the big seam you can see on the keel. Is that the appropriate method? Now for my next issue below is a picture of my stem just below the waterline my idea is to remove the old galvanized carriage bolt and insert a new one and try to suck it up, I'm a little afraid I might split the wood. Do you have any good ideas on how to fix that stem issue. Thanks in advance for all your help.

What you have done is fine but much of the open spacing is from the wood shrinking from drying out and much of it will close up once back in the water and all you do now will just keep the boat from taking on too much water as she swells. This is true of your stem as well. I would not try to close the seam with your new bolt but just snug it up with some cotton and seam compound in the joint and on the next haul-out tighten it a bit.For future reference the wood, called deadwood, below the planks are solid pieces and one can just put tar in those seams without cotton or oakum and the tar will just squeeze out when the wood swells. Nice job Kirk.---gary

question: Hi Gary, Enjoy reading your web site and would like to ask you some questions regarding a restoration I am doing a 1958 Islander 24. It is hull #4 of 9 built and is constructed of cold molded triple diagonal planked mahogany. The hull is just over an inch thick. I'm doing what I would consider to be a stage one resoration (servicable with all components replaced or rebuilt but not necessarily show quaility. My questions is that over the years, the planks having gone through many cycles of expansion and contraction and have seemed to have lost some of thier elasticity. I've had the boat in the yard for six weeks to fair the hull. It appears everytime I think I am done with the getting the hull back in tip top shape, it continues "to work" and when I come back the next day expecting to start the painting process, I notice new cracks between the planks or bulges in what was just one day ago an area that was perfectly faired. What would your recommendations be for fill ing these small cracks between the planks and should I be concerned that the instability I am seeing may be caused by the interior planks having apx as much as an 1/8th" gap between them that could possibly be letting in more moisture the the hull and hence the demensional instabilitiy that I'm seeing.

I am afraid you have entered the twilight zone of cold molded hulls.
Although the initial construction method seems sensible, the combination of
characteristically unlike materials, wood and epoxy, has led to many
mysteries in aging hulls.So basically I don't know what the hell is going on
and neither does anyone else. I think your analysis is as good as you'll get
and the easiest solution would be to lower your standards a little more,
50ft away looks good paint job rather than 10ft. Many of these type hulls
were glassed over to further prevent movement but unless one literally laid
up a glass hull over the existing structure I don't think its worth it on an
older boat. In the early 60's the Japanese were making some hulls that used
similarly diagonally layered planks but mechanically fastened them together
with copper rivets and no glue just bedding compound plus canvas.
Interestingly, over time, these hulls displayed none of the problems of the
glued hulls. Good luck with your efforts----ps.-- any epoxy fairing
compound will be fine for filling cracks ---g

Hi Gary, thanks for the info. Ironically, my boat was glassed when it was built. On the hull, it is glassed from the keel to 2" above the waterline. The top of the house and the decks are also glassed. This was done at the time of manufacturer and not as a poorly executed after thought by some well intentioned but ill advised boater. Since the boat is already partially glassed, I've been asked by freinds why not just go ahead and glass the hull after I'm done fairing it out. I suppose my hesitance is that this particular boat has quite a history and as such, I'm trying to keep it as original as possible. Right down to keeping the kermath sea twin in prime operating condition. I've contacted the people at "the rot doctor" and essentially was advised to treat the hull with CPES prior to painting. I believe that since the planks on the interior of the hull have up to an 1/8" gap, there is probably a bit more atmospheric water vapor entering the hull from the interior than would normally be the case. What would you recommed for treating and filling these gaps on the hull interior?

Normally I am against using CPES over good wood but with your problem it
may help.On the inside seams, a poly caulk like sikaflex would work. You
want something with flex but not an adhesive like 3M 520-----g

Hi Gary, Ok,sikaflex on interior planks and I'm assuming it's paint friendly. I'm using Interlux Toplac, single part polyurethane for the exterior hull and irrrespective of the shock of some, I'm painting the it black. The boat is in southern ca. with an average temp of 62 degrees (temperate climate) because of the high reflectivity of the finish, I've checked the hull temperature during the hottest periods of the day and it is cooler than the pale somewhat oxidized petit carribbean blue that was formerly on it. She also is kept under a well ventilated full cover when not in use. Was planning on using on oil based paint on the interior however, to let the wood breath. I've heard that wayne ettel is a proponet of putting expoxy on interior surfaces to keep the wood dry. I suppose I'm on the fence on that one since I already have the polyurethane on the exterior of the hull. It would be nice finished bright, but with the seams being caulked, I don't think it would be all that attractive. Do you see any problems with my approach.

Basic approach OK, but a black hull in that climate, no mater the paints
reflectability, will heat up and dry out the wood , plus black shows up all
imperfections. Go white---cool and hides imperfections. But your boat, your
choice, then I can say "told you so"-----g

I'm still working on Nordic Star the 36ft trawler I'm getting ready
to replace some planks, my question is, should I make the tolerances
between the planks as tight as I can. Some existing planks seem to
have a very close fit and some have a slight space between them wide
enough to take caulking. Do I need to leave room between the new
planks for expansion or fit them tight?
Thanks in advance for your help, more pictures to come.

Glad you are still at it. If the plank seams are caulked with cotton and
seam compound you need to have a beveled seam< with the inside edges closer
together that the outer ones.This allows the cotton to be pounded in without
driving it through. If the planks are not caulked then close fits are
important. Topside planks will swell less than bottom planks so leave a
little more gap on the bottom seams----------g

question: Hi Gary, I am not new to boats but I am to wooden boats. I am thinking of purchasing a 30 plus foot owens which appears to be in great shape and have been told by some that it is. It is double planked. the boat has been out of the water for about 8 months. I noticed that the planks towards the bow under the water line are cupping.. Am I looking at a serious problem? Anything you could offer would be much appreciated..Thanks Barry

Probably nothing serious but I would pull a couple fastenings in
that area and make sure they still have holding power. Also check for any
soft wood at plank ends stem and stern and at the upper corners of the
transom. These are common rot areas caused by fresh water intrusion. Have
fun with your new old boat------gary

Hi Gary, I forgot to ask you in my previous question what are some of the
causes of planks cupping? Thank you once again. BarryHi Gary, I forgot to ask you in my previous question what are some of the causes of planks cupping? Thank you once again. Barry

A plank can cup either concavely or convexly depending on the
type wood and the cause. Convex cupping usually occurs from the plank being
too tight from overcaulking and having no room to swell, concave usually
results from fastening failure.-------g

I came across this web site while researching a 45ft Chris Craft Catalina (1953 vintage) that found it's way into my driveway .

My son decided I would have all the time in the world to restore it , while he's going to school in Australia.

It's a massive double plank mahogany,twin engine dinosaur. The hull has been out of the water for eight-plus years .She's well dried and dry rotted. The superstructure has considerable dry rot . Cabin sides,particularly around the windows are being rebuilt.The hull however, is basically very sound .We have completely gutted the interior in preparation for replumbing as well as rewiring .I'm not the least bit phased by the interior work , by concerns lie below the waterline . The two longest planks , right at the chine have to be replaced and the chine logs are surface rotted.I suspect they need replacing - unless I can but meterial above and below the existing logs ans fasten the new planks accordingly. I'd like your advice on that please .

there's one more curious item I want to mention . In the bottom , are two large metal pLates, perhaps 30 inches by 72 inches running parallel to the keel.These are nailed into the bottom and not caulked or sealed in any way . I can't tell if these are perhaps bonding material or just a jury-rigged patch to cover some leaky planking . I'm reluctant to rip them off without understanding why they are there. I can't find any connecting wire inside the hull, so I tend to discount the bonding theory .

Amazing how those old wooden boats just appear in the driveways of
those who will treat them kindly. Quite a job you have taken on, I salute
you. Sounds like you pretty much know what you have to do. The question of
the chine log replacement really depends on if the rot has weakened the
structure or is just cosmetic. Be that it is a high stress area I would be
reluctant to do just a patch job instead of replacement if needed
Unfortunately with the metal plates, the only way to figure out why they are
there is to take them off. My guess would be your guess, patches for leaky
areas. Let me know what you find and send some photos as you
progress-------gary

question: Gary, I have enjoyed reading though your Q&A section and hope you can give me some advice. I have a 31' Monterey Clipper, built as a yacht by Cheoy Lee of 1.25" x 1.5" mahogany strips. The strips are coved and edge-nailed, and I think glued. She has been ashore for 3 years and is very dry. The seams have opened. The prior owner, who never had her in the water, started a messy job of paying the seams with some type of adhesive caulk, which I assume has to come out, and the seams filled with seam compound. The largest opening is the width of a dime, many are just cracks in the paint. I doubt I'll be able to get paint in the seams to prime them. I guess the other option is the reglue the seams, but I am wary of epoxy on these strips, which will want to swell. I'd appreciate any advice. Sam

I like those boats. Usually the strips are always glued as well as nailed
and often fiberglassed over so the wood doesn't expand and contract. The
concept being you end up with a very solid lightweight structure that has
very little flex and requires a minimum of interior support. The ideal
solution for your problem would be to saw a curf in the open seams and fill
with a epoxy and fiberglass over the whole hull. Short of that, and much
less work, you can clean out the open seams and fill with the 3m polysulfide
5200 which behaves like a glue but remains flexible so the wood can still
swell. Good luck-------g

Finally finished the bulwarks, now I'm chasing rot on the foredeck. I
removed the fiberglass that was on the deck and discovered a
traditional teak deck. I removed the teak and now I'm down to 3/4 in.
plywood. Some of it is badly rotted so I'm replacing it where necessary. My plan is to put 3/8 in. plywood over the 3/4 to take the place of the teak deck and then use a product from the rot doctor to
water proof that. Can 3/4 in cdx plywood be used to make the repairs
to the rotted deck instead of marine plywood? Someone told me that
exterior construction grade plywood uses the same glues as marine
ply, is that right? Here are some progress pics. I will email some
pics of the deck area next time.
Thanks for your help, Kirk

Looking good Kirk. Nice to be putting together rather than taking
apart. It is true that all plywood uses water proof glue but all but marine
and cabinet grade use fillers in some of the layers instead of solid wood
and do have come voids which allow moisture to develop and do not have as
many layers. On parts of the boat that are easily accessible and not
structural, like the bulwarks, using it is OK, but in areas that are
structural and not easily replaceable, like the deck, it is worth the extra
bucks to go marine or cabinet grade.----- be careful, keep it up and you'll
finish and have to find another project.For many of us, it is the process we
love.------gary

question: I'm currently repairing my 36 ft trawler Nordic Star. I'm replacing some planks and refastening where necessary, also I have redesigned the bulwarks in the forward section. I decided to eliminate the inside bulwarks where they meet the forward deck. This way no water can collect in the encased bulwarks which was a source for rot. The frames now will be showing. I will paint them to match the deck and I think it will give the boat a bit of a work boat look which I think is nice. While the boat is out of the water I will also do necessary work on the hull. This is a double planked design so the gaps between the planks are pretty tight. When reading about caulking planked boats apparently the planks are tapered. The gaps between my planks seem to be straight (not tapered). Do I caulk the joints using cotton or oakum and then seam sealer such as 3M 5300 or just seam sealer? What I'm cleaning out of the seams appears to be dried out sealer of some sorts. Thanks for your!
terrific web site, I'm learning a lot. I would like to send you some pictures, how can I co that. kirk

Pics would be great--just attach them to an email---if not digitized,
have them scanned first. If the seams are not beveled cotton is not intended
and without the bevel to set the cotton against, would be useless. Use a
regular seam compound not a polysulfide like 5200, which is more like glue
and impossible to remove. Interlux makes a brown for underwater and a white
for the topsides.I like what you are doing with her and look forward to some
pics--------Thanks for the kudos on the site--------gary

Here are some pictures. Chasing a lot of rot in the bulwarks. Thanks
for your quick response. You and your website are such a terrific
source of information. Thanks again, KIrkHi Gary
Here are some pictures. Chasing a lot of rot in the bulwarks. Thanks
for your quick response. You and your website are such a terrific
source of information. Thanks again, KIrk

Thanks for the pics, nice boat. If the bulwarks weren't so necessary to
the sheer line of the boat, I would say just cut them off and put up a
stainless rail but they are important.That said and to avoid setting up the
same bad rot conditions, I would plank up the bulwark leaving a 1-2 inch
space in-between each plank and either do the same on the inside or as you
plan just leave the frames exposed on the inside. This allows for good air
circulation and an occasional good wash down with salt water which kills the
rot spores. Now send a pic when your done-------g

I have decided to us plywood on the bulwarks and restore the boat to
its original design, although your suggestion on using planks was
interesting and I gave it some thought, but I had already bought the
plywood. Today was a very productive day I was able to spend ten
hours uninterrupted and reached a milestone, today the first section
of bulwarks was reinstalled. So instead of chasing rot and doing more
demo I actually did some construction. It was an emotional boost, the
boat is starting to go back together, It's a good feeling. I'm
thinking ahead and painting seems to be occupying a lot of my
thoughts. So here is the $64.000 question. Polyurethane or enamel on

the hull? Because the boat is stored on private property I have the
option to spray. Everyone seems to have a different opinion on this
subject. What's yours? Gary, I'm going to thank you in advance for
your contribution the DIY boat guys, I hit pay dirt with your
website. Thanks for sharing your expertise. I'm going to take my
camera with me tomorrow so progress pictures will follow this email.

Nice to hear from you again and glad you are back on the project.
These rebuilds can get overwhelming and a bit unmanageable at times but just
showing up eventually gets the job done. With painting I stick pretty much
with oil or alkyd based enamels because of their versatility in a variety of
conditions whereas the polyurethane and epoxy paints require fairly
controlled atmosphere to perform properly although the results can be quite
impressive.Look forward to more pics. Thanks for the kudos on the site, it
makes me feel useful-----gary

The project is progressing well. I had a week off of work so I got a
lot done. Today I installed the first layer of the final piece of
bulwarks for the starboard side. As you can see by the pictures I
have created the scuppers. And as you can see I have reformed the
stem in the area where the bulwarks will attach. Now my thoughts are
staring to focus on the reinstallation of the rub rail. A friend of
mine who is an expert on cold moulding suggests I epoxy the rub rail
to the hull. I know that is not a classical approach to wooden boat
repair, but it sounds like it might be a good idea. What do you
think? Also while I have your attention I'm having a hard time
finding Fillippine mahogany for the plank replacement (above
waterline) I have been told VG Doug Fir is a good substitute. Do you
agree?

Looking good , real good. Vertical grain fir or spruce makes a fine
planking material. I would not recommend epoxying a rub rail for the very
nature of a rub rail is that it is somewhat sacrificial and should be easy
to replace. Mechanical fasteners work best for this job. Keep up the good
work. -----g

I'm going to take your advise and use the marine ply for the deck.
In a previous email you suggested that I do not cold mold epoxy the
rub rail to the boat, I agree. So, what bedding material do you
suggest I use as a bedding compound for the rub rail? I'm concerned
about water getting in behind the rub rail so I thought I still might
put an epoxy fillet on the top edge of the rail. In the event that
any rail need to be replaced in the future only a small amount of
grinding will be necessary to remove the fillet. Updated pics coming
soon.
Thanks for all your help Gary

The only true bedding compound I know of is Dolfnite , available in
marine stores. It stays pliable which makes removal easy. The polysulfides
like 3m's 5200 behave like a glue, and tar roof patch is excellent but
sloppy and hard to deal with in high use areas.Dolfinite's the best.-------g

It's me again, I'm ready to resurface the deck. The original fore deck starts out with 3/4 ply then teak slats and then later someone fiberglassed over the teak. I removed the fiberglass and teak and now the 3/4 ply is ready for a layer of 1/2 in. ply. The 3/4 was pretty bad in places so I replaced where necessary. I feel like I should put something between the old 3/4 and the new 1/2 in. ply. Do you think the lagging compound that you talk about on the website would be appropriate to put between the layers of ply? Also how do you make a nonskid deck using epson salt?

P.S. If you ever find yourself on the West Coast please look me up I would be honored to take you out on the boat and show you the beautiful Southern California coast and Channel Islands.

Good informing photos. Make sure any areas left behind that have any rot are treated with antifreeze to kill any rot spores before they are covered over. In between the plywood layers I would use the wet dry roof cement , it prevents condensation and seals the 2 layers together. The lagging compound is best used on the deck surface in conjunction with a fiberglass screen, bug screen works fine. First paint a coat of lagging cut 25% with water on the new deck wood, let dry. Cut your screen to size and lay it into wet full strength lagging, let dry and add coats until screen is all filled in , 3 to 4 coats. To make the non skid surface, after the 1st coat of paint, tape out your edges for water runoff, put down another coat of paint liberally sprinkling Epson salt into the wet paint.Make a shaker for the salts out of a can with holes in the end. After that is dry wash it thoroughly with fresh water, dissolving all the salt leaving behind the dimples it created, then paint one more just paint coat over that surface. Provides great non skid surface, gentle on your feet and kind to your knees when kneeling and easy to redo when it wears thin.

Thanks for the invite, I've sailed down from SF a couple of times going by the Islands but never stopping by for a look, so If I get out that way I'll let you know.------g

I forgot to mention that when using lagging compound you must add some mold inhibitor to it. Years ago there was a lagging compound called Aerbol which had the inhibitor in it and was used widely on boats especially in California and Florida. Aerbol is no longer on the market and with all the new high tech surfacing compounds, it is difficult to even find a plain lagging adhesive compound.I found one resource that you should contact to find a distributor where you are located.--g

question: How best would one go about a removal, refit or replacement of a mahogany garboard strakes on a carvel planked lobsterhull?

It can be fairly straightforward or a real pain in the butt depending on a variety of variables, but the basics are first removing all the caulking {including the cotton} from all the seams of the garboard, second remove the fastenings holding the plank on, third remove the plank and use it as a template for the new one, third fill the fastening holes in the frames and keelson with glued in wood plugs, fourth, cut the new plank slightly proud and bevel the seams for caulking, install the plank, steaming it first if need be. Plug screw holes and caulk the seams with cotton and underwater seam compound.

At each of these stages you will no doubt run into difficulties and obstacles that will have to be overcome with creativity and prayer but that is what makes it fun. Ask more specifics as needed--------gary

The stopwater goes transversely through the below water line joint on the stem which usually falls beyond the forward end of the garboard but occasionally one must adapt the garboard to it. If it falls under the garboard , and since it is usually fashioned from a soft wood which can get "tired" after many swellings and dryings out, I would replace it when the old plank is removed.-------g

when would you join me in Newcastle (Riverside Boat Co) for this adventure!!?!?!?!?

Thanks for the invite but as you know, when spring breaks , projects galore take over, plus you can handle it. One question I should ask is why does the garboard need replacement? Often they just need refastening and recaulking or a lead patch properly placed.-------g

I know about the enormity of projects and in no way expected you. Was kidding.
It is correct that it is re-bedding & refastening the planks is needed and attention to the stopwater must be addressed.
More thank likely the planks are sound as Norman Hodgdon chose his mahogany well. There is no plank hull rot.
I reefed the seams full midship last year both sides.
In reefing I removed lots of nasty smelling cotton, compound and some wood that shaved off with the reefing hook.
Then the estimable Paul Bryant of Riverside Boat Company re-caulked w/ cotton and compound.
Yet leaks redeveloped.
Gotta believe full refastening of garboars here is needed.
I can never see leaks other than weeps along the keel in the bilge.
Weeps can produce lots of water I know but where I can not see from aboard is the forward bilge

Actually, I am a bit jealous, I like that plank work. I see by your synopsis that you have been dealing with this over some time, but you have not yet refastened these areas. The dark smelly cotton is usually fuel soaked which breaks down the cotton making it no longer an effective gasket. Plus , it sounds like the planks are working too much and need that refastening which ideally should be done with reefed seams but can be effective without that effort. Nice looking boat, sweet lines-----g

I have owned a 68' Far East Yachts- H28 for several years. She is double planked african mahogany over yacal ribs. She has brought us much fun while we have had her . While there was much "Defered" maintainence due, It was mostly cosmetic as Freyja was very structurally sound until. The other evening I got tangled in Lobster pot lines after dark under power. With a fair breeze and solid swell running I swiftly made way down on rocks before I could get sail up. Freyja bounced on the breakwater for about a half hour before Harbor patrol was able to grapple her off rocks. She pulled free and sat at water line but began sinking after about ten minutes of towing.

She sits in a reputable "wooden boat" yard and that my be part of my discouragement. They have told me she is a total and will require well over $125,000.00 to bring her back,Lol. Here's the thing, She's 40 years old bulit like a brick shit house. I paid under 7k for her in an auction a while back. The insurance is gonna give me approx 12k. I didn't have replacement value ins. unfortunately. Boatyard suggests I take the check , cut the chain and go buy a new boat. I find this somewhat peculiar considering their appreciation of wood boats. They are suggesting she be sold for salvage. I must question this and am afraid I'll walk away and two weeks later she'll be under new yard worker ownership undergoing plank replacing.

Her damage. He took most on starboard side.I would send pics but ,my camera isn't agreeing with me since salt water bath. I will get some to you. Most major - impact to front starboard below water line by rock, cracked outer and inner planks (3) Clear through, cracked rib 1 or more.its small one 1 sq 8" area seemingly sound all around.

additional damage starboard midship looks like boulder tried to peek in and then hull pushed back.No remaining visible hole through just visible crack in planks and cracked rib or two. slight impact on port bow below waterline, looks like it could be epoxied and caulked then painted. also lost that barn door rudder. At this point she was holding water in,lol, just below the puncture. Keel looks solid just scraping to fore keel. bottom is where the pain is , beside 1' section of toerail and damage that stern rail took on saving boat topsides are the same as they were.

I have 5 summers in a boatyard from 15- 20 years old ,that was a long time ago. I am a general & plumbing contractor, many tools.

I was thinking of taking the insurance check minus a little for buying her back as salvage and then fixing her.

I would like to start by making her floatable. does pressuring her cracked ribs outward and then sistering new with epoxy and perhaps mechanically sound feasible?

With planking , should I remove the completely fractured ones back to or before the next sound rib? since shes double planked, horizontal outside and diagonal underneath do I stagger the locations where I cut the planks outer and inner and just and ribs at new joint locations?

I want her to be safe and sound. The boatyard is all for saving her if she's taken apart bit by bit. How do you determine when thats necessary because she sure feels solid. i don't want to sail her to Hawaii just out to the bouy:)

The H-28 is one of my favorite boats, a near perfect balance of form and function. She certainly sounds fixable, with time being the largest commodity needed. All your suggestions are doable with the exception of quick fix epoxy which I would only use for cosmetic repairs. I would try to replace the whole damaged rib, short of that, sister those damaged and the replaced planks should be as long as practical. The yard is no doubt being overly cautious. Send the photos and let me ask , where is she located now?---gary

After seeing her bounce on the rocks the way she did and now seeing actual damage

I am only more convinced of her integral strength. She is truly balanced and poised in heavy seas and weather. Eveyday I go by She looks more promising, The first day she was pulled things looked worse, hul was half filled and things were really hammered. Now that I have cleaned things up , drained her out and isolated the damages I feel more certain I will not let her go. The damages are very well accessible from inside one being under bunk amidship and other main damage is under v berth and good access as well.

I realize time being the biggest deal, The yard estimates it will take me 5 years trying to fix her myself. When they told me that I realized they don't know me very well. I really felt that was a scare tactic. When you see the pictures I think you will agree.

Is that Ventura Ca., somehow lobster traps and California don't mix, must be a Ventura in New England. It is a bit surprising the yard is so thoroughly negative, unless as you say, they want the boat. Wooden boats are built to be fixed, yours being a bit more complicated with the inner diagonal planks, but 5 years is ridiculous. You'll be sailing next summer-----g

Thanks again. You were right the first time. Ventura , Ca. And the pots didn't mix with my boat thats for sure. Suprisingly Potting is pretty big here.

They go for the california spiny lobster out here, No claws. there are at least 100 pots off the breakwater and all around the general area

The funny thing about the yard is they finished a H28 complete renovation last year, They know the boat. The manager seems like a real straight shooter and I trust him but I must say I am a little suprised he suggests scrapping her. His main point is that wood wears out 30-40 years and thats where I am. Sorry but in general the boat is solid like a rock, He doesn't really refer to the damage as the reasoning. He says he has seen people crumble to their knees , lose relationships and so forth trying to rebuild a wooden boat. I have looked around to see if possibly I could just cut the chain and buy another boat. In doing so I am realizing how much boat I already have. I think my first step, once insurance pays, will be to move her to a less expensive storage.

great site, Got 65' rigged 90 year old baltic ex fishing boat. Oak on oak 2" planks boat has a lot of history(used between Denmark/Sweden during WW2) Presently on the hard for a renail.The planking is in good condition, however in one particular place below the waterline has almost 1" gap.the oakum caulk had been driven into a light steel vee located on the inboard side of this planking . As I wish to retain the original oak planking I was thinking of splining this gap with cedar, stepped, tarred and screwed into position on the lower routed plank leaving the usual gap on top for caulking. What do you think and have you ever come across the use of light steel vee as described.

Interesting boat , send pics if you have any. Your plan sounds good and no, I have never heard of caulking to a steel V especially from the inboard side . Have fun with this wonderful classic. Ask more when needed-----gary

question: I have a 1961 36 ft. Chris Craft Sea Skiff and I am replacing some planks in the hull above the waterline that have rotted from leaking windows is 5200 OK to seal or bond the new planks with at the seems. Its a lap strake hull Thanks Ray

3m 101sealant is better for your purpose, 5200 acts like a very strong glue which eliminated the ease of any later repair------g

question: Gary - I am about to replace the planks over new marine plywood on the aft bottom of my 1970 Owens Aruba . I need a suitable bedding . You recomend Henry's roof tar? I have never seen or heard of this brand . Is it readily available? Also the boat had cotton in the seams. Which is easier wick or caulking cotton. After the seams are caulked with cotton what should I caulk over with . I was going to use roof mastic from Home Depot before I found your web site. Thanks, Bill from Michigan

I am not sure of the location of your fix or why there are planks over marine ply unless you are doing the Transom. Either way any brand roof patch tar will do for the bedding but for the seams you are better off with Interlux seam compound, white for topsides , brown for underwater. If the planks are tight, cotton string placed down the center of the seam is fine, but if the seam is wide and irregular you will have to use the loose stuff.-------g

question: Gary - I'm Bill with the 42'Owens Aruba , This boat has 19/32"thick x 5 3/16"wide mahogany planks over orginal 3/8" mahogany plywood from the keel to the chine then the plywood is 1/4" mahogany ply on the sides with 1/2" mahogany planks over. This was the last year they were built, 1970. The area I'm working on is from in front of the engine water intakes to the transom. I have about 20 planks 10' to 10 1/2' off each side of the keel. Ive been told Owens didn't build a hull this way. This is factory as you can tell the way the red colored caulk ozzed and dripped when the hull was upside down and the plywood was applied on the caulk.

I have never heard of that type of construction but that's what you got so that's what you have to deal with. I imagine it was an attempt to keep the hull light and strong.--------g

question: Gary - It's me Bill with the Owens again . The orginal bedding for the planks on to plywood was the canvas coated with "Thiokol" which looked like dried out window glazing when I removed it. The reason this project started was I had some rotted frames and punky plywood in the bottom. I think the frames or large bottom cross ribs rotted from no air circulation in the bottom behind the shaft tunnels I intend to remedy this . I have replaced all the bad ribs and cross members , the plywood is now marine 3/8" one coat each side of West epoxy and painted inside. This spring I am ready to replace the bottom planks many which came off and are still good ,all old screw holes plugged . After reading many of your suggestions I am not sure what to do about the bedding compound. Do you know if this Thiokol is still available? If not, the roof mastic spred in a thin layer should do the trick . Any other suggestions will be appreciated .

I have orginal sales brouchures from 1967 that say the boat was doubled and that the inter layer was 3/8" but they don't say it was plywood. Thanks , for your help and I enjoy the suggestions and advise you have given others. You have a great site. Bill

Thanks for the compliments. I don't believe Thiokol is still available but actually I think a thinned coat of the roof cement would do just as well. Sounds like you bit off a large project and are bringing it home. Congratulations-------g

question: HI Gary, I have finally found you again.Saw your column somewhere, didn't save the website and have been hunting for you and yr advice for the last couple of days.Reading many of your Qs & As I have learnt a lot but haven't spotted this query yet. I have just bought a damaged neglected do-up. Kinya is a 1964(ish) german built 37' mahogany carvel plank sloop. She must've made the builders proud enough to wear their plate: Matthiesen & Paulsen from Arnis/Schlei.(Bau nr.212 or 272).I Know nothing of her history except a couple of years ago she had broken her mooring in a storm, kissed a few yachts as she ventured `solo' up the estuary, unceremoniousy resting on a sandbar. Her full keel, and hull (apart from repairs) look fine even after her 14 month layup in the previous owners backyard(Obviously taken there immediatley after her mishap). Her hull had hardly opened and she only dribbled a little when I was forced to put her in the sea for a quick limp to her new home.!

Her mahogany planks seem solid except for where 2 planks (on both starboard and port above the garboard have been relpaced with kauri. They had also been caulked. The rest of the hull for what i can see, is double plank and the joins seem so tight(to my amateur eye) that I cannot imagine cotton or anything else fitting in the hairline joins other than the red coloured seam filler. My questions. 1) Is/was it a common practice for yachts of this area/vicinity to start with a couple of single planks above the garboard ? 2) Could the repair work have been carried out `because of the rocking back and forward on the sand bar and could she have some keel damage ? The keel bolts are bronze and look `solid'would sending a few pics help?

question: Continuing query for Kinya. My first attempt to bring Kinya to her new home went horridly wrong when I lost oil pressure and gained a sickly `knock' in the engine. off went the motor which was charging the batteries which were working hard out for the bilge pumps which were called into action after we had pound for 5 hours into a 1 m slop, creating seam openings I would guess were in the vicinity of 150 gallons per hour. So detoured to a marina where she was put in a sling and I removed all caulking from her leaky bits and (amateyrishly/regretfully)`rammed' some fresh caulking in followed up with sikaflex and 3" ply planks with ss screws as patchwork to get her up for the other 10 hr leg of her journey to auckland.Now I am having fun trying to remove all sikaflex. Whats a good easy way to remove this rubbery substance ?

--Interesting boat, and yes Pic's always help. On a double plank construction there would be no reason for any single planks above the garboard. Sometimes for weight reasons the double planks ended at the waterline with singles going up the topsides. Seems to me the new planks you describe because of their location and the fact the replacements were on both sides of the boat, that the old planks were removed to inspect and make repairs to some damaged frames. They were just lazy in putting back single planks or the repairs were not done and these planks were made to remove again to make repairs at a later time. Also often with double planking the seams were matched fit, those compulsive Germans, and required no caulking. Bronze keelbolts rarely break and if they were bent you would see that in the keel position. To your second email,

Nasty stuff that polysulfide, no simple way of removal although I hear that heating it up helps. If you have no inside access, you should pull those caulked planks and see what's up and then double plank as per the rest of the hull.---glad you found me-------gary

question: Nice message board! I am the very proud young owner of a 1954 Owens Flagship 29' Motor Yacht, She is double plaked Philippian Mohogany and has some rot problems. My question is now that I have stripped the MANY coats of paint from the hull what type of seam compound should I use for the 1/8" gaps between the 1/2" planks. Also the screw holes, what shall I fill those with. The stuff I am plucking out seems to be brown wood filler. Lastly, about 6 planks need replacing for sure, the boat is now dry and been out of the water for years and the new wood is also dry. How much gap should I leave between the new & old planks? Last question, a couple planks just have 1/4" of rot on the outside edges of the seams. Can I shave off the rot and fill the gap with an epoxy sawdust mix? At $4.50 a board foot the mohogany is costing me a fortune!
Thanks for your advice,
Ben

Ben:
You have one of the better built Owens, over the years they used many different construction methods and materials, but the double planked ones were the strongest of the lot. I would use Interlux bottom seam compound to fill the gaps between the planks, polysulfides are too permanent and when the bottom swells most of the seam compound will be pushed out. With the oil based compound you can easily trim off the pushed out excess when next you haul the boat. I would fill the screw head holes with an epoxy paste like MarineTex. I am assuming the seams are not caulked with cotton. Since the new planks will swell considerably, I would leave a good 1/8in gap on all seams including the butt ends. Using epoxy to fill in the edges of the planks where you have removed the rot is not a good idea, it will fall out. Instead, put in small wood dutchman using epoxy, but do not epoxy them to the underneath plank, however screwing them to that plank is ok. Screws do not inhibit swelling of the wood, epoxy does. The outer and inner planks will swell at different rates so any epoxy between the two will cause problems. When you pull off the old planks that need replacing look closely to see if there is a bedding compound between the two. If so, you do the same with the new ones. Roofing tar is cheap and works well as an underwater bedding compound. When you launch the boat have a good bilge pump, she is bound to take on water. Unless there is a leak not related to swelling, the amount of water taken on should 1/2 itself every 24rs. If she still takes on water after a week there is probably a non swelling leak that must be tracked down. Have fun and feel free to ask more questions as you work along.------------g

question: Great page, Your detailed answers are greatly appreciated! I have another questions about my '54 Owens, I had asked about plank replacement & rot repair. My next questions is about proper finishing sequence. I have been told to treat the bare wood with a mix of raw linseed oil & turpintine. Should this treatment be done before or after calking seams and putty filling screw holes. The seam compound instructions say to primer the wood first. What should by steps be in order? Strip, Treat, Prime, Seam fill, paint? Will the putty stick if the wood is saturated with linseed oil? Lastly, the bottom is fiberglassed over the wood, just the transision from wood to glass is starting to seperate now that I have stripped the paint. What is the best way to re-seal and fasten the glass to the wood to prevent the glass from seperating worse. This area is right around the water line. The rest of the bottom is in great shape.
Thanks again for your informative page and prompt answers for us green horn backyard boat lovers.
Sincerly,
Ben Roche

Ben;
Thanks for the compliment, I enjoy answering the questions. Your sequence is basically correct. If you thin the linseed and let it warm up a bit in the sun, it should soak in well and not prove to be a problem with the seam compound. You may have to wait a couple of days for it to dry. If you are filling holes or screw heads with epoxy, do that before you oil. Prime your seams with an oil based paint before you putty as well as using it for your general painting. If you are going to use polymer paint, don't oil.
Where the fiberglass ends and the bear wood begins is always a problem, especially on older boats. This is a critical area because once water gets under that glass it will keep moving and eventually separate the two. I usually trim the glass to a nice true line and cover the edge with a screwed on batten well bedded in a polysulfide like 3m 5200. You can round off the batten to make it "fit in". Also, often with the Owens I worked on I put a similar batten well bedded in the joint between the garboard plank and the keel for this area seemed to be a leaky spot. You may not need this but if you find your boat has a steady leak, the bet is it's coming from that area. Have fun----------gary

Great, I am not as dumb as I feel with this project. I like your batt Idea,
I have already ordered some Marine Tex for the screw holes so I will do that
before I treat the wood with the linseed oil. I have a detailed process sent
to me by a Shipwright in Canada about using thinned linseed oil 75/25 then
50/50 then 25/75 on the last few applications and letting in dry for a week
before primer. Have you heard of this?, he said he restored his boat 20
years ago this way and has lasted well.
Thanks again.
Ben

Ben:
The linseed oil treatment is pretty tried and true, but normally it is used on softer woods like pine, spruce, fir etc. because they are porous. The hardwoods, maple, oaks, mahogany, etc., don't benefit that much because they absorb little. I have never used it on Mahogany, but if it is extremely dried out then I am sure the linseed treatment as he specified is a good idea---------gary

Thanks for the update, Yeah the 75% of the planks have been exposed for over
a year, I bought the project unfinished and stripped the last 25% of the
paint over the last weekend. Now I need to find a trick to get the old seam
compound out. Any ideas? The stuff is tight in the plank gaps and brittle so
it looks like a long, long, tedious project. Fun, Fun, Fun!
Thanks again and I will leave you alone for awhile.
TTYL
Ben

Ben:
I don't mind the questions. It is hard to get the old caulk out. The quickest way I know is to use a small circular saw with a batten tacked up for a guide. Wear goggles and try putting a carbide tip blade in backwards. This method seems arduous with all the measuring and moving the batten, but in the long run it is much faster and leaves you with good seam edges.----------g

I have a Folkboat that is planked with i believe fur. It was origionaly varnished in side. The varnish is lifting espically below the waterline and the wood is dry and cracking. What should i use to revitialize the planks.
Regards
Erik Midtsjo
.

Erik:
You have one of the prettiest boats ever designed. With the planks below the water line I would strip off the remaining varnish and oil them. You can either thin down linseed oil with turpentine or you can use an oil called Penetrol, available in paint stores. Give them several coats or until a little oil remains on the surface, that way you know the wood has absorbed what it needs. Wipe off the excess and you have a happy boat.------------gary

Hi My name is Rich Sank I own a 40 post located in CT. She is a soft chine vessel. My problem is the stbd aft quarter has rot from fresh water run off. The top 2"-3"of 4 planks are rotted. I've removed 6 planks to gain access to good wood to make the repairs. There are 6 oak frames that need replacement. 2 frames below the opened area are in question (below the water line).1 is soft and the other is cracked. I've owned ELAN for over 15yrs and never had to make a repair of this type. I need help. I was planning to ship lap new oak to the old but have only apx 4"-5"before the hull starts to curve. I forgot to mention the frames are gusseted.Also I thought of sister ribbing along the 2 damaged frames. Any input you have would be greatly appreciated. Rich Sank

Rich:
Sounds like quite a project. I would sister those ribs rather than try to scarf into them, it will be stronger that way. Also make sure the new planks are well staggered so the butted ends don't line up vertically. Other than that, it sounds like you have the project well in hand. If there are some rot spots that will remain saturate them with antifreeze to kill the rot spores. Good luck and feel free to ask more.------gary

Hi Gary,

I am new to the wood sailboat scene so I apologize for my ignorance. A
swing keel 1939 36ft wood sailboat sloop is the what I have been
thinking and preoccupied about. The designer is Frederick Geiger, and
builder was Morris Johnson of Bay Head N.J. The boat has a diesel Water
Mota Sea Panther engine.
At this point I am asking is what are the critical elements I need to
look at in inspecting this boat.

General outside inspection:

1. The wood above the waterline appears fine. There appears to be some
rust mark. It needs repainting.
2. The mast looks solid (made of wood I don't know what type) and tall
with rigging in place (goose neck, forward and aft stringers?, runner,
side rigs, spreaders).
3. I walked on the deck and it appears solid. Some areas have cracks. I
am not sure if the floor was covered with fiberglass?
4. The original port holes look fine. There are areas where paint is
peeling. But floor does not seem to flex.
5. The hatch rim s look fine, some loss of varnish.
6. The stanchion feel solid, the bow pulpit moves a bit.

Cockpit

1. I looked below the cockpit into the back transom, it looks dry and
wood appears clean and solid.
2. The engine looks dirty, greasy and rusty at some parts. The mounts
and wood area around looks solid.
3. The area around where the shaft goes out of the boat looks old. No
water is dripping down. Looks that shaft has not been rotated for
awhile.

Inside

1. The inside definitely needs work. The cabinets were moved around, and
some trims were taken out.
2. The floor planking was removed.
3. I am trying to examine the lower hull for structural integrity. There
is some water but it appears to be coming from the outside going inside
and down the mast and crack above.
4. There are spars? going from each side to the center. There is a
center keel that appears to be darker wood than the other?
5. Some big fat bolts and nuts around this beam or through it?
6. The bilge section toward the back underneath the engine looks fine
with some water.
7. The mast goes down to the hull. It appears solid.
8. The forward section V berth looks dry and fine.
9. The toilet has a pump.
10 I tried examining the water intakes and the valves. I did not try to
turn them incase water started coming in and I couldn't stop it
afterwards.
11. Side of the wall appear dry and solid.
12. I am not sure how the swing keel works. But there is a center table.
The leaves fall side words. A cable from above deck comes down a brass
tube?

Engine

1. The engine has been sitting around for 3 years. The marina said it
was winterized.
2. There appeared to be some water in the oil?
3. The starter is dead so they are trying to get another.
I'll have to see if they can get it to start.
The boat was lifted up last year for cleaning and the marina people said
the hull was fine, and paint was also fine.
Anyway please comment freely about what I have said, especially about
critical wood areas of the boat. I am concerned for instance about the
back section where the shaft comes in. I am afraid the wood might pop
out and water comes in?
If you can answer before Friday would be great since I have to make a
decision by then.
Thanks.
J.B.

JB
Certainly sounds like an interesting boat. I would guess it has a centerboard rather than a swing keel for they are rarely found on wooden boats. My best advice is to get a surveyor to check the boat out or at least pay a local boat carpenter to go over the boat. You say you are a wooden boat novice but you have done a commendable inspection of the boat. From what you report, the boat sounds fine and depending on the price may be a good deal. If you can't do what I suggest above, you should acquire a small wood mallet and tap on any areas of the boat that look suspicious. If the wood is sound you will here a high pitched sound, if there is a problem such as rot or delaminated plywood you will here a non resonating thud. Remember fresh water causes rot not salt water so the bottom of the boat is probably sound. You should also be aware that buying a wooden boat changes your life forever. You will fall in love but wood boats are demanding partners and you must enjoy working on them as much as sailing them. Got to www.google.com and type in Geiger sloop. Good luck and I will be glad to answer any specific questions.----------------gary
Ps. On the inside keelson the big fat bolts are probably keel boats, tap them with a metal hammer and hopefully they will ring rather than thud.

Gary,
Thanks so much for your lightning reply (much appreciated!).
With your experience. What price for this boat is Not a good deal (being
conservative and assuming worst case scenario)? Above $10k?, or $5k?
Is $3k a good deal?
Thanks!
JB

JB
If you can buy a sound professionally built 36ft wood sailboat less than 50 yrs old for under 10 thousand you have a good deal even if it needs some work. Over 10 you would have to consider how much more you would have to spend to make it A-1.
Of course a lot has to do with what you plan to do with the boat, there is a big difference in demand on the boat between a little coastal cruising versus deep water extensive cruising. But for $10,000 or under you can make a mistake and probably recoup your money. If you can get it for 3,000 it's worth it even if you would use it as a front yard decoration.----------------gary

Hi Gary,
Yes I have bought the boat (pending they get the diesel engine running). I added a drawing below to help explain what I was describing in my previous email. The issue is about the section where the rib is bolted to a piece of wood, which is bolted onto the keel. The bolts have rusted out in some of these fore foots. Bolting new wood to the rib does not appear to be a problem that I foresee. But I am not sure about bolting the fore footers (sorry if this is not the proper name, I read an article and they were using this terminology) onto the keel. It appears that the head of these vertical bolts were bolted from above. I am assuming they bolted these bolts without penetrating through the keel. I am concerned about having a firm flooring, but more important a structurally strong lower hull.
Can I still bolt the forefoot without having to go deep into the keel.Oak appears to be the wood for this structure from your response. If the existing would is not rotted out but only water logged, can I reuse it. Or better to replace it.
When does one have new keel bolts added? Is this an expensive job.
Can you give me a description of how the garboards are attached to the keel and
what do the keel bolts do and what does the keelson do. This boat has a center board (a drop keel)
Thanks again Gary I appreciate the inputs.
JB
.

JB
Yes, that helps. Congratulations on your purchase. Is the boat in or out of the water? Water logged wood is fine, in fact the original wood in a older boat is probably of better quality grain and strength wise than what we could replace it with. If the wood isn't spongy I wouldn't replace it.
The keel is the protrusion outside the boat, the keelson is the bottom most piece of interior structure inside the boat, it is basically on top of the keel but inside the boat [see drawing]. On sailboats the outside wood keel is called deadwood onto which is usually attached a large lead or iron keel. The metal keel and deadwood are bolted up through the keelson and forefoot [floor timber]. Also the floortimber usually has a couple of driftbolt fastenings which are like long nails. On your boat there probably isn't a metal part to the keel since you have a centerboard. Usually this type of sailboat not having the heavy metal keel to offset the forces on the sails, has some internal ballast to provide a lot of weight at the lowest part of the hull. The centerboard when down does not stabilize the boat but only keeps it from going sideways when sailing off the wind. When motoring or sailing downwind the board is in the up position.
New keelboats in a metal keel boat is difficult and expensive for a variety of reasons, but keelboats through just a wood keel, depending on the length of the bolt needed, is not difficult at all. On a centerboard boat the keelbolts are under little stress compared to the stresses on the keelboats of a metal keel sailboat.
Where the garboard plank joins the keel there is a notch, called a rabbit, in the keel that the plank sits against and is caulked with cotton. The plank itself is fastened at the ribs and into the floors and sometimes the keelson.
I checked out the stsci website, most impressive. What do you do concerning the
hubble telescope? I am a bit of a space nut ---------gary

Gary,
Thank you for the congratulation (I am still thinking about the work),and for
your reply and the drawing. I have a better feel of the hull structure.
Its good you got to visit our site at the Hubble Space Telescope. We are an
institute composed of various universities with the goal of performing
astronomical research. I am not an astronomer. I am a science instrument engineer
and part of the engineering team here. I am responsible for the operation and
engineering issues concerning the instruments, making sure our science
instruments are working and performing as designed. Of course they never work
without problems (ps don't tell anyone). The instrument that shows most of the
discoveries to the public is called the Wide Field Planetary Camera. This is the
instrument I have worked with for several years.
Anyway now you know what I do (sorry if it was boring). Sometimes it can be. But
it also gets quite busy when things go wrong or we have a problem. Anyway we try
to do our job well here.
The boat is in the water. I will be getting the design blue prints this weekend
from the marina. Will this help in determining whether and by how much I could
safely screw the forefooters in?
Thanks Gary, Please feel free to ask me anything about Hubble
JB

JB
I should have known you were an engineer by your drawing and by the thoroughness of your questions concerning your boat. Yes, the working drawings should give you the thickness of the keel, but when you refer to rebolting the floors, forefoots, this can only be accomplished with the boat hauled out so you can get to the bottom of the keel. Maybe you are referring to lag bolts, which accomplish the same as drift bolt. In order to avoid electrolysis make sure the metal you use is compatible with what metals were used to build the boat. Electrolysis has ruined more wood boats than rot.
Your job sounds quite fascinating and must demand a high degree of precision and little room for compromise. With older wooden boats repair and restoration is a continuous process of compromise, but there are no shortcuts. It is best to stay with the tried and true materials and methods with which the boats were built.
I am sure you take great pride in the Hubble. It has exposed people to the wonderment of space and hopefully with those incredible images broadens our perspective about our own humble relevence. Keep those images coming. Where in the country are you and your boat located?------------gary

Gary,

By now all that snow must have melted. Gary that Yawl on your web site is a
real beauty! I can understand now why you love working on these boats. Well in
my mind you guys were still first (next time remind the skipper to be on the
right side).
The saga about my boat buying is still not over. I technically bought it, but I
told the owner at the marina to give me more time. They just got the diesel
engine running the other day. The master mechanic wants to take it out for a
spin. I told him I was going to come along (after all I may be the owner). But
I am wavering whether to go for it, or settle with fiberglass. Sorry if that
word hurts your ears. I love wood boats, but I don't know if the work in the
hull (ribs, footers) is worth the undertaking. I started calling around for my
white oaks, and silicon bronze fasteners.
I did get a hold of the original blue print. I see where the word blue came
from. The paper is practically all dark blue with white lines. I am wondering
what is the best way to fasten the footer on top of the keel (other end bolted
to ribs). There is about 4.5 inches before the iron keel ballast. Also if I
sister the lower section of the frame, is screwing the end to the keel fine?
I'll let you know of any new developments in my boat saga (wife is getting
tired of conversation about boats).
I was able to confirm that the keel is a swing keel. The blue print also shows
it.
JB

JB;
I am afraid I was the skipper. Thanks for the update and I am surprised the boat truly has a swing keel rather than a centerboard. The truth of the matter may be your
biting off more than you can comfortably chew. If you were experienced with wood boat restoration and loved doing it than It could be a dream boat, but if you want to go sailing there is nothing wrong with a glass boat with a nice wood tender. I have seen too many good intentioned new wooden boat owners having to walk away in the end because it was just too much. Don't let that happen to you or the boat, or your wife. Keep me informed.--------gary

Hi Gary:
I am thinking of buying a 40 foot 1946 wooden boat built by A.C.Benson
of Vancouver, B.C. (builder mainly of tugs). She was apparently built
as one of the WW II coastal patrol fleet. She has a double-planked
hull, yellow cedar, I believe, with the two layers of planks fastened
together with copper rivets. The inner layer of planking is laid
diagonally onto smallish oak ribs, and the outer planks run on the
opposite diagonal below the side guard rubbing strips, and horizontally
above the guard. Around the bow there is a third layer of outer
protective planks.
I have been told that this type of construction is practically
impossible to repair when there is hull plank damage. Could you give me
your opinion on this? This is the main issue in my decision of whether
or not I will buy this boat.
Thanks a lot,
John Segal

John:
Sounds like an interesting boat. This type of construction is incredibly strong but as you have heard is more difficult to repair then a traditional carvel planked boat. To fix a small area of damage and achieve structural integrity you need to make a larger hole in the outer planking so as to repair the inner planking. However I would not base my decision to buy or not to buy on this fact alone. The difficult fix is offset by the additional strength which would minimize damage if a mishap occurred. The boats been around a long time attesting to its good construction. If she has no discernible rot don't let the repair difficulty ruin a good thing. Good luck---gary

question: Have a 1941 Lightning # 654 built in Erie, Pa.
We have wide gaps in plank of hull which causes leaks during summer use.
CLeaned and recaulked two years ago. Other than leaking (boat is sailed in
Lake Erie near Buffalo) the boat is in good condition.
Considering epoxying but my brother does not think it wise. Other
consideration is thinning caulk to it penetrates planks. Any other suggestions?

Hi:
I had a lightening and had many good sails, in fact it was the boat I tried out the mast mate prototype on. When you say it was recaulked does that mean new cotton was put in the seams or just more goop. If the cotton was removed and replaced with high tech goo the boat will continue to leak. You have to have the cotton. If the cotton is there and was properly set and the boat still leaks you may have to put splines in the seams, glued to one edge and caulked tight with cotton to the adjacent edge. Over the years of expansion and contraction the wood gets a bit fatigued and doesn't expand with the force it had in its youth. Epoxy in the seams, other than a glue for the splines, will solve the problem for only very short time and make it much more difficult to fix properly. Here's a hyperlink to the lightening website where you can get many opinions Woody the URL is www.lightningclass.org-good luck--gary

Hi, thanks for emailing back to quickly. Yes, the boat was caulked using cotton.
What is a spline and where can it be purchased? Thanks--Sharon

Sharon:
Of course I have to ask if someone experienced caulked her? A spline has to be made, its a piece with one side as thick as the seam,and the other side tapered down so you end up with a long beveled piece that looks like this V end on The fat side goes to the inside the thin to the outside. One edge is glued to the plank edge the other is caulked with cotton to the other plank edge. You may need someone familiar with wooden boat carpentry to do this kind of work. Also, you don't say if the boat remains in the water or you have it on a trailer and it spends a good deal of time dry. If the latter is true your leakage problem could be solved by keeping some wet towels draped over the inside planking when the boat is out of the water. Hope this helps--------------gary.

Forgot to mention, yes someone very experienced caulked the boat.....but I don't know if he is aware of the option you listed below, I will pass on ....thanks so much!!
We may have an additional question regarding the Centerboard.
Sharon

Sharon:
OK, feel free to ask away. I had to rebuild the centerboard trunk on mine. Have your husband check out the forum at the lightening website-----www.lighteningclass.org--------gary
question: I have a 1952 vertue, The boat is very strong but a recent problem has stumped me. On a starboard tack I will separate planks on the port side below the waterline directly even with the mast support. After I was back in port I tighten the starboard rigging slightly and I produced the same result. 1st I am not sure what is causing the problem; frame to plank construction, the mast step, ect... 2nd I am not sure what to do about it; should reinforce to frames at the spot on the leaks possibly adding a short rib. I am not sure what to do.
thank you
Joe

Joe:
Nice boat.The first thing is to keep your rigging just taught, not tight. Basically under sale the forces at hand are trying to push the mast through the bottom of your boat. The lowest plank called the garboard is fastened to the keelson and this joint being the closest to where the mast is stepped, takes tremendous stress. If this joint has not been recaulked, with cotton, in years and or the fastenings are loose, it will leak. I would sail the boat with less tension on the standing rigging and see if it still leaks. If it does you have to haul the boat and check the garboard fastenings and recaulk with cotton. If the fastenings are bad there, they probably are bad everywhere and refastening the entire bottom maybe necessary. Not as bad a job as it sounds. Hope this helps and if you need to ask more feel free. -----------gary

question: I have a 1956 Chris Craft Sedan Cruiser. It is double-planked mahogany below the water line, with batten-planked mahogany above.
I have been told the original double-planked construction relied on a bedded canvas membrane between the two layers, with no caulk between the planks on the outer layer. I need to replace some bottom planks, inner and outer, and need to scarf in a new section of chine. I can't find any trace of the canvas layer. The boat has been out of the water for a couple of years, and the bottom planks have gaps of 1/8" to 1/4", which have been filled with some kind of rubbery caulk. Can I epoxy splines between the bottom planks to take up some or all of the gap, or would this cause problems?

Hi;
Nice boat you have. It is not advisable to spline bottom seams especially on a boat that has been high and dry for a while, use a flexible compound, like putty or roofing cement to fill the seams. The planks will swell and force most of it out of the seam. Do not use a polysulfide like 5200 to caulk the seams, you'll never get it out and it to will inhibit the seams from swelling. I would use the wet dry roofing cement in between the planks, with canvas or without. The roofing cement is not only cheap, the toredo worms hate it, guess it doesn't taste to good. If you have further questions feel free to ask.--------------gary

Dear Mr. Wheeler,
My husband and I are looking seriously at a 1961 Cooper MY with a raised
pilothouse. The boart was constructed in British Columbia on the Frazier
River at the Cooper boat yard which still exists, but now owned by
Queenship.

This boat appears to be a one of a kind and the only Cooper MY made of wood
seen by many brokers in the WA, OR area.
The boat is need of extensive restoration but it is the hull that seriously
needs attention.
It has been in fresh water for a known 15 years. It has been 10 years since
its last bottom painting. There does not appear to be any signs of fastener
bleeders on the side, even thogh the paint is peeling now. In addition there
are several bad planks. Some of the ends have rotted away on planks above
the waterline towards the back near the transom. The hull is mahogony and I
have not gotten an accurate measurement of plank thickness or rib size as of
yet. Estimates on Honduras mahogony have been made and I have found a well
priced source of wood in Seattle, a boat yard for do-it-yourselfers near
where the boat is located presently.
I would like to know about replanking such a boat. The present owner built
houses for over 40 years and he says it is no big deal. When talking to
various yars they want a whole lot of money for replanking and indicate that
it is not that easy.
It is doubleplanked below the water line for sure, it appears to be single
planked above. It seems as though using epoxy for gluing the edges and onto
the ribs may be an option when adding new ones. There seems to be lots of
great caulking products, rot treaments and fillers and so forth. Is it that
hard to shape 12 and 16 foot planks on a fairly stright sided boat? The
chine area seem OK so for as we have checked.
Is cutting the bevels really hard? How do you do this, what tools are best.
Seeing is knowing more and if we could see it done we could better estimate
whether we could do the work ourselves. We know however it would be too
expensive to have someone else do it the work. Bottom line, if someone does
not do this work very soon, she will be lost to the world and she really is
beautiful. The current owner is too ill to do this project and it was his
dream to do it. She is unique and beautiful, please advise. Cecilia.

Cecilia:
First, spend the money for a good marine survey so you really know what you are getting into, all wooden boats can be rebuilt, the only limitation is cost and or time . There is nothing magical or prohibitive in re-plankig or general restoration. There are no specialized tools except possibly for the caulking tools but also there are no good shortcuts such as using hi-tech goos or epoxy. The basics are best and rebuilding a boat using the same methods and materials as when it was built is the only way to go. It's a big commitment, a true labor of love but well worth it. I need more specific particulars about the boats overall condition to say anything more of use. Here are two books I recommend, both by Peter Spectre---Frames, Stem and Keel Repairs and Planking and Refastening both available as a package deal from Amazon.com for about $50. Keep me up to date and feel free to throw more questions my way.---------------------gary

question: hi gary, what is the word on ice sheathing (narrow planking)over the main planks? Would irish felt under be the thing and with tar? I'd be afraid of the tar seeping on thoughs warm days.would you screw or nail the shield to the underlying planks only or through to the frames? would really like your thoughs on this. thanks dave

Hi:
What I have seen between the planking on double planked boats is canvas and bedding compound but I would think tar and Irish felt would be fine. For repair purposes, screws are always preferable over nails [use a similar metal to the main plank fasteners] and if the underplanking is in good shape attaching just to it would be adequate. However, if the purpose of this shield is structural rather than just protective you should fasten to the frames as well as install the shield as strip planking i.e. each pieced coved and fitted, edged nailed and glued to each other, a much bigger job but one that has saved many older wood boats from the chainsaw. Hope this helps, ask more if needed. Good luck---------gary

Hello My name is Rich and have a problem that seems only to be in the engine room. I've owned E'lan for 15 years and developed this fuzz on the int. planking of the engine room some time ago but didn't know how to go about fixing it. Before bring the boat to the N.E. 2yrs. ago someone suggested scraping and then spraying it with denatured alcohol. The fuzz came back. The hull is white cedar on oak frames single planked. can you help? Thanks Rich

Rich;
You have an electrolysis problem. Most likely the engine ground or the battery is leaking current into the hull. This current aided by the salt water environment is increasing the electrolytic interaction between the plank fasteners and other submerged dissimilar metals. I first noticed this wood fuzziness around through
hull fittings on wood boats. This problem was resolved by proper grounding of the through hulls plus proper placement of sacrificial zinc's. I would suggest you find someone in your area that deals with electrolysis and have them check out your electrical system and sacrificial zinc placement. Just adding more zincs can make it worse. Also if your boat is kept in a marina that has liveaboards there could be stray current coming from other boats and extension wires in the water that would exacerbate your problem. Get this resolved because eventually electrolysis will break down the wood fibers.--------------good luck-------gary

Hey Gary I forgot to ask how do I treat the planks after the electrical problem is solved?

Rich:
Because of the cell fiber breakdown you need to stiffen the fibers up before you can sand them down. I would use a wood sealer, then sand lightly and, if you want, paint---g

Rich;
No, that is more of a preservative, good stuff but for this you want an acrylic sealer available in any paint store. Actually, if you are going to paint it with an oil based paint just add some thinner to the 1st coat and sand afterwards and skip the sealer-------g

question: Gary, i am restoring an 1960 45' chris craft connie, and have a question about the seams in the hull. thge hull was sandblasted to remove the old paint and such. i have sistered the fasteners with on izs larger bronze screws, each bedded in 5200. the blaster removed ed old cotton caulking along with the paint. my question is would your roofing tar workin the seams without replacing the cotton. i plan to fiberglass the hull using Allan Vaitses method. thanks chuck
.

Chuck;
Nice boat. No, you wouldn't use the tar in that way, in fact, if you are going to fiberglass the bottom, one would normally epoxy wood splines in the seams. I am not sure why you are going to fiberglass since you have already refastened all you have left is to recaulk with cotton and seam compound. Fiberglass over Carvel planked boats has a way of separating from the hull after a bit of use. I am not familiar with the Allan Vaitses method. Where on the net would I get some info on it?Ask more if need be---------------if not ----good luck with your project---gary

Thanks Gary i really appreciate your helping. my problem is find some one to
do the cotton in the seams. i thought that it would be a very expensive job.
Vaitses is not on the web ,ifound his book thru Amazon . is there a video
on doing the cotton/ thanks chuck
.

Chuck:
Your welcome. Where are you located? It would be much better for the boat to caulk it rather than glassing and there is no magic to caulking except having experience doing it. It's not a book thing, it's a feel thing. You need to find someone in your area that knows how to do it and have them give you a few lessons. If you are in a boating area there are those about that have experience. Check the local boatyards or the bars down on the waterfront.--------------------gary

Chuck:
Well, I am not close enough to do you any good, but I am sure you can find a local who can show you what to do------------------gary

question: Gary, is it possible that 1960 45' chris craft connie would not have cotton in the seams, and that a good seam filler is all that is needed before bottom paint? thanks chuck

Chuck:
Yes, Some Chris Craft carvel planked boats had inside battens running the length of each plank. These battens are bedded and screwed to the adjacent planks making the seam watertight as well as giving the hull rigidity, fulfilling the same purpose as cotton in the seams. Although, the sand blasting would take out some of the cotton, there should be some left in some seams. If the seams had cotton they would be beveled like so >, otherwise like so = and a cotton caulked seam would be a bit wider than a matched seam. If your boat has been out of water a long time the seams would have opened considerably and will need a lot of swelling. If the seams are matched without cotton, the roofing cement tar is a cheap way to go since most of it will be pushed out as the seam swells, but regular underwater seam compound [ Interlux} would be preferable.Check the inside of the boat for the battens. Let me know what you discover.------------------gary

Chuck:
Appears so, but there are some areas that will have been caulked and should be recaulked if the cotton is gone. The seam along the transom and along the bow and along the chines and the seam at the garboard plank i.e. the seam next to the keel. It shouldn't cost too much to have those done-----gary

question: Gary,
My names Rob from Sydney, and am interested in a semi-restored 26 foot spotted gum timber recreational/party/fishing boat built around the 1950's. The cabin, decks & cockpit have all been recently replaced with celery top pine. She's powered by a rebuilt Perkins 6354 Deisel and i'm told the vessell weighs about 7 tonne. Originally built as an agrigultural fishing vessell.
My only concern is several (approx 6) cracked ribs, located behind the engine, towards the stern. They have cracked at the sharp bend into the bilge area. I'm told its built like a brick outhouse, but am concerned, particulary with taking her on deep sea day fishing adventures. If you have time i'd love to hear from you. Rob
p.s Is she overpowered ?

Rob;
Sounds like a tough old boat and by your description she doesn't seem overpowered. Although, memory alone could probably hold her together, you should sister those ribs just to put your mind at ease when your 20 miles off shore in a blow. To avoid similar breakage over time, it would be best to laminate up the ribs. Over the last year I have been assisting, in advice only, a sailor named Warwick in Brisbane who has taken on a project not unlike yours albeit a sailboat and a more extensive rebuild. Since I am not familiar with the woods of Australia nor the availability of epoxy etc., it might be good if you emailed him at--fords@iprimus.com.au. You can review his project on my website--go to Questions and then to Dialogues with Warwick or use this hyperlink carmen.html . Please ask more of me as needed and have fun with your classic--------gary

question: hello gary,
i have recently purchased a beautiful 1938 wishbone ketch that is in need of hull repair and minor topside t.l.c. the latter i will probably be fine with , however, the hull is what i am inquiring about. the boat was buily by Nordbjerg in copenhagen in '38. she is built on very solid white oak frames, with fir planking, and fastened with galvenized iron fasteners. i have received alot of ideas from others about her hull repair, some saying glass the hull or use the hull as a mold for veneer. most however, think a traditional replanking is surely the best way to go.
she needs approximately 10 planks replaced near her stern section and a total refastening all mostly below the waterline. my question(or my 1st question for now) is what do you think my best coarse of action would be...?
p.s. she is 50' with an lwl of 40' and 11'6 beam

Hi;
Sounds like a great boat. I would certainly go with traditional plank replacemennt and refastening. The reason a carvel planked boat is built the way it is is just for this reason, so it can be fixed. I would be glad to assist you as you proceed on your worthy adventure. If you were around Rockland Maine I would give you a hand-----------------gary

hello again gary, we actually purchased STORMSVALA from a couple from
rockland namely stacy and larry palmer who were very helpful in all aspx of
our purchase, being the boats history or renovation advice regarding our
new home.
i have read your forum alot lately and have found your advice to be
extremely beneficial . we have definately decided to go traditional and are going to go over the
entire hull within the next few days and find out exactly what we've got
ourselves into. the boat is now on stands in camp ellis beach on 8 stands and 1
bowstand(shes chubby....45 tons) i am a builder/remodeler with a desire to
bring this boat back to its potential while keeping her as original as
possible. my question to you would be what steps would you take to embark
on this project. do i need to build her a surrounding now or in a month or
so(i would much rather do as much work to her hull while she is wide open
than to be confined if i dont have to be.)? i have read pages of info on
plank removal but wondered if you had some good advice on this endeavor,
mainly finding the planks that need to go and analyzing the hull itself
what to look for etc. i have tons of work to do and would like to keep myself in some order of
disorder and figured you had probably seen this process before and could
give me some direction. thanks for your immediate response and your interest, and hopefully with some of your knowledge Stormsvala can sail back into rockland harbor where
she was given up on years ago.
p.s. there is another wishbone ketch of the same design and builder in
rockland out front of sams boatyard(?) this ketch is 40 feet long and i
would like to contact its owner for sail plans etc.

Bill&Kristen;
Small world, so where is camp ellis beach? Well, as you have planned, the first thing is to make a good structural survey of the hull and determine what needs replacing and fixing and determine a sensible sequence of accomplishing what can be done in the time alotted with the money available. The biggest mistake usually made is to take on too much all at once where fixing the most urgent and spreading the rest over time is more realistic. Boatyards are full of old woodies torn all apart and abandoned when time and or money ran out. I would not cover up the boat until absolutely necessary and get as much outside work done as possible. My first structural concern would be the frames for there is no sense in redoing planks if there is nothing to fasten them to. Planks usually only have to be replaced if they suffer from rot, caused by iron fastening rot , electrolysis rot or good old fresh water rot, or if they have been damaged. Refastening is no big deal but you have to make sure the planks are sitting tight to the ribs for if the are not you have to pull all the caulking including the cotton or oakum. In most cases when the planks have been fastened with steel or iron , getting them off in one piece is difficult, usually best to just split them out. So, get out the sounding hammer and ice pick and see what's what and let me know. Feel free to call as well as email. Also I don't know the ketch or boatyard you are referring to in Rockland, can you be a bit more descriptive about its location and I'll see if I can track down the owner---------gary.

question: We have a 1961 Cheoy Lee-built carvel planked yawl. The planks are 7/8" end-grained teak. No short planks, original bronze nails/copper rivets, 1.5" x 1.5" oak ribs. The teak hull is oiled. The original +40 year old oakum and cotton caulking is still intact and apparently functional in most of the plank seams, but in places has worked its way out, has been removed or has rotted out (due to the sealant cracking out). For the past several years the boat was moored (in salt and fresh water) in a relatively humid climate (Seattle). A year ago we purchased the boat and moved it to Lake Coeur d'Alene, in north Idaho where the summers are hot and dry (85-95 degrees and ~10% humidity versus 60-80% in Seattle)and the winters are cold and wet (avg winter temperature is around 32 degrees). After we moved it we have noted a significant amount of shrinkage and associated leak development along numerous seams (this most most noticeable after somebody hit our boat moored in its!
slip)which loosened much of the already failing brittle sealing compound (no obvious frame damage thankfully) I have removed most of the old sealant (chalk and linseed oil and occasional strip of silkaflex or similar goo) and am going to recaulk with oakum and cotton all the open seams ( a first time caulker). However, there are a number of areas where the sealant had failed and allowed rot to develop along the seams and at the butt-end of the planks, with some gaps as large as 1/2 inch. In several cases the rotted areas are up against oak blocks riveted on the inside of the planking. Several of the blocks are essentially butt joint support blocks and I assume where original based on the riveting, age and placement. It is obvious some rot has worked its way into the blocks. What is the best approach if the bulk of the block is intact? Should I inject epoxy into the back of the butt joint and into the block after removing the rot as best I can? Then finish the exterior par!
t of the plank butt joint with traditional caulking methods, epoxy or a synthetic? The same holds true for an area on the transom where there is 1-2" of rot damage to the underside of the 4" x 6" oak keelson adjacent to the sternpost where it comes in contact with the transom planking. I will be scarfing or replacing the keelson once I get the old bolts out. However, where this damage occurred there are numerous gaps in the planks here in the order of 1/2" to 1" over lengths as long as 18"-20." Most all are now filled with a chalky-type but weakly flexible caulking compound topped with a harder epoxy type material or paint that is brittle, fractured and will be dug out. For these large wide gaps is oakum a suitable fix or should they be epoxied or should I use another type of sealant? Pretty much every seam in the transom will need to be filled (one can see daylight through most all of them). Removing/replacing the planking is out since they are long planks and would requi!
re a serious amount of refastening and outside of the open seams they are in good sound shape.
Finally, considering we have extreme changes in temperature and humidity what is your suggestion as to the longest lived seam compound or mix for finshing the oakum/cotton caulked seams. We use a quality teak oil mixed with a little tung oil for the oil finish with little or no solvents in the oils.
Chris & Kathy

.
Hi;
Wow, quite a project but a great boat and from what you describe well built with the right materials. Unfortunately you have her in about the worst possible environment, as you are aware the extreme temperature differences and dry air create the maximum situation for wood expansion and contraction which in a caravel planked boat is extreme. This requires the use of very flexible materials in the seams which eliminates any type of epoxy, and the polysulfide (rubbery) caulkings do not stick well to teak, so that leaves you with traditional caulking putty ( Interlux makes both a topside and bottom seam compound). After you caulk your seams with the oakum or cotton paint the seam with an oil based paint which will prevent the oils in the caulking from leeching into the wood and drying out prematurely.
If the Butt blocks (where plank ends come together) are not too deteriorated epoxy gitrot will suffice but if too damaged you should replace. Where the seam space to be caulked is over 1/2 inch, I would add a slim beveled < spline as a filler and caulk it in tight.
Since you are using the boat in fresh water I would keep rock salt in the bilge and throw salt around the boat liberally. Salt water prevents rot. Also where there is rot or you think there could be, spray down with antifreeze, the glycol kills rot.
When the boat is out of the water do whatever is necessary to keep the wind off the hull, wind dries out the hull faster then heat. Also keep a high salt concentration of salt water in the bilges. Good luck and ask all the questions you want. Sounds like a great place to sail-------------g

Gary:
Thanks for the recent advice about re-caulking our carvel planked 1961 Robb 35. Things went well and I was able to recaulk most of the offending or soon to offend seams (I'm glad this is a once in 20 years type job, as my fingers and hammer arm will ache for weeks to come). As an experiment I decided to fill about half the above waterline seams with Interlux white and the other half with traditional pitch to see which holds up better in the intense summer heat and extreme cold here in North Idaho.

However, not all went well as one of the larger seams (~3/8" on the outside and up to 7/16" on the interior side) directly below the port gunwale was "hollow" and open along the entire length of the boat and will require splining to facilitate caulking. I plan on using a small wedge-type spline, but am uncertain whether to use an epoxy compound or a synthetic rubber or polysulfide-type cement to seal the spline wedge to the bottom plank. Since the planks are teak, and definitely oily (even after 40 years) none will likely stick really well, although the caulking should help hold it in once pounded in hard and covered with seam compound. Any suggestions as to the best cementing material "compatable" with teak oil to cement the spline to the teak?

Thanks again for your advice.
Chris Dail and Kathy O'Neill

CHRIS AND KATHY;
Glad the caulking went well. When I have used splines in seams I haven't ever glued or used polysulfide on the uncaulked side but rather just caulked the spline in place with cotton and then seam compound the seam as usual. The swelling of the spline helps the seam to be watertight, therefore I would use a softer wood like fir or mahogony for the spline rather than teak.-------------g

Thank you for your prompt response. You answered another question I had about splining the larger gaps, but was afraid to ask. A couple of more questions if I may... Do you know whether the Interlux white (above WL) and brown (below WL) seam compounds are compatable with teak oil? Linseed oil? Can I mix them with an oil-based product to help hold moisture in and thin them a little to make it easier to get into the the thinner seams? Is there any shipwright tricks to getting the caulk into the very narrow seams (like a thinned caulk shot in with a large shot needle or something)?

I've enclosed a pic so you can see what things look like from a distance - up close and around the keelson and transom area its not so pretty right now with all the caulking ripped out. If I get brave I''ll take a picture of the "naked" stern. The whole affair may have been caused by a bad case of hot engine cooling water discharge hitting a bronze mizzen boom support bracket on the lower transom bolted to the hull with galvanized bolts and in the case of the lower keelson support bolts adjacent to a low quality steel plate in which the main backstay support bracket. If only I had got the boat before someone mixed all those metals with hot water! Visually, the wood damage could clearly be correlated with the area of metal corrosion. Once damaged, the fungi had a field day. Thanks again. By the way you have put together a killer web site - its a real asset.

Ken:
Thanks for the picture and the site compliments. Very pretty boat, but to be honest I think a white hull would better accentuate the pretty lines. You are correct about the damaged caused from mixing all those different metals together. Considering what is done to them, it is amazing as many wooden boats survive as do. You can thin down the putty with any oil product including paint.----Below is my response to anothers question on caulking. It should be useful to you as well-----------g

-----------------I assume by removing the caulk you are just referring to the seam putty and not the cotton. Do not use polysulfide or epoxy to fill the seams rather use a seam compound, interlux and zspar make it, which is deigned for that purpose. Clean the seams real well than paint them with an oil based paint or bottom paint. The paint keeps the solvents from leeching out of the compound into the wood. That way it lasts along time and doesn't dry out. There is a white seam compound for the topsides and a brown for the bottom. Tape both sides of your seam before putting in the putty, put it in, smooth it and pull the tape like this > back against itself. Use the blue tape. Taping is a pain in the butt, but it makes the job a lot easier in the long run. Here's a trick, if you have a lot of seams to do use a caulking gun. Get empty tubes, mix the compound with a little paint to get the right consistency, white for the topside, bottom paint for the bottom. Push the mixed compound into the caulking tube and hold a high speed finishing sander to the side of the tube. This vibrates the goo to the bottom and eliminates air pockets which are a real drag.----------------g

question: Hi Gary:
I have a Herreshoff S class sailboat, ca 1920. It has a member called a
bent keel, about 1.5"thick, running (more or less) stem to stern. Below it is dead wood, above it the garboard which is rabbeted into it. Inside the frames sit on it and are bolted through it. Here is the
problem: in spots, both inboard and outboard, lower and upper edges of the rabbet are showing wear and chipping away, effectively reducing the surface area that the garboard has to fasten into and make a seal with. Replacing the entire bent keel to rejuvenate a few leaky parts of the rabbet is not what I have time or money for. What if I were to pull the garboard, rout into the edge of the bent keel until I got to clean wood, then dutch in sections of fresh wood? Then screw/epoxy the new piece to the existing bent keel, when cured pull the screws, fill the holes, and then finally reattach the garboard. Is this crazy?
Thanks for your time,
Alan

Thanks for the quick response. Can't wait to get home
and read all the other letters and responses! You
are a great resource. Alan

question: In your opinion, which is the best method to tighten constantly leaking garboards on a lead keeled sailing vessel of 30 feet, keel stepped mast. I imagine new floors will help but have you discovered the best way of tying the structure together without resorting to dropping the ballast keel.

John Lilley UK

John;

Dropping the keel serves no purpose. The problem obviously can be connected to old caulking, old failing fastenings, rigging too tight i.e.. too much compression on the mast step from too tight rigging or a combination thereof. Fixing these problems will no doubt help, but if the boat has a lot of age chances are the garboard under stress will leak somewhat. Often out of frustration I have tacked on a well bedded lead strip on the seam area of the stressed garboad, usually a couple of feet. The lead provides enough give to absorb the garboard flexing and at the same time keep the water out. If you are into it, the ultimate fix is to pull the garboards, replace or sister the floors, plug the old screw holes in the keelson, install a larger mast step to spread the load, and put on new garboards and new caulking. An interesting alternative I have seen is to install what is called a diaper, amounting to a steel plate under the mast step and attached to two cables, one on port the other on starboard, with turnbuckles. The cables are attached to the upper rigging chain plates and by tightening the turnbuckles you transfer the compression stress from the mast step to the hull. The lead is a whole lot simpler. The first thing to try is loosen the rigging a bit and see if that helps, often on these older wood boats the rigging is kept too tight exacerbating the stress on the garboard. Good luck----------gary

Hi Mastmate

thanks for your swift reply.

The reason I mentioned dropping the keel was to enable new floors of higher
rise up the bilges to be fitted to try and connect the garboard and next
couple of planks above to be tied tighter to the keelson, but could not
think of a way of fastening new floors to the keelson without through
bolting. I don't know if s/s coachscrews would be good enough just screwed
into the keelson as I have never tried it...so far.... The tensioned cable
sounds like a less drastic measure though. I like what I have read so far1
Thanks for the reply, I am a surveyor in UK working with grp & timber and
always trying to expand knowledge. There is only one way of doing
that.....by talking and listening. Keep up the good work.
Regards John Lilley
John Lilley

John Lilley & Associates Marine Surveyors

John:

In my experience floor timbers are usually drift bolted into the keelson. A drift is actually just a metal rod, steel or preferably silicon bronze, that is driven through a drilled hole 1/32 smaller than the rod , once driven home the end is cut proud and peened over a washer. Very effective. I think all of us who work with wooden boats do so in part because there is always something new to learn.------------gary

What is the best way to back out the screws under the wood plugs with out stripping the heads?

Carefully , in both cases. Unfortunately, no magic tool. I use a thin ice pick to split out the plugs, not worrying too much about the hole edges for the new screws will be a size larger. With the screws, clean the slot thoroughly, tap once with a hammer, tighten screw a little , then reverse it out. I can't think of many reasons to de-plank a boat, are you sure it is necessary?------g

I have your website on my favorites and look at it from time to time. I have an old lightning sailboat (1940) and I am refastening the bottom. I went to Jamestown Destributors in Rhode Island and asked for some advice. I am not sure if it wil work. I was sold a System Three clear coat product (2part) and was told to clear coat the bottome as I refastened. I did that and spred the clear coat onto the cedar planks. When I was done, I looked at it and thought that it may have been either not the right thing or that I put it on too thick. It has a nice sheen. I was told that the wood will swell nicely and will behave like th original (mostly). I wanted to put seam compound in th eseems but this boat doesn't really need it.

I have an old woody lightning as well, see pic. I don't think what you did is really harmfull but I have seen no purpose in covering wood with a non breathing impervious layer of anything. It is possible in swelling that having one side of a plank more open to swelling than its opposite might cause some cupping but just keep an eye out and if you notice this happening grind off the coating. Try to only take advice from those who make a living keeping the old woodies floating and always remember the best you can do to maintain a wooden boat is to use the same materials and methods that were employed to build it-------gary

nice Boat, What year/number? I asked advice from a couple people from the maritime museum in Sayville, Long Island. I even had a shipwright come and look at it and got the OK. It never felt right painting on the clearcoat. I was worrying moor about rthe rusted screws that I was replacing. (I think the originals were steel). If I blow it, I will have to put a whole new bottom on the boat and I don't know if that would be worth it. The boat was garaged for over 20 years. It is bone dry and in good condition for this low a nimber.(low 500's). I even went to maine this summer on vacation and stopped in to ask a question at the wooden boat magazine shop. I guess it just has to be seen to give advice.

Refastening the Hull: the original is to have one screw per plank at each rib. I couldn't get the old ones out without really damaging them. I rescrewed next to each one with Bonze screws (#8) and now have to replace a few ribs. I also have to redo the planks next to the keel board. 4 in all (2 on each side).

Next project is the mast. I think it may be weak in th "T" as the previous owner drilled a whole thought he mast to secure the metal bar.

You've got plenty of advice but it is your boat and your decision what to do. One thing I would suggest is if the boat hasn't seen the water in 20 years, do the minimum needed and get it in the water and sail it for a while so it can swell and get its shape back, then do any major repairs. What I have done with some in rough shape is to cover the planked bottom with 3/8 marine ply and a layer of fiberglass, which really stiffened up the boat and stopped the leaks. Also the hole in the mast for the spreader bar is standard. The lightning association website is good for info as well---http://www.lightningclass.org/index.htm------gary

im going with the marine ply over the keel method you sugested iasked the shop if the ply needed treating for full immersion in salt water,they wern't to sure so im turning to you mastmate. they did tell me the ply bonding resin was good resin,my options at the moment are a west system resin coat with primer & antifoul or just primer&antifoul is this enough?

Good choice, not museum quality restoration, but sensible. After cutting the ply to shape, I would paint both sides with penetrating epoxy, let dry, than install the ply bedding it in some Thompsons roof tar, keeping the tar back from the edges so it doesn't interfere with the fiberglass.This bedding prevents voids where condensation can develop and rot the original bottom. I would then fill all the seams and edges with bondo, epoxy auto body filler, sand that fair and then use 6in fiberglass tape with polyurethane or epoxy resin on all joints and seams and finally a layer of glass cloth over the whole bottom overlapping at least 6 inches into the topsides . You can use polyurethan resin over epoxy but not visa versa, the choice is a dollar cents one. This will give you a trouble free bottom.You could probably get away with not doing the last step of covering the whole bottom with glass but I think down the line you would be sorry you didn't--------gary

My name is craig and I have a question regarding a 1963 plywood hull chris craft boat. I need to replace some of the plywood on both stern sides. Fortunatley up to the point of an existing joint.(only about 2feet from the transum forward. Can I carefully cut out the old lapjoint and make a new piece to fit in onto the the existing piece. I meanto say can I leave the existing seal/lapjoint half and add my new half lap joint piece to complete the repair and if so how do I keep it tight while it sets. The original lap joint has no seam cover other than cosmetic to hide the actual 1/4 inch seam.

I think I got ya but let's see. Usually with a plywood butt joint there is a plywood backing piece which overlaps the joint by 6in to 12in on both sides of the joint. From what you say, you need to replace the shorter of the outer pieces leaving the backing piece in place. I loose you with the question of how to hold the piece in place for usually the two pieces forming the butt are either screwed or bolted to the backing piece with bedding compound sandwiched in between. Are we on the same page?---gary

There is a heated debate going on in our yard as to wether or not a clinker(clencher) built boat is ever caulked , my view is that onlly the garboard seam is caulked .Sandpiper continues her steady progress as does my Morecombe bay prawner

1889 but i must confess to now owning a plastic gin palace a 25ft Invader great fun to use while pondering the next part of the restoration.my prawner has a massive wooden mast pine? what is the best way to check the integrety of the wood mast

You are right most of the time. Occasionally you will come across a clinker with a bit cotton string sandwiched in the lap and once in a while , if you look closely, you will notice a line of raised grain in the middle of the lap on one plank. This is done by making a slight indent in one of the planks before installing and when wet this reverses and becomes a small bulge which acts as a gasket against the adjacent plank, very effective. As far as the integrity of your mast, sounding it out with a wood mallet or screw driver handle is the best way, sharp sound ,good, dull thud, problem. Have fun with your boats-----gary

Great website! We are working on a 30ft 1933 Hillyard, Pitch Pine on Oak, Cutter rig, Iron Keel. Taking the kids on little trips around the coast of the UK.

At the moment I have the boat in the shed as all the keel bolts had rotted away- I've fitted new ones ok but now have had to adress the garboards which have been over -caulked a bit over the years- leaking and open. I have routed a 3/8ths slot and (balcotan) glued a spline to the first plank above the garboard & re-caulked with cotton between the Garboard & this splined plank. Hope you think this is OK.

My worry is that the boat has obviously stretched a bit in this area for the garboard seams to have been so open- what should I do to harden her up again? Can I simply screw in some new screws from the outside, through the garboard & into the sawn frames? Would boat nails do the job? Do I need to remove the old fastenings first? Should any of it be bolted? The planks are fastened to the intermediate steamed timbers with copper rivets- can these be hardened up or do they need replacing? Do I need to re-fix the garboard to the keelson too? With more screws?

Sounds like you're having fun. The best fix is to pull the garboards, peg all the screw holes, add some additional floor timbers and install new garboards. Short of that, pull what old fastenings you can and go with a size larger screw, sister fastenings where you can't pull them, along the keelson as well, recaulk and over the length of the seam add a copper or lead strip bedded in tar and fastened with copper or bronze nails. Also keep the rigging on the loose side so as not to exacerbate the problem. Your glueing in a spline is an acceptable practice. Enjoy your sail and get a copy of the book "The Boat that Wouldn't Float" by Farley Mowett to read to the kids during the voyage.-------- ask more as needed---g

The replanking has now started on my boat. I was suprised to see the boatyard had fitted larch planking that contained knots.. Images attached... Basically wherever there is a grey blob there is a knot. Most are less than 1/2 inch but the biggest are about an inch in diameter. As you can see the knots appear to have been treated with whatever the grey stuff is? Before discussing this with the boatyard I wanted to get an independent opinion as to whether using planking with knots is normal practice or sub-standard? Obviously if it is sub-standard it raises serious questions over the yard's competency.

Not usually a problem with small knots in larch especially if the planks are quarter sawn. Being used on the topsides gives you the advantage of keeping an eye on them and if they split you can drill them out and plug the hole. Grey stuff maybe an epoxy to seal the surface. Ideally the straighter the grain the better but with the shortage of old growth timber often one must make due. Nice boat, oldie but goodie---gary

Thanks Gary that's put my mind at ease.. frightening stuff this boat restoration.

Thanks for the comment... She's an old'un alright, built in 1944 for the British Admiralty... She'll look grand when she's been fully restored with new wheelhouse/ aft cabin and new decks etc.. Going to be a good while yet though... tons of work to do!!

No problem, ask away as needed. She has beautiful lines and I salute you for taking on her restoration, an act of love demanding patience and perseverance--------g

It's been a while I hope you are doing well. Last time I talked with you
maybe a year ago I was reworking the front deck on my 1936 Monterey. That
project eventually turned to pulling off the house and doing a lot of
rethinking what I want out of this boat. I decided I need to address the
structural aspects of the hull so I pulled the boat out onto a trailer and
have it in my yard. On the way home the planking pulled out along the
stern post on one side from the sheer down to where the prop shaft comes
through the keel ( about six feet). On inspection I found that only about
six or eight nails had been left holding this run together so refastening
the hull is high on my list of things to do. The original fasteners were
iron nails. It appears that the hull was refastened once with nails again
and for the most part everything is still holding together well. With the
exception of the ends that pulled out the planking is in very good shape.
There are some frames that need attention mainly in the mid to stern
section where a fish hold had been glassed in and rain water was trapped
underneath. All the sawn frames sound solid. The top section of the stern
post had quite a bit of bad rot that I have cut out, the piece needs to be
rebuilt but that seems to be fairly straight forward. Finally all the half
ribs that support the bulwarks need to be replaced due to rot above the
deck.
The fist thing I want to do is to reattach the planking to the stern
post. I need to repair the ends of the planks which I think I can do by
drilling the old holes out, plugging them and drilling for the new
screws. There are a couple of planks that have splits and slots where
the nails pulled through the wood. All of this damage is in the last
three inches or so right where you need them to be solid enough to hold.
On another boat in a yard once I saw where someone had spliced new ends
on a few planks using about a four to one splice. I would prefer to do
just about anything other than cut the planking but what do you think? As
far as the plugs in the old drilled out nail holes is it good to use
cedar plugs with the grain matching the plank more or less and also are
plugs with straight sides alright or should they be tapered? On the stern
post I plan to attach strips to the sides of the rabbit cuts where the
plank ends land so I can move the screws about an inch farther in from
the plank ends. When the stern separated it also pulled about seven
frames away from the keel. The frames had only been toe nailed which was
fine when the nails and the wood were new but that has been a while back
now. My idea is couple the opposing frames across the keel with steel or
stainless steel straps so they can't pull apart, again your thoughts on
this would be appreciated.
If you could give me some specific advice on what screws to refasten with
I can get started. I had figured some kind of stainless wood screw but
don't know for sure. Someone told me I should use galvanized screws since
the more closely matched the nails (for electrolysis). Anyway let me know
what you think.
thanks,
Pau

Nice to hear from you again. I see you have bit the bullet and are going for a full rehab, good for you. I see no problem in scarfing in some short plank end, with the epoxies today the strength factor of such a joint is no longer a problem. I would recommend smith&co 2 part epoxy glue, http://www.smithandcompany.org/, it has the consistency of honey and is easy to work with. The scarfs should be six inches or longer to get good overlap and maximum glue surface. Another option is to add an inner stem over the existing stern post, thus making the plank end fastenings further forward. You can laminate such a piece or cut it from a block of oak. Or do both. Using a strap on the loose opposing ribs is fine or you could add a floor timber if there is room. You would not need to taper the plugs for the old plank end screw holes, the tapering is just for the plugs over the screws, and use epoxy glue here as well. I would agree with the galvanizing screw logic for refastening except that today's galvanizing is subpar and would be stripped off the screw as you inserted it. So I would go with stainless, bronze is best, but the price is ridiculous. Ask more as needed. You are being a good steward---------gary

question: Hi Gary, I was getting ready to put my 1965 Owens 24 Cruiser in the water (I keep her on a trailer) I opened up the floor plate right at the bow where the V-berth starts and found the plywood had rotted badly. I was able to push a srewdriver right through the hull. After inspecting the bottom I see where the plywood is rotting from just along the keel up toward the waterline. It looks like the rot has overtaken an area of about 1.5 - 2 ft by 2ft toward the bow on both sides. This is an area where when on the trailer water sits when not in the water. I haven't been able to find any other bad spots on the rest of the bottom back toward the stern.

My question is, do i just start by ripping out just the rotted wood and replacing those pieces with a good marine ply? Also after replaceing the bad do I just prime the bottom and then repaint with the Pettit Bronze bottom paint I've always used? What about taping the seams?

I have read so much about West System. Is it a bad idea to put resin over the entire bottom? I always hear that just encourages ROT.

I am a bit confused. I cover the Boat at all times and in the winter she is covered with a waterproof cover and under a boat house on a trailer. Did this ROT start at this low point and just start speading?

I guess I just need some advise before I jump right in. I'd love to replace the entire bottom with new plywood but am not sure I can handle that big a job. Do you replace one piece at a time from back to from or visa versa? What would you do, The reat of this boat is Mint! Totally restored so I want to keep her and pass her down to my daughter.

I would appreciate your advise,

Thanks, Martin

Martin;
      Rot in wood results from a combination of fresh water, in which the
rot spores live, and a moist warm are that has little air circulation. If
you use your boat strictly in fresh water you should put some salt or salt
water in the bilge before you store it. Salt kills the spores.
     There is no need for you to tackle the whole bottom, just mark out the
rotted area, cut it out neatly, then cut a piece several inches larger than
the hole and install it on the inside of the hull by bolting it on the
overlapping edges to the existing hull. Where the wood surfaces overlap use
a good polysulfide caulking (like 5200) between the surfaces. Then take
another piece that fits the cutout as precisely as possible and through bolt
that to the first piece having smeared the surfaces with caulking (see
attachment 1). If a frame is in the way just adapt with using 2 backing
plates as needed or if you can cut between 2 frames do that and add a short
sister frame for fastening the fore and aft sections of the patch (2,3). I
would recommend using a fiberglass tape on the exterior seams of the patch
and then your regular bottom paint.. If the area that needs to be patched
has too much of a curve for the plywood to lay flat, use thinner pieces of
plywood laminated together with 5200 caulk.
    West system or any other penetrating epoxy is no cure-all for preventing
rot. The best is good air circulation and a bit of salt. Ask more as
needed---------gary

question: I have a 1956 Chris Craft 14 ft Barakuda kit boat that needs a new bottom, the brochure shows that it has a 1/4" thick mahogany plywood bottom. I have never done this before but do have limited experience in woodworking. I am not sure how you can plug a 1/4" thick material and have a screw that holds something. Are you familiar with the kit boats.

Yes, the first boat I built was a Luger kit 14" runabout. You just countersink the screw ever so slightly and putty over it with some epoxy putty. The minimum thickness for using a wood plug, bung, is 1/2 inch. --------have fun------gary

.
question: Hi Gary;
I am replacing anchor rollers which were mounted directly on the bowsprit of my sailboat.
The were mounted on a bronze shaft which I have replaced with stainless steel. The shaft slides in across the width of the bowsprit which is appox.14 inches. There appears to once have been plugs made of teak for each side of the bowsprit. These plugs should be about 3/8" thick by appox. 1&7/8 diameter.
Where could I obtain such plugs and should they be epoxied in and the varnished over. I have checked various sources in my area and have not been able to locate anyone who is able to make these up.

Thanks,

Mike;
You will not find such plugs on the market, especially out of teak. You have to make them. Either use a two inch hole saw, sand it down to the right diameter and fill the center guide hole with glue and sawdust or the better way is get a stock of teak 2 inch square and shape a tapered plug with a plane doing a hexagon and then octagon and finally the circle to the right dimensions. Get a piece of Teak long enough to make it easy to hold with one hand and plane with the other. It is easier than it sounds. Since one uses plugs so at a later date they can be split out to gain access to the bolt, it is best not to epoxy them in, but rather use a wood glue such as Tightbond. The nice thing about a tapered plug that results from planing versus the holesaw plug is that you can drive it in tight. Good luck-------gary.

Hi Gary,
Long time no talk.I am about to put the finished railing on my fishing boat.
I am using mahogany, 2x6 .There are quite a few turns in my railing, that is curves,
So, it is going to be 4 or 5 pieces.What type of joint should I use and how should I make it, line it up and that kind of thing to join the pieces together?I hope I am making sense.
thanks,
kevin rea

Kevin:
Nice to hear from you again. I couldn't get your page to come up but if you are working on the railing you must be getting close to completion. Congratulations. The best joint for a flat rail is a Z joint. Using a 2x6 the joint should be 12 inches long coming in about an inch at either end. I would make a template of the Z out of a thin piece of ply and merely mark the ends of the 2 boards that are to be joined. You have a choice whether to glue them together with an epoxy glue or use a flexible non glue polysulfide in the joint. I prefer the latter because it allows for the easy replacement of a damaged section and it allows for a less then perfect joint. If you use the polysulfide I would V the top of the joint so you get a nice clean caulking line. Preferably you bolt the joint together at the narrow ends, countersinking and plugging the bolt ends. You can use screws but it won't be as strong. If you are going to shape the 2X6's to the curvature of the boat, roughly estimate how much will be trimmed off and adjust the depth of the ends of the Z joint accordingly i.e. you may need to come in 2 inches instead of one. Then put the whole thing together and use nice long battens to lay out your long curves and cut it in place. Hope this makes sense, if not email me back.---------gary

Hi Again Gary,
I was wondering about a couple of things when I put on my finished railing.
It will be of phillipine mahongany, 2x6.Should I use silicon bronze screws or stainless?
I have been using silicon bronze on everything.Should I use a polysulfide caulking(glue type stuff) in addition to screws?How often on a straight part of the railing should I put screws.
I was thinking of using probably a 14x 3 1/2 silicon bronze wood screw.
Also, I am going to cover each side of the bulwarks with plywood.
I am then going to fiberglass over the whole assembly, over the top before I put on the final railing and down both sides and onto the deck. I am a bit worried about dry rot in the long run.
I was thinking that after I put on one side of plywood, that I would spray all the inside bulwarks and stuff with antifreeze.
What do you think of that?
I got the idea from: http://boatbuilding.com/content/rot.html
thanks again !!
Kevin Rea
.

Kevin:
Use either bronze or stainless fasteners since you don't have to concern yourself with electrolysis, 14 X 31/2 is fine about every 16 inches. Since the rail cap may have to be repaired sometime in the future, just seat it in a regular bedding compound, interlux makes one or you can use plastic roof patch cement like Henry's. You don't want to use a glue type substance. Coating the enclosed structure with antifreeze is a good safeguard, but the best rot preventative is keeping the fresh water out.--------gary

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello there, I have been offered a 1964 32" Grenfell power boat for $10,000. The only snag is that it requires a total re fastening. otherwise the boat is in really nice condition.

My question is, is it required to remove all the old bronze fasteners or can i re drill and screw beside them, i was thinking of using stainless screws.

What I would want to know first is why does it need refastening? Bronze fastening last a long time unless exposed to electrolysis. It is best to remove the old fastenings and redrill for a slightly larger one, but going along side is OK although one should not mix bronze and stainless for this sets up electrolysis especially in salt water.------gary

Hi Gary. thanks for the very quick response. Although i have not seen the survey the seller tells me that indeed the problem is electrolysis & yes the boat lives on the Pacific. Sechelt is on a Peninsula 35 miles N.W. of Vancouver, B.C.

I am beginning to get the feeling that this is a huge job, although i am a time served Joiner and have the skills I'm not sure I have the guts to get into this size of project or even if it worth while althought the Grenfell boats ( built in vancouver ) are well thought of and are nice looking.

That maybe a good decision, a boat that has been exposed to electrolytic problems may have hidden issues, so a rather simple task could turn into a massive one.------gary

question: Hi Gary - thanks for taking the time to answer everyone's questions....I am house carpenter tackling my first major boat project. I have a beetle cat - cedar on oak, and I am replace almost 10 or so frames that have either cracked or have just rotted. I have removed my first frame by first removing bungs or epoxy, backed out the screws (they all came out)and removed frame. To fasten the new frame, should I use the same holes, with slightly bigger screws? then rebung....or as someone suggested, rebung first, then drill new holes, refasten, then bung again..? the original holes in the planks are pretty clean, and it seems that if I were to fill the existing holes then redrill, that it would weaking the plank - it is also a lot more work...but I want to do it right, once! thanks for your time....hope to hear from you soon...
cheers - ryan

Nice boat. Follow your gut---always best to redrill old hole , upsize the fastening and rebung.------gary

.
gary,
; I have one more question for you, I am refastening some of the frames and I needed to figure out is the best way to set the wood plugs, what adhesive should I use ect... Hopefully you can help,
Thank You,
Joe

Joe:
Get a 2 part epoxy glue that you mix yourself. Right before you put the plug in dip the tapered end into the glue, that way you don't get the glue all over---------------g

question: gary,
hello, It is me again with the Vertue 25 I am very close to putting the boat back into the water, The only things left is to fasten the new laminated frames and to thru bolt the existing ones. My question lies there. Is there any good resourses for info on fasten procedures, things to watch out for troubleshooting , ect.... It seems relatively easy but there are issues such as, what to coat the screw with when setting it, should I use a washer/fitting on the inside to recieve the screw with. ect...
Any info would be appriciated. Also I am going to pay the seams below water with sikaflex. It is what was used previously, to fill strtched seams from the hual out. I would rather use redlead but I can't find it, maybe you can point me in the right direction.
Joe

Joe:
When you are using screws, get a tapered bit the right size with the countersink and plug cutter attached, available at a good hardware or woodworking store. I usually dip the end of the screw or bolt in some bedding compound {Dolfonite] before inserting, this works to seal the threads as well as lubricating the screw, especially necessary when screwing into a hardwood like oak. Same with a bolt. Sikaflex is a no no especially underwater, it interferes with the wood swelling and is a bitch to remove, should you have to. Remember, everything on a wooden boat is made to be fixed or repaired and most high tech sealers and adhesives are contrary to this. Interlux makes a good underwater seam compound. If it is too thick, mix in a little bottom paint and get the right consistency.If you have a lot of seams, get some caulking tubes and fill them with the seam compound using a vibrating sander on the side of the tube as you fill it, this gets rid of the air bubbles. Have fun, your getting close to sailing, lucky you-----------g

question: gary,
Thanks for the help with the fastening , I shoot about 300 screws last night. My new question arises from the fact that I ran out of screws and I am have trouble finding bronze screws, I live in SF and I have been try places around here, and they only have silicon bronze. The first question is bronze and silicon bronze the same in this respect, or is one better then the other when fastening older wooden boats. Also, is there a place that you can reccomend. I am assume that there is a difference, generally becuase the price is signifigantly diffrent between, the ones I started with and the silicon bronze and enlightenment on the situation would be appriciated.
Thank You
Joe

Joe;
Silicon bronze is the way to go, much stronger. As to where to get them, your in luck, I spent the last 20 yrs working on wooden boats in the china basin area of SF. There are two places I use to go, RJ lahey, I believe on 9h off of Harrison and Fasco fasteners in Alameda. Also if you have a bit of time the cheapest through the mail is jamestown distributors at Jamestown Distributors Boatbuilding and Woodworking Supplies for the----------------where are you hauled out?------g

question: hello, I have worked on boats for a number of years now on the canadian east coast. But I have a 1970 mahogany f32 on the great lakes. My plan is to sail her to the east coast, I'm converting the engines to closed cooling. But I belive that I'm going to have no choice but to refasten with bronze like most boats here. So my problem is that a lot of the original fastenings want to stay where they are. So I'm thinking that maybe I'll put a broze srcew next to the one that don't want to come out. The electrolicis (not a good speller)should eat the galvanized fastenings leaving the bronze. Now do you think that this will also lead to the wood deteriating around the fastenings or lead to problems? I'm starting to think that it may. the boat will only be in salt water for less than 4 months a year, do you think that I can get away with keeping the galvaized and replace as needed? I want to keep this boat! I have seen old carvel planked row boats with galvanized clench na!ils built around the 40s with most of the original nails being well alive. Thankyou for your time.
.

Hi:
Sounds like a nice boat. To avoid the electrolysis problems between the original galvanized fasteners and the new ones, I would use stainless or monel fasteners rather than bronze. If cost is a factor I would go with galvanized rather than bronze. You want to avoid as much electrolysis as possible.Good luck and feel free if you have further questions---------gary

question: I have a 1962 Wheeler with double carvel planking. When the boat was lifted out of the water, the straps crushed the planking (not sure if the straps were placed on a frame correctly)... Needless to say, I have holes in my boat on either side. I am going to replank, but my question is - when I do, how much of a gap should I leave in the planking to avoid buckling?

If you have a double planked hull and it was crushed where the lifting straps were, you may have much more serious problems than just the planks. There should have been plenty of support in those areas unless there is serious structural damage to the framing supporting the planks. You should have someone with experience look at the hull. To answer your question, normally double planked boats are not caulked but rely on a wood to wood seal when the planks swell.. Depending on the type of wood used and its moisture content, you must leave enough of a gap, maybe about 1/8 in per seam, to allow for swelling. Good luck and I hope your problem is not as great as the situation indicates. Let me know---------gary

question: We have a 1950 Stephens powerboat with a Port Orford cedar hull. We want to refasten whatever needs it. How do we tell where the ones are that need replacing? Dumb question? I got the obvious ones that looked wet on the filler, but how can I tell about the rest? We want to get a survey for insurance and dont want to do it twice.

Nice boat. I worked on many Stephens in San Francisco, beautiful lines. Usually one pulls out some fastenings at various areas of the bottom and checks their condition, but a boat of that age, if it hasn't been refastened, probably needs it. But considering your situation, it would be best to have the boat surveyed before you do the work so that the surveyor can give you a list of what needs to be done to satisfy the insurers requirements. That way the work you do can be prioritized .Ask as you need help----------gary

question: Gary, in re-fastening mahogany bottom planks and therefore plugging the holes, which is better, using mahogany bungs or plugging with a product such as marine tex or something similar? The originial plugs are some kind of putty that's pretty friable after 50 years, but it's not a bung. Thanks

Wood plugs are always preferable and actually faster and easier. Use a good plug cutter countersink on your drill. After screwing dip the tip of the plug in a little Tightbound glue and tap it in with the grain in line with the planks grain, this allows you to trim the plug with a sharp chisel with out having to keep checking the grain direction. To keep the plug from breaking into the hole, first hit the plug high with the chisel and see how the grain breaks than chisel it flush from the low side.-------gary

question: Hi Gary, I have a 43' 1948 Chesapeake bay built cabin cruiser, my question is I have rust stains above the water line from the fasteners. I had a local repairman look at her, he recommended refastening her, using stainless screws taking into account the galvanic action. Is there a way to remove the old nails wihtout destroying the planking? I'd like to use silcon bronze fasteners, they seem to be the best choice for the long term (dont want to do this again for long time) . I'v read that stainless oxidizes in the abscense of oxygen, i.e. when covered by filler and paint. Any help is appreceiated,......John

First, I would make sure she needs refastening. Bleeders don't necessarily mean bad fastenings and if there is no other indication ie. planks springing away from frames or cupping badly, I wouldn't do it. Although in older boats the bottom often has to be refastened do to galvanic action and electrolysis, neither of these conditions exist in the topsides. But if they are bad, you can refasten with either bronze or stainless but you will have to sister fasten to the old ones for you will never get them out. To stop the bleeders, take out the old putty and find a short piece of sailboat rigging wire and put a small piece in your drill so you can polish the head of the nail and then dab some epoxy on the head and reputty the hole. Of course you will have to repeat this process with the new bleeders that will appear yearly------good luck-------gary

I am thinking about doing some repairs to the bottom of my boat.its 20ft.it
is presently on a trailer which is making things difficult.i was wondering
if they make jacks to lift the boat off the trailer?if they do what is the
proper name for this equipment.
.

Actually they are called jack stands but they can't be used for taking a boat off a trailer. What I have done is use a couple of sturdy 4x4's across the top of the hull with cribs or horses supporting them at each end and tie a couple of ropes under the hull and to the ends forming a cradle. Then simple jack up the ends of the 4x4's, resupporting them as you go, until the boat is up high enough to remove the trailer. Then put large blocks under the keel, lower the boat to rest on the blocks and then put jack stands around the hull to support it or just use 2x4's with pads on the ends. Be sure all the weight is on the blocks below the keel, the other supports are just to stabilize it. Now you can work on it. Make sure you block it high enough so you have easy access to the bottom. Good luck------gary

question: The 1" thick mahogony plywood house on my Dyer 29 is delaminating in several places (no rot, jut glue joint failure). How can I reglue the laminations?

Well, you got a problem with the plywood glue so even if you can fix
the present delamination new areas will erupt as time goes by. You can drill some holes and try to force some epoxy glue into the delam areas and clamp them but the only real long term fix is to bite the bullet and replace the
original plywood.--------gary

question: My wife and I are completely rebuilding an old 1968 33' Chris Craft Cavalier. We have done everything from new tanks, cutting down the transom, to all new wiring and paint job - tricking it out for technical diving. Insodoing, we have changed the colour scheme from the original where the first 6" of topsides was red and the rest white separated with a strip of stainless steel. We also replaced the vinyl decking with new Nautolex and sealed it wherever it joins the wood. The stainless strip is gone and I sealed the outside mahogany gunnels (rub rail?) top and bottom with caulking. It has been in dry dock since May (it is now Christmas Eve) and I noticed that the new Easy Epoxy paint just below the rub rails has bubbled in numerous places all around the boat just below the gunnels. So, I ripped off the mahogany and found the wood underneath is soaking wet. Now, .....what to do? I thought about AWLFairing the gaps and replacing the mahogany with an aluminum and vinyl rubrail, ....or should I mill down and replace the mahogany? This is the side strip, not the top strip? I thought for sure I had completely sealed the gunnels with caulking, but it seems the rain from the recent PNW storms have found their way past it anyway. Also, you mentioned in a previous response that the wood will swell once it returns to the ocean in 2 weeks. Will this make any difference it to the problem? BTW, I patched the broken out areas of the topsides with both AWLFair and automotive bondo and sealed it with Z-Spar.

Swelling once launched will really just affect the wood below the waterline
and since you had all that rain those rub strips are as swelled as they will
get. I think your problem was that you did not bed the wood in Dolphonite
bedding compound but rather just relied on edge caulking. All wood and
hardware attachments should be bed, seated, in a proper bedding compound.
Try it again using the bedding---Awesome job overall , send some
pics----gary

I am a little confused by your answer. I should have used Dolpinite to bed
the Nautolex edges to the wood superstructure and mahogany top plate?
Everything else I used an all-weather saline resistant adhesive caulk that
was recommended to me.

You also missed one of my questions: With 2 large gaps in the very topsides
- one above the plywood (Cavalier) and the other above the solid mahogany
decking where it joins the mahogany toprail - can I fill those with AWLFair,
then put either new milled mahogany or aluminum molding? (See attached images)

If you look at the last image, "SB Decks Prepped.jpg you will see
what I'm dealing with about the gap on top. This is one of the 2 I filled
....but it still leaked under the rub rail. So, do I need to keep these gaps
open or can I seal them up? And if I seal them, how can I stop the water
from getting under the toprail?

Great shots, I more clearly see what you're dealing with but I must
admit considering your explanation of how you treated that rubrail I do not
see why it leaked unless the caulking itself was faulty.You did it right.
In the last post I was referring to using a bedding compound under the rail
as it is installed, I was assuming you were installing new ones not just
caulking the original ones and bedding is just used when solid structures
are joined together, structures that may later need repair which gluing
would make difficult. As you implied, it seems water must be getting in at
that gap between the cap rail and the rub rail unless it is getting under
the cap rail at the deck joint and working its way down under the paint. One
of the greatest difficulties in wooden boat restoration is knowing when to
fix and when to replace. When you fix you're dealing with many unknowns
which may undo your fixing but when you replace you have total control over
the installation. In your case, short of redoing both the cap and rub rails,
I would clean out both upper and lower gaps in the plywood and fill them
with a thickened epoxy filler , there is no swelling or shrinkage in plywood
so epoxy is not a problem. I would then recaulk the edges of the rub rail
using 3m 5200 polysulfide. If this doesn't work, I would then add the piece
of molding you suggested, if that doesn't work I'd get drunk and then tear
them both off and start over.-------happy holidays to you--take a day
off------g

Thanks so much for your assistance. I truly appreciate talking to a
veritable guru about this.

I have a 26 ft 64 Chris Craft caviler, 002 for that year. She was manufactured in Hayward California. I bought it in 1990, on barrels in a boat yard. I wanted a boat, the wife did not, so the price and my great tool box consideration made it happen.

At first I cleaned to bear plywood, CPES epoxy. The previous owners made some repairs with sekoflex, added a few screws along the Keelson, generally looked ok. bought a trailer, had a couple of great months on the delta, no water, other than the shaft drip two dry summers. Then the fourth year, I noticed water around the shaft log plate. Took it apart, inserted a Fiberglas tube, made a new wedge for the 6 degree angle, and reassembled.

This time, I started taking her out on the San Pablo, San Francisco bays, as you know, this was pretty rough on her. Things started to squeak, leaks from the chimes both port and starboard. Pulled the boards off, a heavy coat of Polysulfide refasten. But I could not launch that year, Work on a major project left it in dry storage for 6 years.

Then the cold weather, and the Engine 'froze' and cracked the block. Even with the Drains open. I replaced engine block, bought new exhaust logs. Back in the water, took it out for a month, put it back on the trailer, another couple of years in storage, (work again).

Then I retired, and this time it was me and the boat. However, port side Exhaust valve was open and water filled the cylinder, and another frozen engine! So, I changed the Exhaust logs to the "riser" type, new Engine, and hatch that would fit the Risers, went through the boat "sistering" the 4/4 floor frames with Honduras Mahogany, refasten and epoxy frames to floors, and started the Galley ceiling over the floors. This time she was ready for a long retirement and fishing.

She has 25 hours of running as of this date, A run to Ductsbry in the Pacific, a couple of 30 mile runs to the delta. After the last trip over 2' swells, I noticed water coming in along the Keelson Port side just in front of the Shaft log plate, with a small hair line crack, about 6" long, a bout ¾" from the edge and water coming in steady, nothing the bilge pump can't handle.

Sorry about the history, I felt you need to know the previous work. And now the questions are 1. Is this the leak that leads to the statement, "she opened at the Seam, and went down"? and 2. Can you help me on either replacing the Keelson plank, or a quick fix suggestion, is in order? I am concerned about replacing the Keelson plank and more holes in the plywood. Is this leak common or fatal? I replace the plank, how far should I go?

Quite a history of care, you are a good steward. I am not clear as to
if the leak is occurring along the keelson seam with the plywood or the
keelson has developed a crack. A solution I have used to avoid dismantling
the keelson area is to put a false keelson over the existing one, in between
the floors extending well over the plywood seam and thickly bedded and
screwed both to the keelson and up from the plywood into the false keelson.
One reason for this type of fix is that often the plywood bottom garboard
edge was glued to the keelson and over time that glue gives way and short of
pulling the bottom, one must do what they can from the inside. Hope this
helps .

question: I purchased a 31' 1969 Chris Craft Constellation. It has mahogany sides and a plywood bottom. The previous owner struck a submerged tree and tore holes in the plywood bottom, but more importantly, broke the chine in several places. It sat out of water for a couple years and has developed a lot of rotten wood along the side frame-gusset plate-knee-chine-bottom frame. I know it needs to be replaced, but I can't find any information on doing the repair. Help? I build custom furniture for a living, but this is my first boat and I want to make the repairs last and make it seaworthy. (So my wife will join me on my trips and not worry about sinking.) I've stripped the sides down to the frame so I have full access to the side of the boat. I'd love to hear from you and your suggestions. Thanks so much for the website, it has been a real blessing.

Nice project. Since you are a woodworker by trade you should have no
problem with repairs. The basic principal with wooden boat repair is that if
the repair is cosmetic do pretty much what you want ie. using modern fillers
and epoxy goo but if the repair is structural do it the traditional way ie.
the way in which the boat was built.
Normally you take the bad part apart and put it back with new wood, no trick
really. Not knowing the exact nature and extent of damage I can't say much
more except to recommend that you either find a local boat surveyor or
experienced carpenter to take a look at her and tell you what it is she
specifically needs Ask more as needed--pics help---------gary

question: Hullo: I'm beginning a restoration of a Hinkley 36 with pine planks on oak frames . My strategy is to epoxy spline pine strips into the joints and cover with a thin laminate of wood (attached with staples)then a woven roving of glass set in epoxy.The interior of the hull would recieve a coating of epoxy. What do you think? Thanks Greg

Putting fiberglass over a carvel planked wood boat is not a restoration method , rather it sets up the perfect conditions for deterioration. A wood boat is made to move, to be flexible, to swell and to be easily repaired. Fiberglass has all the opposite characteristics, so putting them together creates an untenable situation. The only way it works is if you build up the glass layers so much that you create a fiberglass hull over the original wooden one, which then deteriorates from rot caused by fresh water getting trapped between the glass and the wood. If you don't wish to restore the boat using traditional techniques,which would take about the same time and cost as glassing it, I suggest you sell it and get a fiberglass boat-----gary

Thank you for your swift reply. Would not the laminate of wood that I mentioned stabilize the planking? My last boat I built was fiberglass,but I like working with wood .I am trying to make the transition.

question: Greetings from the south coast of England ! Allow me to draw of your experience, I have a raft of questions to ask !!

Gluing strips of wood in the seams doesn't change the nature of the wood nor how it behaves in a water environment especially reacting to the stresses under sail. With wood, a fiberglass coating is only effective over plywood because it does not behave as does solid lumber i.e.. it does not swell and shrink. I think you would get more joy out of repairing a wood boat with the same methods as it was built rather than contributing to its demise by a bad compromise. It's not all that hard, to say nothing of the value of a properly restored Hinkley versus one compromised. Your first step should be to find out how much repair the boat needs by getting an experienced surveyor to do an inspection--------gary

I've just rescued a 22ft carvel hulled gaff rigged boat from the chainsaw. Probably orinally built in the 1940s-50s. She has been out of the water for several years subject to the ravages of wind of rain and so is completely dried out. All I've done so far is to scrape off loose and flaking paint below the water line 9 the paint above is still protecting the wood) and applied 2 coats of pink metallic primer and have started to ream out the seams some of which have up to 1/4in gaps. The cast iron keel has been sawn off, leaving 3 bolts for me to deal with. At this point it seems that all the ribs are OK. The planks are secured with copper nails and seem OK except where they join the stem. There are 2 split planks.

I am in the process of replacing the nails at the stem with 1.5in silicon bronze screws but this has resulted in some of the planks splitting. I was thinking of forcing these splits open and injecting epoxy to glue them together. On your site you talk of oiling dried out wood with raw ( not boiled?)linseed oil. Should I be doing this?. If so presumably I need to scrape off the primer?

I intend to replace all steel bolt fixings with silicon bronze. I've tried to knock out the fixings in the stem and knee but there are just not shifting. Can I leave them there and add extra bolts in bronze? Same applies to the keel bolts, the one I've tried seems to have collapsed upon itself... I can get the drift down about 2inches but it now wants to go off at an angle with no apparent movement at the other end. Could I not just get the keel re-drilled and drill new holes for new bolts or is there too much risk of the wood being rotted by the rusted bolts left in ?

It may be possible to get the boat craned into a drying harbour in order to get the hull to take up before caulking but I'm concerned that the pressure of water inside the hull twice a day will cause damage.. any thoughts?

I intend to fit a new deck but how should I treat the dried out wood rubbing strake and cockpit and coach house etc ?

Interesting boat and big project. Since the boat was fastened with steel I wouldn't use bronze to refasten, too much electrolysis between bronze and steel, rather go with stainless especially below the waterline, plus it's cheaper. No problem leaving old keel bolts in place, rust rot stays localized. If dreams were possible , the whole boat should sit in a vat of warm linseed oil for a couple of months, short of that get a garden sprayer and thin the linseed waydown with turpentine so it will spray easily and spray away until she will take no more. Best to strip the paint for this linseed bath. You can drill new keel holes in fact you can just drill into the keel 6-8 inches and tap the holes to recieve a threaded stainless bolt--3/4-1inch. This method creates same strength as if the bolt went all the way through.-----ask more as needed----g

Hello
I'm considering a wooden 34' sloop with some work already done, but it needs a whole new cabin, some planking, and cosmetics. Can you tell me if this sounds like a beginners project or should I wait on a little better offer, being that boat-woodworking is new to me?thank you
Roy Mantonya

Roy:
There is nothing worse for you or the boat than to start a project you can't finish. Saying that, however, if you have carpentry skills, 4 times the amount of time you think it will take, 5 times the amount of money you think it will take and dogged perseverence,I say go for it. When I started working on boats many of the projects were way over my head but that made the doing of them all that more satisfying. It would also be helpful if you could find an experienced old timer in your area who could mentor you. Good luck and feel free to ask as many questions as you like---------gary

question: Hello Gary: I am considering buying a 1938 Alden ketch, Port Orford cedar over bent
oak. It needs to be refastened after I check all the frames for cracks etc.
As old as it is, it now has galv. iron fasteners above the water line
(original specs) and bronze below the waterline. I have heard different
opinions about how many times a hull can be refastened (2, or more)and I
am trying to put a plan of attack together. The original planking is
1 3/8" and the bent frames are 2x2". Can I go ahead with a suitably
larger silicon bronze screw; or am I risking splitting the 60 yo frames
and need to consider rivets or bolts? Where are the lines drawn in renovating
a boat of this vintage? I will not Restore this yacht, but keep it very original
and use it as a bluewater cruiser. It currently has full ceilings which I
want to replace with multiple stringers. Thanks! Jerry
.

Jerry;
I have worked on many Aldens' in the past, beautiful lines but fairly lightly built.
Because of this there are usually broken frames around the turn of the bilge and most of the work I did was sister framing. As far as refastening goes, if you can pull the old fastening, put a wood plug in the hole, then drill and fasten, you can refasten many times but if you have to go along side the old fastening, 2 times is the limit. If the planks have pulled away from the frames at all, you will have to reef the seams before refastening. You might want to have a good survey done to make sure you are not taking on more than you think. Also, because the Aldens were built fairly lightly, they were never considered true blue water cruisers but rather coastal cruisers that could duck into a harbor if the going got too rough. Good luck and feel free to ask more questions------gary

Hello Gary
Looking to buy a 60"s criscraft 35-40 foot. My question is what is the best
way to preserv,restore an old wood boat, epoxy encapsulate maybe? Any books
or articles would be apreciated.
Thanks
Roger Kerkmann
.

Roger:
The best way to restore an older wooden boat is to employ the same materials and methods that were used to build her. Except on plywood, epoxy and most other fiberglass materials do not work over wood because the wood needs to breath and expand and contract. Epoxy resists this and eventually cracks allowing fresh water to get trapped between it and the wood which leads to rot. One can use small amounts of fillers and such on cosmetic areas but any wooden part that is structural and has damage should be replaced. For the books available on the subject go to www.woodenboat.com-----also check out www.boatbuilder.com--------good luck, yours is a noble endeavor-----------gary

I am restoring a 1929 26 foot Colonial Cruiser. She needs a new keel, and
when I price out the cost of silicon bronze keel bolts I almost faint. The
old ones I removed are steel and they lasted 70 years. Does stainless hold
up well? Thanks in advance for any advice.
-
Sincerely, Herk

Herk;
I would tend to stay with steel, stainless OK, since that is what the boat was built with. If the plank fastening are steel, no problem, if they are bronze you will have some electrolysis occurring which can be neutralized by sacrificial zincs on any large underwater metal fittings [metal skeg, rudder fittings, steel shoe on the keel, etc. Either way you always need a shaft zinc because the shaft is usually steel and the prop bronze. Hope this helps-------gary

question: Great site! I would like to know if there is an opinion out there as to the pros vs. cons of cold-molding an older (1930) American-built John G. Alden wooden sailboat with diagonal strips of 1/8" thick cedar stripping - in 2 layers at 90-degrees to each other.
Thanks for any information you may have on this subject.

Hi;
Actually a while back, 3 years or so, there was an article in Wooden Boat magazine about what you ask, in fact I think it was an Alden that they did it to. I remember that it was proven a viable method but it was concluded to be no less work or expense than repairing the hull in the traditional manner. I think you could find the article in the archives of the magazine at www.woodenboat.com. Also you could get further opinions both from the magazines forum as well as the forum at www.boatbuilder.com. I have worked on and sailed many Aldens, they are great sailors and very beautiful to the eye, well worth preserving no matter what method you choose. Good luck and feel free to ask questions as needed------------gary

question: hi gary,
this is bill and kristen on stormsvala once again. thanks for you help about our last questions, however i now have another one to throw at you. we have just found out that our boat(50' 1938 wishbone ketch) was built for alexander forbes by frederic fenger who i'm finding was a pretty well known ship designer back in the early 1900s. we knew that the boat had some history but have since found that her plans and alot of the correspondence between the two men are in the archives at the mystic seaport museum which we are researching. my question is this . i am removing all the bungs because of alot of fastening rot and need to replace some planks. i'm wondering if i should do a traditional replanking with some dutchmans and a refastening or if i should cold mold the hull or maybe just replank what needs replanking and seal her up tight. i want to keep her authenticity and value as high as i can but i didn't know if cold molding would hurt her historical value. i am in to!
uch with a local boat builder and he said to investigate before i made any decisions. i figured i would run it by you and then maybe get in touch with the people at mystic and find out what they had to say.
does cold molding seem like a good way out?
would a traditional replanking be better historically?
i want the boat to be as original as i can but don't want any uneeded problems down the road that i can deal with right now, while keeping her value and authenticities intact. thanks again gary, your knowledge is invaluable to us as we proceed with this exiting restoration.
thanks again bill, kristen and stormsvala.

Bill & Kirsten;
Nice to hear from you again. I understand your quandary, but I don't think you can make an informed decision without a full structural survey of the boat. You may find for what you want the boat to do, traditional repairs may be beyond your means or ability, but from a historic standpoint, traditional is the only way to go. Also, cold molding the hull has been found to be no cheaper than a traditional fix, but the skill level needed is lower. Remember at 65 you will have performance limitations as well. Get the survey and let me know her condition.-------------gary

question: hello once again gary, this is bill from camp ellis. if you remember, i am doing a complete "traditional" restoration on my wishbone ketch Stormsvala and found your input very helpful last time and hoped i could pick your brain a little. I have taken off the garboard and the first three planks to expose the keel, frame to floor fastenings, and the frame ends. i have found the the bilge has alot of iron sickness and am going to replace all of the fastenings in the frame and floors. some of the frames are shot around the frame to floor and the heels are week on most. my question is can i do a repair on these weak frame ends past the floor/frame joint and up the frame itself which is in good shape without having to do an entire steam bent framing process. wooden boat has its alternative repairs in a recent issue but the frame is cracked well up from the heel and f/f joint. a sister would work but i'm hearing that its shoddy to do it that way and the boat has si!
gnificant historical value. can i laminate the last few feet, sister, maybe run the frame into the floor timber.anything would help. we definately appreciate your service. thanks again bill,kristen, and stormsvala

p.s. the frame heels are "45'd" into the wood keel not on top of it as the picure in wooden boat.

Bill & Kristen:
Sounds like your coming right along. Yes, I believe your laminating plan is fine as long as you go up the rib a ways and step the laminations into the good part of the rib so as you creat a stepped scarf of a foot or so. I think this process is more fully explained in a printout on the naval architects site www.macnaughtongroup.com.You can email him.. Also on replacing the sick fastenings, great if you can get them out, but, if the wood is sound, you may cause less damage by sistering them. Keep up your do diligence---------g

i had another question. i am wondering, if my frame heel is a bit shoddy(i.e. there is some vertical cracks and fastening rot) and there is some cracks or sponge wood around the floor to frame joint would i be able to do this alternative repair(laminations) from the frame heel as far up into the hull as needed w/o hurting the integrity of the frame. keep in mind that the frame heels are 45'd into the keelson so they took a bit of a beating over the years. this repair, if applicable would give me better meat for the heel attachment and cure the iron sickness into the floor to frame joint. i plan on saving as much of the original frame as i can and also the floors, but i will be taking the floors out and examining them replacing as needed or laminating as needed. the floor bolts seem to be o.k. and i may grind off the bolts(rust)and still use the existing bolt shaft for the new floor fit. i could go on forever, but i guess my question for now would be the frame possibilities. i'd rather not sister if avoidable but i need a strong heel. the frames are 2 1/2 x 2 white oak(do i laminate with the same?)
i am going to take some pictures tonight and hopefully i can show you what i am saying or trying to say and it will be a bit less confusing. thanks again bill

Bill & Kristen:
I am not quite sure what you mean by 45'd into the keelson---Is the keelson notched to receive the frame end or is the end just beveled flush to the keelson? Yes, white oak and epoxy would be the laminating choice.--------the pictures you will send will answer my questions-----g

hello gary, this is bill and stormsvala again. sorry if i mess up this attachment thing but its my first attempt. if these pictures make it to you you'll see that i have some fastening sickness which has effected the frames and floors. multiple fastenings have eroded the frame heels and the floor to frames have seen better days as well. this is not the case throughout but the majority lies in the heavy bilge area. some cracks and splits have also occured at the frame to floor joints. i would like to keep the project as traditional as possible and am thinking of laminating sisters and a bunch of new floors if i can't save the ones that are there. what do you think? there is also a picture of the stem to knee joint which has come apart a bit. the iron has withered away so i think i may have to refasten that as well. maybe jack it up and epoxy the faces and re through bolt? well anyway check it out and let me here some of your thoughts. she is a beautiful boat and i want her to sail proud again whatever it takes. i have some pictures of her in her hay day but i'll see if you even get this one first. thanks again, bill,kristen, and stormsval
we appreciate all your advice.

Bill;
Pictures came through just fine. I see what you mean, some tired wood and spent fastenings. I think your general plan is still OK as long as your attaching the new wood you install to good original wood. Remove old and install new fastenings where possible and sister when removal is impossible. The floors I saw looked pretty iron sick and should be replaced but how extensive you do this is a real judgement call. The biggest part of doing a restoration is finding the compromise between time, money and extent of rebuild. With the stem timber, it is evident the boat has been out of the water for quite awhile which has resulted in timber shrinkage and open joints. When refastening don't bed with epoxy but rather use roofing tar or other flexible caulking.. When the
boat returns to the water there will be much swelling of dried out wood so you want to only use flexible caulking on matching wood surfaces. Send more pics as you like---------gary

hello gary, bill here again thought you may like to see stormsvala in her prime. thanks again for the input. those frames in need of repair, is there any way to do a laminate job on the originals or are they too far gone and in need of sisters. i hear its better to leave the old ones with a ground out laminate repair if applicable but i am wondering if thats even possible on these old things. once again thanks. bill

Bill:
Nice photos, I see why you want to treat her right. Laminating incorporating part of the old frame in the lamination is fine if you have the room to work in and that section of the rib has solid wood to glue to. It is a real judgement call what is "good" wood. If you choose to sister some ribs, it is best to go in between 2 old ribs with the new one rather than butted up to an old one---g

question: hello gary, this is bill in camp ellis again. thanks for the quick responses to all my questions, you are very helpful. the last time we spoke you suggested that i sister in between the two frames. now do you mean on the opposite side of the floor with the broken frame or sister directly to the broken frame. if the latter, do i heel that frame first and then sister to it, or can i cut off at the break and sister oppposite it. i am getting advice from all angles and i just want to make sure i don't do any shoddy repair or hurt the value of the boat by cutting an unnecessary corner. my floors are not as bad as i thought and i will be able to save alot of them. in the hard bilge area however i am going to have to replace about 6 or 7 and i was wondering if i should lag these just into the wood keel or should i go the extra mile and go into the ballast keel which would probably make me feel a little better about its condition(it was re-bolted in 86 or so). i w as planning on removing two floors at a time, cleaning and red leading the contact surfaces, replacing the old iron bolts with stainless steel and getting them into the ballast with pumped in epoxy, then fixing the cracked frames with a laminate then sistering on new laminates as far up the hull as possible to insure a strong sister. i will finish by red leading the entire area before moving on to the next two. does that sound like a good plan or is there a step or two that would make this task any easier on me. also is stainless steel good as long as i replace the entire bilge with them or should i go with something else $$$$$$$ i think stainless would be the least expensive.
sorry to keep bugging you but the information is very appreciated.
thanks again, bill.

Bill:
I like answering questions and your's are particulaily good. About the sisters, I meant that if instead of or in combination with laminating to an older frame, you also were going to add a full sister, it is best to put that sister between 2 old ribs instead of butted against one of them. I think this is to avoid so many plank fastenings in one area and also to spread out the supporting rib structure. Thus these new sisters would fall in bewteen your existing floors and just be 45'd to the keelson.They would add considerable strength to areas where you had to cut out and laminate to the old frame. It's good you can use some of the old floors, although since you have them out it would be pretty easy to make some new ones if you could find some white oak. Either way, your idea of lagging them in is OK although traditionally you would use drift bolts, made-up large nails with washer pounded into a hole 1/32 undersize. You would make them out of steel rod, peening a head where the washer would go. Using stainless is OK but good steel would last another 50 years and might be a bit more compatable with the old fastenings. If you want to attach the floors to the keel as well, you can tap threads into the keel going down just 3 times the diameter of the bolt, one inch bolt, tap in 3 inches. This is said to be as strong as a full length keel bolt, but mainly helps quell those nightmares of the keel falling off. Red lead is wonderful. Well, this didn't make your task any easier, but what the hell, this is fun, Right?-----------------------g

question: Good Afternoon Gary.
This is Sara from Montana with another question about our '41 CC. I'm now e-mailing from my brother-in-laws house. This is where we are doing the restoration. And we've come up with another question. Jon and his brother have decided to use the Interlux for the top side deck seams. They understand to use a wood sealer, then the Interlux, but how do we prevent the seams from discoloration? The varnish that we have seems to look yellowish. Is there a marine varnish that won't change the color of the caulking (interlux)?

I lied, I have another question or two. The "boys" are also wondering what they should use to apply the varnish. Would you suggest brushing it on, or could they use a pneumatic sprayer? How many total coats of varnish should there be? How many of those should be thinned? And would you do any sanding between coats?

This seems like quite a bit to be asking, but you're the best source we've found (by far) for answering our questions. Hope it's not too much of a bother.

:) Sara

Sara;
No problem, I like sharing my experience. The varnish should dry clear and eventually over the years you will varnish over the caulk, but if you are concerned about this first time, do all your varnishing first then tape both sides of the seams with the blue tape and caulk it. After you seal the wood I would thin down the first coat about 10% penetrol or thinner and then full strength for the next 4 coats. You cannot spray varnish easily because air will mix and cause bubbles, use a good brush, spend the bucks, that is for varnish. Use one of the 3m sanding cloths or fine bronze (not steel] wool in between coats. Wipe down good with tack rags. If the varnish drags on the brush ie. doesn't flow easily, add a bit of penetrol. You might check the ChrisC website and see what Varnish is favored but don't go cheap here. Take your time, this is the part for great patience and by the way, it is well known in the fine finishing biz, that women are much better at it than men. Go to it Sara.

Gary,
Just one more question on the deck seam compounds for the CC. Have you heard if anyone has tried to lay a couple coats of varnish, then the seam compound and after compound dries running new tape lines and painting the compound white, followed by finished coats of varnish. We just don't know how to keep them pure white with varnish being applied over them. Women are better than men at fine finishing biz. Quit encouraging Sara, her head is already big enough! Thanks again Gary. Jon

.
Jon:
No, I haven't heard of that. I think you are becoming a little compulsive about your "white" seams. Were you a breach birth? The varnish dries clear, it will yellow over time and must be sanded down and redone, making all the seams bright white again. I think your painting idea, although creative and thought provoking, won't work, plus if you varnish over white paint it will turn yellow as well as it ages. You can always do it one way this time and differently the next. No matter how you do it I am sure it will look great. Let Sara do the final coat------------g

question: Gary,
I have just purchased a 45' Alden cutter, built in 1951. She has had a good deal of work done to her....dead wood replacd, rudder replaced, sistered, refastened, new keel bolts, and seams epoxy-splined. Because of the later, I am going to cold-mold her professionally with the typical three layers of veneer and two layers of finishing cloth. Have you ever heard of a case where this method has not worked or been a source of future problems?
Thanks for your time - Fred

Fred:
Lovely boat, Aldens' have the sweetest lines. A couple of years ago wooden boat magazine ran an article about an older Alden getting the cold mold treatment. The conclusion was that it was very satisfactory method of restoration but labor and costs were about the same as a more traditional restoration. I have heard of others having no problems years later but I have also seen older cold molded boats suffering from delamination. So it seems a good way to go but it is very critical that the job be done right. But remember there is nothing easier to repair than a carvel planked boat and there is nothing more hideous to repair than a cold molded one.---------good luck and I hope you are sailing soon-----------gary

question: Hello Gary
I have just purchased a 28 foot Chris Craft Constellation (early 60's) that was abandoned in a boat yard for five years. There is a lot of restoration to bring it back, but I hope to have it in the water again the summer after next. One of the areas needing attention is the rear deck. the original was vinyl over ply but I do not like the look.
Why is Mahogony and Teak the wood of choice with boat builders? I have access to enough Oak or Maple at a fraction of the cost I have been quoted for Teak. Can these northern hardwoods be used for decking? I have also been told that northern mahogony is a soft wood, not the same as Honduran mahogony like the planking on the hull. Is this true?
regards
Steve.

Steve;
Nice boat, a lot of the CC's have survived do to the sensibility of how they were constucted. Hardwoods such as oak, maple, cherry, walnut etc. do not hold up well to weather and to the expansion and contraction they are exposed to on boats . They check and crack and unfortunately are very susceptible to rot. Teak is the magic deck wood, not so much for its hardness but for its ability to resist the weather do to its natural oils plus it provides the best non-skid surface and can be easily maintained with an occasional salt water wash down. Also, it is rot resistant. Mahogany, either Honduras or Philippine( not really Mahogany but in the species family) are usually not used for decks that get any traffic for they are not very abrasive resistant and don't look very good oiled and if they are varnished they are slippery as hell. Fir that has been air dried is ok but is usually painted out. So, to me it is either spring for the teak (1/2in x 2in strips over 3/4 maine ply) or glassed over 3/4 marine ply. Hope this helps--------------gary

Gary,
Have read an awful lot of your correspondence with others and would like to say thank you from do it yourself crowd. I own a 1967 40' Chris Craft Constellation with a soft top. We have over the last few years done and had done a lot of work. We have re-powered, re-wired, re-painted, re-plumbed and re-decked our boat. (new meaning to hole in the water) Anyway, we are having persistent problem with water coming in the salon windows, as well as the back aft cabin windows. We have entirely removed and replaced/repaired the glass and original tracks that the glass slid in. All to no avail! Have talked to the boats 2nd owner who acquired her in 1978 from the original owner who was a Chris dealer. He owned the boat until 1996. He said it was a continual problem, and has the receipts of the work done over the years. The gentlemen he sold the boat to (God bless him) loved caulk, and bought it in five gallon buckets! When we bought the boat we had it 2 months before we pulled her and started on a 10 month rebuild plan. At that time we pulled all the nautilex as well as the decking and replaced all of the bad deck members that were caused by the leaks. We then re-decked with marine ply and bought rough sawn teak and made our own new teak decks. The leaks are coming in from the windows through the ineffective plastic tub slider system that Chris originally installed. I have done a lot of water testing with a hose to make sure that the windows are the culprit. At great expense as well as time, we replaced/repaired this system to original condition. That was when I met the owner who told me how bad a system it was from the start! We are getting ready to pull out for the winter and I want to replace the windows completely. I cannot stand another year of water getting in and destroying the work that is already been done, not to mention soaking wet bedding etc.. Any suggestions on windows and or mounting systems. Have looked at a few on the web, seems like a surface mount makes better sense. No water to build internal gutters for inside the boat if you will. We live in Michigan, have talked to all the big Chris Craft guys around the state, the do not do work on cruiser style bigger boats. Sorry to be so long, if you need more specifics will be glad to tell you what little I know. Any suggestions on windows or mounting styles would be greatly appreciated. Again from us novices, thank you for sharing you knowledge.

Jill;
I appreciate your thanks. Quite a project you have going; much accomplished already. I wish I had a sure fire method for fixing those leaky sliding windows but I don't. I have used metal, plastic and wood tracks and have had little success over time with any of them. Your conclusion to surface mount them was my solution as well. It was the only way I could guarantee watertightness. Good luck and feel free to ask when needed------gary--send some photos if you have them.-----g .

question: I have an old(1960's) clinker-built 21' sailing boat, mahogany on oak , that has been sat on land for seven years , the last year under tight tarps. Now the wood is softening in the bottom planks, because the whole hull had been stripped of paint. Also the seams had all been sikaflexed and the damp got under the sikaflex and has softened the wood. With quite a lot of effort , you can use a screwdiver like an awl and puncture a hole through the planks. Can it be restored or is it too far gone? Can I get a penetraing epoxy such as they seem to use in the USA for this kind if repair? There is no spongy wood anywhere. How do I check the fastenings.(Because if they need replacing I'm looking at major work and i don't think I have the time or inclination to take it on. Hope you can be of help , with thanks , Oli Senior

Hello:
Sounds like an interesting boat. It is very difficult to make any structural judgments about a wooden boat that has been high and dry for seven years. You can track down rot but any other analysis can only be done after the boat has been back in the water for some time so it can swell and tighten up. Then you can test the fastenings and see the extent of caulking needed. I would get all the sekaflex out and put in roof patch tar wherever the seams are open. This will seal the seams and the excess will just squeeze out. Put it back in the water. After a couple of weeks, mark where it is still leaking , haul the boat, pull a couple of fastenings and see their condition. The penetrating epoxy you speak of is only useful for cosmetic repairs, not for structural integrity. In fixing a wood boat it is always best to use the same materials and techniques that were employed in its building. Good luck and I hope she proves to be sound.-------gary

Hello my name is jeff, Just bought a 1954 28.5 wood sloop. Designer & type are a mystery. she was built by Portland Boat wks (on title), she Looks identical to a cascade 29, her keel, 2 large windows, gunnels, cabin layout & top are identical, I know that doesn't give you much, but if you look at a cascade 29 that is the boat. I talked with Hans at the cascade yard he simply said it was a copy of the 29. "Mischief" was built several years prior to any cascade or
Chinook. If you have any info that might help.
Finally here is my questions she's bean on the hard since the early 80's. Dead wood is split in several areas, some loose fasteners towards rudder skag, which is also loose and split. Both areas report sharp. Would it be correct to drill and inject to re-bond splits in place with a epoxy? Second what is the easiest way to remove stripped fasteners? my method is futile. great page, great advise.
.

Jeff;
Sounds like an interesting boat. With a wood boat that has been dry for eight years, there is very little you can analyze about its condition until it has been wetted out for q couple weeks and swelled up. Most of the splits in the deadwood you see are normal checks exaggerated by the woods shrinkage, as our most of the loose fastenings. I would fill all the cracks and potential leaky places with roofing cement, tary stuff, and put her in the water. Pull her back out after 2-3 weeks, scrape off the tar that has been squeezed out of the swelled cracks, and do the repairs that still seem necessary.Outside of penetrating epoxy to fix cosmetic soft spots, keep epoxies and polysulfides away from a wood boat. A wood boat must be repaired the way it was built. There is no simple way to remove old fastenings except persistence and inventiveness but often it is easiest to sister with a new one. Good luck and ask more as needed---------gary

Thanks for your reply. Just FYI, I found Mr. Smith not helpful and rather
insulting. But the West System folks actually called me in reply to my
e-mail and were very realistic and helpful while not pushing their products
and honestly offerring the pros and cons of the alternatives. Nevertheless,
I sure appreciate your help.

Can you give me a quick opinion on the following:

I know it is ideal to replace and repair wood with the same type of wood. My
boat is constructed out of Red Honduras (sometimes referred to as "American"
Mahogany. It is very expensive and not very available here in Wisconsin.
However, I have an endless quantity of very high quality kiln dried white
oak--at minimal cost through a friend who owns a mill. I know the white oak
is as rot resistant as Mahogony but it would be a "different wood". How
much trouble do you think I would run into if I:

(1) used that for frame repairs, sister ribs, etc?
(2) used that for hull planks above and below the water line?

I am not concerned with the issue of comparable resistance to rot. I am
just unclear on the reasons for using the original type of wood and what
problems are associated with not doing so.

I am concerned about quality and the look of originality, but not terribly
big at this point on total originality.

Thank you for your kind assistance.

Rick:
Sorry to hear about Smith, I guess he's become more of a curmudgeon than I remember. The main reason for using the same or similar woods to the originals in boat repair is to keep the stress factors under different conditions fairly uniform. Different woods respond differently to stress as well as the effects of swelling and shrinkage in a water environment. Oak is quite different from the American Mahogany when is comes to these factors and they would cause problems used in close proximity such as planking but the oak would be fine for the structural backbone, ribs, floors etc., pieces.Unfortunately, kiln dried wood is not a good choice for structural members on a boat for it absorbs water like a sponge and will swell drastically and if the water happens to be freshwater, rot will soon follow. Air dried is much preferable. For the planking I would look for some local woods closer to the characteristics of the Mahogany, quarter sawn fir or spruce are possibilities but try to stay with hard woods for the boats skeleton. You may have to find a mill.----------g

Thank you for your very, very helpful reply. I am very grateful and (just
FYI) will certainly "follow to the T". I might add that I am elated with
the content, in that I also have an endless and very low cost supply of air
dried Oak. It will help me out a lot to use it in the structural repair
only. Thanks again! Rick Jennings.question: Hello Gary,
I stumbled across your website searching about restoring old wooden boats, and was glued for the rest of the day, top stuff! The reason for my search is that I have a beautiful old Sunset design 34' yacht, which unfortunately is in a bit of a state of decay, and I would love to restore her to her former glory. Although I am a sailor from wayback I know pretty well nothing about traditional boat building, other than what I have learned this afternoon. The biggest issue to sort out is that it has been on dry land for 4 or 5 years now and of course the timber has shrunk. I gather it is what you would call a carvel design, although rather than caulking there is a soft wood strip about 1/4" or 3/8" between each plank, many of which have now come loose and some even fallen right out. The planks themselves seem to be in good order and still secure to the ribs. Looking at the residue on the strips it seems thay were originally fixed with a hard putty type of product. Above th!
e waterline the strips are not the full thickness of the planks, which on the inside seem to butt together. Below the waterline they are the full thickness of the planks, so the missing ones allow you to see right through! What is involved in refloating her, can we reuse the original strips or do we need to remove all the loose ones and start again? Many have come loose but are still in place. Can the strips be glued in solid, or with a soft product, or can they just be held in place until the wood expands again? Some of the end joints along the planks are also separating, they appear to be tapered and originally glued. Could they be filled with epoxy and fared back? There are a few other hurdles (a bit of dry rot, ....) but my main concern at this stage is whether or not we can practically get her back in the water again! The truth is we have just had a sailing holiday in the Whitsunday Islands near the Great Barrier Reef off Queensland and have come back with a se!
rious itch to scratch! I will keenly await your advice. Kind regards

, Michael

Michael:
Sounds like an interesting boat. The biggest problem with a wood boat that has been high and dry for a long time is that do to shrinkage all sorts of changes happen that if "fixed" in that dry condition will blow apart when the boat is refloated and the timber swells again. Spiling the seams with a soft wood is an acceptable alternative to cotton caulking although I prefer the cotton for the very reason that one would not face the task in front of you. First I would go ahead and epoxy glue the tapered plank ends making sure to not just fill the void but clamp the opposing pieces together. Because you have to allow for much swelling when the boat returns to the water, the splines cannot be reglued to both sides of the seams, rather I would glue each spline to one seam edge (use some little wood wedges in the opposing edge to hold the spline in place) and use a flexible caulking, such as roofing tar or a polysulfide, on the other edge most of which will be pushed out of the seam when they swell. Mainly, in all the repairs you do just keep in mind that the boat will change shape not only do to the swelling but also do to the stresses a sailboat experiences under sail. If there are checks, openings, in the solid keel timbers, fill them with flexible material as well. When you refloat the boat she will probably take on considerable water until she swells up, 5-7 days. You can slow this normal leaking by putting fine sawdust into the water and swirling it with a paddle so the sawdust sinks. It will clog the leaky areas but still allow them to swell. Have fun and enjoy the process. Feel free to ask more as needed and thanks for the compliment on the site .-----------gary

I have a german built folkboat, carvel construction, oak BWL and mahogany AWL. The ribs and floors are of rubinie (I don't know exactly what rubinie as a wood species is, but that is what they call it in germany. The color is hard to say because it is under several coats of linseed oil, maybe something like mahogany in color but a bit darker and very hard). The stem, stem knee, gripe, stern post, etc. are oak. My questions are the following:

Just forward of the mast (deck stepped) two ribs are split/cracked at the ends where they make contact with the stem knee, one on port and one on starboard, directly across from each other. What would be the most practical way to fix this. The cracks are not big, maybe 2-3" and do not move when I push on them. Nevertheless, I want to do something before it gets worse. Since they are across from each other, my idea was to fit a small floor out of mahogany or oak that would fit snug against the ends and go up the rib for another 6" or so. I would only use a good polyurethane caulk/glue to hold it in place so that I don't upset the origional balance of the boat. What would you do?

Next, a former owner fitted a depth transducer just forward of the keel, on the centerline of the boat, and right through the stem knee. It has been installed maybe 15 years or so and there has never been any problems. However, I don't like it and plan on doing lots of cruising this summer, much of it in the ocean and am concerned about structure. Any suggestions? My idea was to remove the transducer, make a new floor that would fit over the hole, and hold it in place with a bronze bolt in the origional hole and fastened snug on the inside. Naturally with lots of goo to keep the water out and a polyurethane caulk/glue everywhere else. Is this going to help at all or am I getting ahead of myself?

Next, at the turn of the bilge, once in the salon, and once below the cockpit, are two ribs with cracks that do not go all the way through to the planking. The cracks are about 2-3" long. Here I have no idea. Any practical ideas?

Great boat, I am looking for one myself. Often when the frames are steam bent the fastenings occasionally cause minor splits along the grain which can look like cracks but are not structural. You can mix up some epoxy with a bit of thickener and fill the split to strengthen the frame and seal it from fresh water intrusion. But if you are a bit concerned about structural integrity, your idea of adding a floor is OK, but do not glue it in rather use fasteners so there will be some flexibility . The depth sounder transducer hole, however doesn't require a floor but merely epoxy in a hard wood permanent plug. The aft split ribs I would treat as the ones above. Over time keep your eye on the planks under the cracked ribs for any sign of movement away from the rib. Normally longitudinal surface splits on steam bent ribs are not a structural problem but any lateral, cross grained cracks cause structural weakness and call for frame replacement or sistering---good luck, enjoy your wonderful boat and feel free to ask more as needed-----gary

question: I have a sparkman & stevens deb 33 in need of complete restoration and tlc. It is mahogany on laminated iroco, teak decked with a lifting keel and has been flooded for 6 months or more. Hull is carvel but with splines between every horizontal plank! some small parts of rot near the uderside of the transome but otherwisw sound. Is this a good constructed boat and will it repair to as new? any help appreciated.
regards, Harry.

Harry;
Interesting boat, it may be a Sparkman & Steven's design but I have never heard of them using such construction techniques as you describe. Carvel planking with glued splines usually requires fiberglassing over in order to resist the natural expansion and shrinkage that comes with a wood boat. Not a good scenario unless the glass is extremely thick and than you have added a lot of weight. Also, I have never seen a retractable keel on a wooden boat. I think you are looking at a custom boat whose builder was a bit naive. I can't say more without more details but I would recommend being cautious about getting into a restoration job. If the basic construction process was ill conceived and flawed, rehabilitation will indeed be a hole in the water into which you pour vast sums of money. It may be worth your time to contact Sparkman & Stevens and see what they say or go to the forum at www.woodenboat.com and ask for advice. Good luck -----gary

I am the proud owner of a fine boat that is in need of some tender loving care (TLC). She is mahogony on oak ribs .It is my intention to restore her to her former glory

my only real concern over the work is that i have to replace 3 ribs and 2 4ft lengths of planking at the stern, the ribs can best be described as double recurve in that over their length

they take the shape of the hull and then change direction into the bilges. Question 1 should i replace the whole rib or scarf in a piece above the damaged rib ( 7ft the crack is2ft from the bottom). Q.2 Should i use green oak or is there a more workable wood that could be used . I fear this will not be the last imposition on your knowledge.
kindest regards and best wishes

Dave

Dave;
Nice boat. Scarfing bent ribs is not a good idea because the stress distribution is changed drastically, so, if you have access, I suggest you replace the whole rib and yes green oak properly steamed is the way to go if you are to stick with tradition, otherwise laminating up a frame either in place or on a jig is another possibility and for this you would use a more seasoned oak so the epoxy glue would have better saturation. Feel free to ask more as needed-----gary

question: gary
I have just crawled out of the bilges in Sandpiper and i have made good progress in surveying the restoration requirements (i did this after allowing a cooling offperiod) and i am very pleased with what i have found so i can now concentrate on the hull repairs first then move onto the renewal of the decking and cabin . My questions are as follows

1
As the boat will be out of the water for many months will this cause any real problems when i put her back in, for example would it help if she was put back as a bare hull then taken out to fit the engine and decks etc.

2
It looks as though i might stuggle getting decent straight grain green oak so any suggestions on a suitable alternative for the ribs (last 4 at the stern).

3
Paint removal,when she was made the hull was varnished inside and out . I know this will make a lot of extra work but she would look stunning.I have had various suggestions including sand/bead blasting,burning and paint stripper what is the norm for this type of self inflicted pain !!!!!!

regards
Dave

Dave
Sounds like you're getting yourself into a large and worthy project, so let me first give you some hard earned advice, most wooden boat restoration projects fail because the enthusiastic owner undertakes too much at one time and gets buried in time and money problems. To do a successful restoration you must first prioritize what needs to be done, the structural repairs being number one and cosmetic considerations at the opposite end--ie your ribs first, the deck than the cabin, then worry about stripping the interior. Also failure follows if you don't allot enough time for the work and especially if you don't factor out the jobs over a realistic period of time ie; one year do the ribs, the next the deck, the next the cabin and so on, plus you use the boat in between jobs which keeps the hull swollen and in shape.-- So--to your questions;

1)--It is always preferable to do the work in large enough intervals that the boat is not out of the water so long that she dries out thoroughly, but if the boat will be out for an extended period, no harm will be done if she is properly supported and you will have to do some recaulking of the seams before launch and once in give her plenty of time to swell. The only part of your work that may change after launch would be the engine alignment........

2)--- It is easier to find oak flooring strips and laminate up the ribs on a jig or in place using epoxy glue

3)--- The removal will be considerably easier if the paint was applied over the original varnish, but if not, both burning and stripping tend to push the paint into the grain of the wood, so my preference is gentle waterbead blasting

Hope this is helpfull and feel free to ask more as needed-------gary

question: Hi Gary:
I am currently thinking about restoring a 26' Bogue Sound (New Haven type)Sharpie. The hull is in relatively poor condition, but I can get her for free, and since I previeously owned the boat for several years in the eighties I would like to ressurect her in a manner that would be economical, durable and as maintenance free as possible. Most of the deck, some of the bottom planks(cross-planked 2X6 heart pine), and part of the keelson and centerboard trunk are in need of replacement. The stem, rounded transom, hull sides (bald cypress), chine logs and deck framing appear to be sound. My thoughts were to get the boat under to shelter, remove and then replace the bad framing components and bottom planks with pressure well seasoned treated pine or heart pine, if available while replacing all of the galvanized fittings with silicon bronze or stainless. Then cover the carvel planked hull with a thin sheet of marine ply sheathed in light cloth and epoxy. Next cover the recaulked or splined bottom planks with tar and cover with copper sheathing up into the trunk. I have used this method in the trunk previously and it worked very well, so I thought why not do the entire bottom letting it come up to a few inches above the waterline and thereby covering the lower portion exopy sheathed topsides. This would eliminate having to paint the bottom each year. I haven't ever seen you recommned sheathing carvel planking with thin plywood and then covering that with glass/epoxy. Is this a legitimate option for a hard chined boat like this, and if used would it prevent the need for splining/filling joints in the topsides prior to sheathing? The ply sheathing and original planks would be sealed with epoxy coating prior to installing ply and covering the exterior with glass. Once the hull was restored, I thought I would cover the decks with two layers of ply and sheath that with glass/epoxy, lapping the the topsides by an inch or so. I planned on covering the hull to deck joint with a varnished false wale all the way around the boat like it currently has. What are you thoughts on this plan? I am open for any suggestions, but am a little adverse to just splining/ filling and then covering with glass beacuse I live in the southeastern US and because I don't know how effective epoxy is at laminating glass to cypress due to the high content of natural oils in this wood. I am not concerned about the added wieght of the ply sheathing, because this boat has always sailed best when loaded down with weight. In fact, I have seen antique photos of these sharpies sailing along quite nicely while overloaded with peolple and/or oysters to way above intended the waterline. Since she carries no ballast other than people, I beleive the added weight prove beneficial.

You got no problem here. Seems like you have thought this out carefully and your solutions make sense. With a tired carvel planked hard chine boat, plywood sheathing glassed over is a good way to go. When I have done it, I usually bed the ply in some wet/dry tar roof patch to eliminate condensation between the ply and planks. I also would suggest looking at using a lagging compound over a screen cloth for a deck finish versus fiberglass. The lagging, available at plumbing supply houses and waterproof after painting, is more flexible than glass and easy to repair. Glad to answer anymore questions but seems to me your ready to go. Take some pics along the way and and send them on.------gary

Hi, I have just recieve into my possession a 38 foot 1930 ex RCMP (I am Canadian, eh)wood cruiser. she has been on dry land for some time and all the planks have shrunk so gaps of up to a half inch exist between the planks. So I am assuming I should replank the whole bottom? I have woodworking skills, but no knowledge of boat construction. The previous owners had started working on her and have sistered some ribs with plywood, is that an ok thing?. The planks seem to be cedar, would that have been a common wood used? what wood should I use for the replanking? Thanks for any help you can give me. my hopes are to restore her to as original as possible.

Hi;
You have a wood boat, your life will never be the same again . First, No radical moves. Cedar planking is AOK, plywood frames is not, frames should be oak or similar hardwood or strips of the same laminated up with epoxy glue. Most of the seam gaps are do to lack of moisture in the wood and will disappear when the boat is back in the water but in the meantime you can start wetting down the bottom by stapling towels or burlap to the planks and keeping them saturated. A couple weeks of this and you will see those seams close up. Normally with a wood boat that has been out of the water for several years the best procedure is do the minimum needed to get it floating again and then after it has been in the water for a few months, having totally swelled up and regained its shape, haul it back out and do the work necessary. Having carpentry skills will help you greatly , just trash your square and get a new angel set and ask a lot of questions of the right people, there is a lot of wrong boatyard advice out there , stick with those who make or have made their livelyhood from working on wood boats . And lastly stick with the techniques and methods that were used in building the boat in the first place. There are many high tech products that are very seductive but in the long run the tried and true methods work the best.-- have fun and ask more as needed-------gary

Hi Gary,

Thanks for you wisdom, and the lightning speed in which you delivered it. In your message you had mentioned stapling towels or burlap to her hull and keeping it soaked. would something like carpet underlay work? as burlap is hard to obtain, and I am afraid of how many towels her hull would consume? You had mentioned oak as the proper material for the ribs (frame) I have read that there are only a couple of species of oak that are suitable, what would be your recommendation?
A few of more questions if you don't mind. should I deplank her where and when I replace her frames? if so, she is fastened with brass rivets, what would be the best procedure of removal, and what should I use to refasten them? I of course have many questions, but I will try and place them appropriately through-out her rebuild as I don't want to suffer from
information overload.
Thanks again, you are already an inspiration to me.
Torben

Torben;
Yes, the carpet padding works great, or anything else that will hold moisture,also if you have good access to the hulls interior you can put the material inside against the planks. For the frames, white oak is best, red is OK but more susceptible to rot, if it is to be steam bent, the oak should be green , ie. high moisture content. There are also other exotic hardwoods that are OK but they are usually quite expensive. If you laminate the frames, the oak should be dried, air dried is best but kiln dried OK. Most oak you find will be kiln dried, the green usually has to be found at a mill or specialty lumber shop. Great the planks are riveted, best way to fasten. Easiest way to undo a rivet is to grind off the clench that holds on the washer. You can get rivets or any fastening at
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/?ltaj8909------BOATBUILDING%20SUPPLIES
If you are replacing bent frames, it is often helpful to remove a plank at the point of extreme bend, so you can easily clamp it, also some remove the garboard plank, bottom-most plank, for the same reason. Much depends on how much interior access you have. Feel free to keep asking questions. Another good information source is the forum at www.woodenboat.com-----gary

Hi Gary,
Again thanks for your wonderful wisdom. I have been researching on steaming and bending the oak frames, and have found many interesting and informative sites. Unfortunately I am still somewhat in the dark, as all of the sites I have found deal with small (1" or less) oak frames for canoes or other small hulls. I am dealing with the size of planed 2x4 stock, and some with double bends. Before I go too deep into that, could you explain to me a bit more about the forming and use of laminated oak stock for the frames. While I am writing, a question on the few planks I feel need replacing (butt ends are weak and slightly deteriorated). should I replace the plank as a whole, or just cut out the weak portion and replace it?. or is there a minimum lenght that should be used for planking?
Thanks so much.
Torben (restorer of the 'REDCOAT')
PS: in some of your forums I noticed you mentioning boat building schools, I thought I would pass this site on to you for your review. http://www.boatschool.com/

Torben;
Yes, it is frustrating to cut out lengths of good planking just to fix bad ends, but you should go at least 3 to 4 frames and the adjacent plank butts (joints) should be staggard the same amount or more . To avoid all the hassle, I often put in a false stem or sternpost attached to the original in order to get to the good plank wood for refastening , then you can cosmetically repair the ends without refastening worries. Laminating is as it implies, laying up thin layers of wood, epoxy glued together. The trick is pulling it off in a confined area and figuring out how to keep the layers from sliding all over the place as you are laying up the pieces, I usually dry fit first and drill a hole through layered frame and plank to put a bolt through when I lay up the glued pieces. Another way is to take off the lines of that area of the hull and make a jig to lay-up the frame outside the hull and then install it in one piece, if you can get it in. Unfortunately in the tight bends, steam frames , over time , often crack at right angles to the direction of the bend. Apparently, when steamed , the longitudinal wood cells at the tight turn compress and actually turn 90 degrees basically creating a cross grain, where a stress crack eventually arises. Of course this does not occur with laminated frames, but because laminated and steam frames react to stress differently, it is best to be as consistent as possible throughout the hull ie. mix the 2 as little as possible. But , all is a compromise, including wooden boat restoration .--g

Thanks Gary,
That was great info, I will stick to the original solid bent frames as I
would like to keep her as strong and as original as possible.
Although I am not sure exactly what you mean by false stem/ stern post?
Would they be like short sistered framing?
Thanks again,
Torben

Torben;
What I was referring to was actually fitting in and bolting another timber behind the existing stem or stern timber such that they are beveled to fit tightly to the planks allowing you to add new plank fastenings into good wood, thereby avoiding messing with the plank ends beyond cosmetic repair--------g

Hi Gary,
I am back from my holidays afar and ready to dig in to her rebuild. I have
located sources for white oak, but none match the dimentions I require (1
1/2" X 2 3/4" ) I can however obtain obtain planed 2X6 white oak stock.
Could I rip this stock in half without compromising it's integrity for
bending and strength? Also all the available selections of oak have been
kiln dried. Through reading, I understand that KD is ok, just a little
harded to bend.
Thanks, Torben

Torben:
Yes, finding good green bending white Oak is difficult and usually only available from a mill or local farmer. Not only that, but one must pick the boards carefully, they must be straight grained and quarter sawn.Thin kiln dried lumber can be resaturated and adapt to steam bending, but something 11/2 thick probably will stay brittle and break on you. The bottom line is that it is much more convenient to laminate pieces of white oak flooring. If you wish to pursue the green oak , see if there are any local furniture makers and talk to them about a supply. Steaming is a lot more fun and less messy than laminating-------gary

Well hello
The project is coming along at a pace.The starboard side of the hull has been stripped to bare wood ( rubbing strake to boot top) what a task, the careful use of paint stripper and scraper has left a reasonable surface. I have been advised that if i work a final layer of paint stripper on using wire wool and rinse it off with cellulose (auto paint thinner) this will remove the remaining vestiges of paint ,what do you think?. Now to the items in my subject header. I would like to lay a wooden deck and construct the cabin of planks rather than use ply I realise this is an expensive option but i do not want to compromise the end product on cost over time issue. What are your thoughts on materials for the topsides?. Next question ! Now that the hull is stripped bare is there anything i should or could do to preserve the hull planks from drying out given that i have not yet decided on the final finish ie varnish ,oil or some other method , your comments would be most welcome .

David:
Sounds like you are coming along just fine. The suggested final paint removal method sounds AOK. After the hull is smoothed to your satisfaction I would saturate the planks with linseed oil thinned down with turpentine and, if possible, heated. This will enliven the dried out wood and will not interfere with the final finish as long as that choice is oil or alkyd based, ie. no epoxy or urethane. As far as the deck is concerned, I appreciate your desire to stay traditional, but the bottom line is you can't beat plywood for strength and ease of finishing the surface. Especially with older wood boats, the rigidity of plywood helps to stabilize the hull. Plus it is cheaper and labor wise much less time confusing.---------gary

question: HELLO,
I LIVE IN NEWFOUNDLAND, CANADA. I HAD GIVEN TO ME AN OPEN FISHING BOAT WHICH WAS USED IN SALT WATER OF COURSE. IT IS IN NEED OF PAINT STRIPING AND REFINISHING. THE ORIGINAL FINISH WAS MARINE PAINT WHICH WAS USUALLY DONE YEARLY. THE BOAT HAS BEEN OUT OF WATER FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW. A COUPLE OF HULL PLANKS HAVE ROTTED IN THE BOW AREA WHICH I HAVE REMOVED BACK TO SOLID MATERIAL EXPOSING THREE TIMBERS WHICH HAVE ALSO ROTTED AND NEED REPLACING. THE REST OF THE BOAT SEEMS SOUND BUT I WILL NOT KNOW FOR SURE UNTIL ALL THE PAINT HAS BEEN STRIPPED AWAY. WHAT IS THE BEST AND QUICKEST METHOD TO REMOVE ALL THIS OLD PAINT. IN ADDITION TO THE PLANKS AND TINBERS THAT NEED REPLACING THERE ARE SOME PLANKS THAT SEEM TO HAVE A SPONGYNESS TO THEM HOWEVER THERE IS NO VISABLE SIGNS OF ROT. IS THIS A PLACE WHERE CPES CAN OR SHOULD BE USED? I'VE READ LOT OF YOUR ANSWERS CONCERNING ROT AND DRY ROT AND HAVE LEARNED A LOT, THANKS. AM I CORRECT IN INTERPETING THAT A NEW PLANKS' EDGES MUST BE BEVELED FR!
OM OUTSIDE TI INSIDE, IF SO HOW MUCH OF A BEVEL?
IF THE COTTON CAULKING MATERIAL IS LOOSE DOES IT HAVE TO BE REMOVED AND REPLACED OR CAN IT BE RE-TAMPED AND THE SEAMS FILLED?

THANK YOU,
CARL PEAR

Carl;
Good project--from the bottom up. You can re-tamp the cotton as long as the inside seam is not so far open that the cotton would drive through. If it is, you have to wet down the hull until the planks swell enough to avoid this. Yes the planks are beveled for the above reason, touching on the inside and from 1/4 to 3/8 on the outside. Yes, penetrating epoxy will work fine on the spongy rot free planks but if that sponginess is extensive, you should replace the affected planks. For paint removal use a good, expensive, stripper and a very sharp scraper. Good luck with your worthy project, ask more as needed-------gary

HELLO AGAIN,
IT'S GREAT TO GET A PROMPT REPLY, THANKS. I UNDERSTAND YOUR ANSWERS BUT I HAVE ANOTHE QUESTION. LETS SAY THE OLD PLANKS ARE OFF AND THE OLD TIMBERS ARE OUT AND THE NEW TIMBERS ARE READY TO BE PLACED. ALL FITS WELL SO HOW TO YOU ATTACH THEM TO THE KEELSON?
THANKS AGAIN,
CARL PEAR

Carl:
Usually the keelson is notched to recieve the frame without a fastening, the fastenings being in the planks plus in a floor timber that goes athwartship. The floor timber being attached to the keelson via a driftbolt , large nail peened over a washer, or a lag bolt, and or a keelbolt (sailboat).------gary

question: Dear Gary,
Thanks for your website, I have found more info in a few minutes of reading your reponses than weeks of searching obscure magazine articles. Thanks for helping us keep wooden boats in the water!
My situation: Bought a beautiful project boat on the net based on photo's, research and a knowledgable seamans word; A Nova Scotia built 1988 34'Jay Benford designed Pinky Schooner, local pine or spruce carvel over oak. At present stored on the hard 1 year awaiting 1/2 dozen plank end decay repairs...Q-How would you suggest go'in at it? Also there is considerable rot at the bulwarks but that can wait till she is wet again I think. Q2-Can one use alternate wood species(more rot resistant)for patching in with the existing pine ( I am assuming the local pine is the problem in the first place or too much fresh water)?
I am a hobby viking style boat builder/artist accustomed to building by eye...Q3-How much time would you guestimate on a plank-ends replacement/repair for one with good but neverdunit before wood skills?
Thanks so Much!
Lee

Lee;
It's the fresh water and no air circulation, not the wood. Nice boat, good project and thanks for the strokes. First take care of any frame replacements, then do the planks. Local wood is fine, cedar is great. If there are planks requiring steaming, get green lumber , other wise air dried is best. When you say plank -ends replacement, I am not sure what you mean, if it is short end pieces at the stem or stern you must do longer lengths, 4 or 5 frames worth anyway and the joints must be sufficiently stagard. If it is just the plank-ends you can fit in an inner stem or stern piece and fasten the planks to that instead of replacing the plank. Also, antifreeze kills rot spores, so spray it around where you suspect potential rot exposure. Boat carpentry skills are no mystery, just a few tricks here and there. Without more detail I cannot estimate time, but the general measure with boat work is take the initial estimate multiply by twenty, divide by 3 and square the result------and take an aspirin. Ask more as needed------gary

HELLO AGAIN,
I'M READING YOUR ADVICE TO OTHER BOAT OWNERS WITH PROBLEMS AND I MUST SAY YOU KNOW YOUR STUUF. EVEN A NOVICE LIKE MYSELF CAN TELL THE REAL MCCOY WHEN HE SEES IT. I'M READING ABOUT RIB REPLACEMENT. WHICH IS BETTER A SOLID RIB OR A LAMINATED ONE? I HAVE LOGS WITH THE NATURAL BEND IN THEM READY TO BE SAWN, SHOULD I DO THIS OR LAMINATE? SINCE THE RIBS TO BE REPLACED ARE IN THE BOW AREA THERE IS NOT A GREAT DEAL OF BEND IN THEM AND THE LOGS ARE BIG ENOUGH TO TRACE THE RIB AND CUT OUT WOTHOUT BENDING IN ANY WAY. WHICH IS BETTER?
THANKS AGAIN FOR THE ADVICE,
CARL PEAR

Carl;
I always prefer the solid to the laminated, especially when you can get natural bends, but sometimes with very severe compound bends in the hull where a great deal of steaming of the solid frame would be required , laminating is easier. Also where the interior of the hull interferes with fitting in a solid frame, laminating is OK. Normally with wooden boat restoration it is best to stick with the method used in building the hull in the first place. Also a solid rib and a laminated frame handle stress differently so it is best to mix the two as little as possible.---------g

HELLO AGAIN,

SORRY TO KEEP COMING BACK LIKE THIS BUT NEW QUESTIONS KEEP POPPING UP. WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON REMOVING PAINT WITH A TORCH? DO YOU USE A SMALL PLUMBERS TORCH OR A ROOFERS TIGER TORCH? WILL THE FLAME HARM COTTON CAULKING IN THE SEAMS?
THANKS AGAIN
CARL PEAR

Carl;
Burning off paint is OK if you are going to repaint, not varnish, because when you burn, the paint melts and seeps deep into the wood grain to be always seen. I don't like a torch, much prefer a heat gun--------g

Gary,
Thanks for the fast response and advice; It is where
planks but up to one another amidships (decayed at the
fastenings I presume)...how many frames fore and aft
of the bad joint would you go with a new plank? (I
don't know yet what the frame spacings are, there is
no decay reported at the stems). Should I drill in
some ceiling vents at the bilges to ventilate?
Thanks Again!
Lee
Enclosed are some photo's

Lee;
I am jealous, what a beautiful boat, thanks for the pics. The plank joints are usually butted between frames with a butt block providing a fastening point. These areas can deteriorate from rot, above the waterline, or electrolysis of the fastenings below the waterline. If the damage is extensive and the repair goes beyond replacing the butt block, you have 2 choices. You replace a large portion of the plank, remember you are going from one butt block to two and they must be several frames apart (5-7) and no 2 butts should be within the same frame bay as another, so spacing can be difficult. Or , because we have such good epoxy glues, you can eliminate the butt altogether and put in a dutchman( see attach.), a short plank piece with scarfs of several inches at either end which creates a large gluing surface, just epoxy glue the ends. You can put in a backing block to screw to or land the scarfs on frames and fasten there, or find another way to put pressure on the joints as they set up. When it comes to ventilation on a wood boat, there is never too much, get circulating air to any suspected dead air spaces. If you told me I forgot, where are you and your great boat located ?-------g

Gary,
Thanks so much. Your advice is something I can visualize and put in motion as soon as I get out
there, and the compliments on RESOLUTION and my luck is excactly how I feel about it...Bought the boat off
the net for a pittance from Ships Company, a historical reinactment group out in the Chesapeake Bay
area. Timing is everything they say and I had a check in the mail within a few days after learning of it. I
have read about the Pinky's in WB and was impressed..I am a firm believer in doublenders. SC bought another
bigger ship and had to get rid of RESOLUTION. My contact at SC was a naval architect and seaman who so
impressed me with his knowledge along with this being an organization, arrested my concerns of buying before seeing.

"Resolution" is a documented Class C Tallship built after the 1800's vintage Pinced Schooner. The
historical version was an armed escort /dispatch vessel to USS Enterprise, as well as the dominant boat
style of the eastern US fishing fleet of the period.

I will be going out there to recon the area in Feb. or March to see my new "command" and to put out some job
feelers etc. Then return here to make prep for a move out east, repair my ship and get into the water ASAP
for my new life as a livabord!

Thanks for your interest, for more info. my boat may still be on their website www.shipscompany.org under
boatnews section.
Thanks Again! Lee

Thanks Gary!..A good diagram, it lends me the
confidence to start cut'en holes to patch up me
boat!!Yes plank skarfs are familiar,..made me a router
jig way back when.
I might ask about brands of glues you recommend for
this dutchman technique later as I get closer to the
job.
This is quite a humanitarian thing you do for us in
sharing your knowledge so freely...if your'e ever out
in the Chesapeake area please look me up for a sail!

My sincere gratitude and best regards to you,
Lee

question: Gary, could you give me some info on woodbleaching, I"m told when
going over wood with fiberglass you should bleach the wood.Can you
use clorox for this? Oris there some special wood bleach product
i should use.Will clorox hurt the wood? Also when deciding on resins
what is the difference between polyester resin and vinylester resin?
which is better ,and why. Thanks for an info you can give Charles

Charles;
When fiberglassing wood you must get out any surface oils that would inhibit the resin from penetrating the surface, except for plywood which has no surface oils. You can accomplish this either with any kind of bleach or preferably acetone.-----use vinegar to get resin off your hands.-------g

Here is some news "hot off the wire" I am still awaiting the
formal written survey, but the surveyor has sent me a few more pictures
that indicate some attention to the cabin roof is required.
In the interior shot you will see two beams which are cracked near the
cabin wall. You will also see some rain water infiltrating at the end of
the beam with the most damage. More troubling, is the adjacent section
of the member supporting the beams and fastened to the cabin wall which
is missing a fair bit of "meat". Is this member properly called a
carling? If it was in a house it would probably be a ledger strip, but I
should become fluent in "Boatalk". For now I will refer to it as a
carling, if I am wrong please be patient with my inexperience and let me
know the proper term.
The shot of the exterior of the roof shows what looks to me to
be a depressed area at the junction of the cabin wall and the finished
roof particularly on the starboard side. The narrow edge of exposed
mahogany (possibly the portion left after the sidewall was rabbited)

actually seems to be slightly above the finished roof surface in several
places. I would guess that the original intent was to have a flush
mating of the two surfaces.
I suspect that at the location of the worst of the beams ponding
has occurred and over time the infiltrating water has caused decay in
the carling and perhaps in the beam ends. I would think that a design
that includes a flush butting of the roof to the cabin wall and the
resultant seam is kind of asking for infiltration. Certainly this
exterior joint could be caulked, the carling bedded in some appropriate
material and the intersecting edges of the carling and interior roof
calked. In fact it is evident that plenty of calking has been used
either as a preventative tool or to attempt to cure an active and
possibly chronic leak.
I would guess that as long as there is any potential for water
to enter, all that interior calking would be like the finger in the
dyke. In fact it could allow any infiltrating water to remain trapped at
the beam ends, behind the carling and cause rot to set in. On the other
hand if the finished surface of the roof overlapped the cabin side, a
more positive drainage pattern would be assured.
For the short term I will want to affect a repair to any broken
or decayed beams, reverse any sagging that has occurred at the
roof/cabin wall junction, repair or replace the carling, and try to
prevent future infiltration of water. I have fooled around with antique
cars, old houses, and vintage furniture enough to know that hidden
surprises often await uncovering while engaging in "small" repairs. In
the long term I might just find myself into some more serious work.
I don't know, at this time if the beams are let into the cabin
walls with a dovetail or are connected by some other method. I can
thing of a few repair options available if the beam ends are solid.
However, I would be hesitant to invest much time or money into a repair
of the beams without knowing for sure that there is no rot present at
their ends. I expect removing the carling will allow a visual inspection
of the beam ends as that member has been notched at all the beams.
I know it is impossible to predict in detail what might lie
beneath what is seen in these pictures, but it could mean a major
rebuild or at least re-sheathing of the cabin roof is in my future.
I would be interested in knowing what you see when you study
these pictures. I would also appreciate knowing how you would approach
things considering both a quick but efficient fix and your design
suggestions for watertight re sheathing job.
Since it will be at least six months before I even see this boat,
perhaps I am getting a little ahead of myself. Of course once it does
arrive I will want to get out on the water ASAP and want to have a
reasonable repair game plan established in advance.
I think this is where you say "welcome to the world of old wooden
boats"! Let me know what you think.
Regards----Bob
.

Seems to me you have the problems pretty well scoped out. Once you remove the carlin, right term, you will know more about how many beam ends are bad.. Short of replacing the whole beam I would have one of two approaches, if the ends are totally shot I would epoxy glue in a 12 to 1 scarf, if the beam is 2 in thick the scarf would taper over 24 inches. If the ends have some integrity I would cut out 1 inch off the bottom of the beam over its whole length and laminate on 2 new half inch pieces using epoxy glue. Once the carlins are pulled you can inspect them but if there are any problems at all I would suggest making new ones.

The edges of the cabin top are the typical leaky construction, causing the beam end rot, and probably have spotted edge rot under the molding. I would take off the molding, and depending on the thickness of the top, cut back that distance from the edge and epoxy glue in a piece of 1/4 round so when you redo the top with fiberglass, canvas or lagging, you bring the material at least an inch over the edge so that the mounding sits below the deck to cabin house seam not right on it. This way you avoid trapped fresh water right at the seam plus you can see if any problems are developing. A little more work but well worth it over time..Hope this helps, ask more as needed--Nice project------gary

question: Hi there, I live down in australia and recently took possetion of an old harbour workboat built in 1950. It is 27 foot long and carvel built currently the engine is removed and i have it moored on the water. Im currently just trying to save her and have fixed up the deck etc to seal her topside and although lacking care over the years and having quite a few broken frames its still floating ok the bilge pump has a little spit every few minutes but its holding it own. My next order of business is the hull and structure and im wondering if there is anything i can do to fix broken frames with the boat floating on its mooring or must it be slipped. I have thought of scarphing the broken ones , several have small sister ribs already. Im confident in steaming new ones but i guess replacement in water is out of the question. Can frames be fixed from the inside of the hull im an experienced commercial diver if something needs to be done on the outside if that helps, i guess!

im just looking at what can be accomplished without slipping the boat as it will save me money when i do slip it. Thanks matey..

You pretty much have to have the boat out of the water to do major
frame repairs. Although you can make patterns for the rib shapes and
actually make up the ribs, either laminating (less likely to break)or
steaming with the boat in the water, but actually installation has to be
done high and dry. You can splice in partial frames using 12 to 1 scarfs but
it maybe easier to sister full frames. Best to sister in between old frames
not right next to a broken frame. Making jigs to either stem bend or
laminate frames is a bit easier than in the boat shaping. You'll notice that
the old steam bent frames break across the grain at the tight bend, this is
because in steaming the elongated wood cells that normally are aligned with
the grain, turn at right angels to the grain when in a sharp bend. This is
why laminating up thin strips may be a better way to go-----gary

Hi Gary, great website. As a first-time boat owner with a mammoth repair and restoration project underway your question and answer archive has been extremely useful.

I recently purchased a 47ft WW2 ex-admiralty pinasse to restore and convert into a houseboat for use on the norfolk broads in the UK and the inland waterways of France. She is carvel constructed with pitch pine planking.

She has approximately 2000kg of very heavily-rusted pig iron ballast distributed throughout the vessel - The ballast is made up of around 100 iron pigs, each weighing approx 20kg and has around 3mm to 8mm of flaking rust.

I need to remove the ballast to access the bilge for inspection, de-gunging and painting etc. I have so far removed 30 pigs, de-rusted with an angle grinder and rotary wire brush and applied a couple of coats of red oxide primer in preperation for a topcoat of exterior metal gloss, before replacing them in the hope of preventing new rust reforming. However I've since read that this is pointless as the iron will expand and contract slightly with seasonal temperature fluctuations, cracking the paint and allowing water to oxidise the iron.

How detremental is the rusty ballast to the wooden hull frames and planking?
The planking under the pigs I've removed so far is in good order but I am dreading lifting out the other 70 or so..
What damage, if any, should I look for when removing the remaining ballast?
When I put them back in I'm going to build a lattice cradle so weight is ditributed over the ribs and the pigs are not sitting directly on the planks.Advice on this subject would be greatly appreciated.
I have many images if required..Many thanks for your help

Thanks for the Kudos on the site. The only time I have seen iron rust
effect wood is with deteriorating iron fastening which penetrate the wood
surface and facilitate moisture intrusion into the wood grain which causes
rot. Rust on the surface does no damage other than creating a mess. The iron
directly on the planks does little harm as long as the boat is in the water
but on dry-dock the weight pushing the planks away from the frames is not so
good. Your basket idea will transfer the load onto the frames which will
tend to concentrate the weight over a much smaller area and could produce
damaging new stresses to the hull. I would leave well enough alone and just
clean it up, do your painting of the bilge, and put them back as they were,
and no matter what you do to protect them oxygen will get to the iron and
cause rust. With older wooden hulls that have an established configuration
memory it is not wise to do anything that structurally alters stress loads.
Hope this helps----------------Gary

Hi Gary, we have another question for you. It concerns the angle of chain plate vs shroud.

My chainplate block is attached to the inboard side of the side planking as required by the plans of our Glen-L 15. When my chain plate is attached to the block it will be set at approx. a 30 degree angle (outboard) off of vertical. The angle of the shroud at the mast to the chain plate well be approx. 20 degrees of of vertical. I am using a toggle jaw to connect the shroud to the chain plate. Should I bend the chain plate to reduce the angle to maybe 0 degrees or vertical?

Yes , it should be bent to the angle of the shroud, as I believe the picture shows.
With larger boats, with more masive chain plates, the angle is not so much an issue.--g

Hi Gary,
My name is Michael Barnes, and i obtained your e-mail address from a link on the 'Hunter' boats web site. I need some advice and am not sure if you can help me?
I am have recently purchased my first boat, a Hunter Europa 19' Sailing cruiser. I seem to be having some problems with the rigging, i have managed to get the mast into position and tensioned up most of the standing rigging. I am having a dilema with the baby stays, they just will not tension up, the Stainless rope is still quite slack even though i have applied maximum tension!
Does all of the rigging have to be the same tension?
Also a little question which i have been pondering, what exactly do the spreaders on the mast do???Theses questions may seem silly, but i am only 20 years old and no-one will seem to take me seriously and i am realy struggling so any help and advice would be much apprecaited.
Thanks
Mike

Mike:
Never be embarrassed about asking questions. Not all stays have to be the same tension but the ones opposite the other like forestay and backstay should be similar. The baby stays do not have to be real tight for they will tighten up under sail. The spreaders act to spread the load on the mast under sail to the hull. The best way to tune your mast is to make sure the mast is straight both sitting at dockside and under all points of sail. On a small boat such as yours where the stresses are not huge, like on a racing machine, you have plenty of leeway to experiment------good luck and have fun sailing---ask more questions anytime-------gary

question: Gary: I haven't read your page in sometime, but it was/is packed with
grt info. I have a Garden 34' wood. ketch. I've remasted. 2 problems.
A slack triadic backstay, very (like 2-3" worth). Also, the main's boom: I'm unable to get adequated room for it to clear the bow-side of
the mizzen. A modification I did was to shorten by 1" the dolphin spike (due to crimping). Maybe I have the main's double lowers reversed. Any thoughts? Thanks from a newbie

Hi
Thanks for the kudos on the question pages. Unless you have changed anything drastically, sounds to me like you have a lack of rake problem. Most ketches have a light rake aft to both the main and the mizzen and usually the mizzen is raked a few degrees more than the main. This would account for both the lack of main boom clearance and the slack in the triadic. Hope this helps---g

Chris--------yes, bleach kills off some spores but not others, especially
some of the molds. TSP, trisodiumphosfate is a better choice, available at
paint and hardware stores--------------gary

question: In order to safeguard against rot in the bilge of my 1932 wood sloop what can you advise me to introduce into the bilge to offset fungus? People have told me to use antifreeze, for example. Is this a good idea? Are there better substances? Sam/Portland Or/1932 Phillip Rhodes sloop

Nice boat. Yes antifreeze with glycol will prevent and kill rot but so
will salt water. I always kept salt water in the bilge but if you want a dry
bilge put some antifreeze in a garden sprayer and saturate the area you want
protected. Also try to keep any fresh water out of the bilge, rot fungus
thrives in moist dead air areas. Keep interior well ventilated----g

Thanks for your response. What strength should I make the antifreeze? Can I do this treatment often? Are there undesirable "side effects"? Sorry to be persistent. I am enjoying reading the various comments on your site, and benefiting too. Sam

No problem, ask away. I use it full strength, it will even penetrate thru a painted surface. I don't know of any unintended consequences of using it but you probably would have trouble using fiberglass resin over it, but I've never tried. I would do it every year, especially if you have water sloshing thru the bilges which I can't imagine not happening in an older wood boat. Glad the question forum is useful to you--------gary

and how do you feel about latex enamals? .... is there a paint that will let the wood breath ....i figured paint was to be a sealer

i am working on the hull and want to seal the exterior and maybe leave the interior of the hull bare....i would have liked to paint the bilge ...

My basic rot rule is if it is occurring in non structural cosmetic areas impregnating with penetrating epoxy(getrot) and filling is OK, but in structural areas, such as frames, planks, deck beams, carlins etc. etc. the bad areas must be replaced with new wood and replaced in such a way that structural integrity is maintained ie. if there is a bad spot in a plank, you don't just replace a few feet, you must replace enough to maintain stress integrity which may mean the whole plank. Also when one finds rot, it must be determined where the fresh water is coming from so it can be prevented.

Almost all paints, alkyd, oil and latex, allow the wood to breath, with the possible exception being epoxy paints. High gloss paints are harder and wear better but also show off minor flaws in the finish, you can get a dulling agent which will cut down on the shininess but maintains the hardness. Go ahead and paint the bilge, I suggest using a porch & floor enamel, very tough and available in hardware stores without the "marine" price.------- gary

question: can a sailboat, say a Cheoy Lee, presently being sailed in salt water, be successfully sailed in a fresh water lake and yet avoid dry rot, etc.? and if so, what steps need to be taken?

The source of most wood rot comes from fresh water rain that gets into small
dark places with no air circulation, but any fresh water, including lake
water, can produce the same results given the right environment. Rots
biggest enemy is fresh air circulation, so keep the boat well ventilated and
put some salt in the bilges which will kill any rot spores germinating in
that area. I'm assuming it's a wood boat but if not, the principle applies
to any wood areas on the boat------gary

I have a large area, about 16" around the frame of a window, where I have water damage. I have removed the damaged wood from the area including old filler. The window frame itself is still intact. The rot did go through to the salon for a small part of the area. Do you have a suggestion for speeding up drying of the area, some of the surrounding wood is wet but not rotten, and a good filler? I live in Toronto Ontario and it is cool and damp this time of year. The boat is scheduled for launch April 27.

It is most important that the area be thoroughly dry before you seal
it up, if not you could encourage more rot . Other than using a hair dryer
or heat gun there is little you can do to speed up drying out. You might
want to just duct tape the area until the weather warms up. Bondo now makes
a good marine filler. Glue in new wood where possible.------good luck--gary

question: hi gary, i have recently purchased a retired trawler which has been converted to a cruiser. most of the tibers are in good condition however i could never understand why the design of these boats precludes the maintenance of certain sections of timbers oweing to large fuel tanks and inaccessible areas. i have since discovered that i have some dry rotted timbers in these areas, but short of pulling out major components "like these fuel tanks" im at a loss as to how i can get in their to treat the wood. i have read on the net that "anti freez" or (radiator coolant) is apparently a little known but exeptional treatment for rot which if i could just confirm this would be a soloution for me as i could just spray the stuff at random in these areas with a common garden sprayer. so my question is can you confirm that coolant works? I also considered that if i set up a fan system and ran hose into these and other under floor areas where there is minimal circulation, could that be a solution to ventilating these areas which i have also read is a key factor in stopping these dry rot issues... your help is appreciated.... rick
.

You got it all right. Make sure the antifreeze has glycol, and anyway
you can get air circulation and some salt water sloshing around in those
areas the better off your boat will be.Also, any way you can, make sure
there is no serious structural damage already done from the rot. If you can
reach with a hammer, tap on the wood and hopefully hear a solid sound not a
thunk.----good luck--gary

thanks gary, just wanted to say how comforting it is to know that someone like you will take the time to
educate people as they enter the world of boating with often little knowledge of what there doing, but alas
nothing ventured nothing gained, i say!. where i have the boat moored is with other licensed fishing vessels
and asking these guys questions can often result in some strange looks like "what the hell are you doing
buying a boat that big if you dont kmow anything about it" but i have to say there not all like that, i have
been lucky to have a couple of guys crawl into some the spaces where i have some concerns and they all
they say the same thing......yeah mate you got a few rotten ribs there but shell be right mate, these
trawlers are built tough and shell outlive you dont worry about it too much...problem is i do worry about
it, maybe im just a bit fastidious but i figure why spend money on the top decks/living sections etc if
the bottom is falling away from under me.....you say that having salt water splashing around will help i would have thought that there should be no water in there at all? it can be confusing, some guys say all
wooden boats leak a bit and some that just cause there wood dont mean they should leak, they should be dry in
the bilge? i do have a couple of leaks from the decks when it rains and i am working on stopping that and
then ill get into spraying the antifreeze around and possibly some cpes epoxy when i feel i have it under
control. but i just wanted to confirm that the antifreeze is not just an old wives tales because its
pretty expensive stuff over here..i was talking to an old shipwright the other day in the pub and mentioned
it to him and he gruffly replied "what a load of rubbish" never heard of it, but i suspect thats why he
thinks its rubbish because hes never ventured outside what he was taught 40 years ago.... and probably
doesnt have the internet..lol i guess the other thing is with the ventilation issue,
like fire needs its three elements and once one is removed theres no fire, dry rot also needs its
elements and one of those is oxygen, if i ventilate the areas with hoses pumpming air in from the outside
arent i effectively feeding the rot one its elements? i guess it will be cool air and not humid air which
gives it the warmth it needs right?

You will find with an older wooden boat you must learn to compromise and
having no worries or anxiety is impossible. The advice of your dock-mates is
right on but the guy in the bar is off, glycol in antifreeze is a wood
preserver and rot killer. Salt water kills rot whereas fresh water (rain)
carries the rot spores, some salt water in the bilges kills the spores
brought in by the rain leaking in. The old schooners had canvas bags filled
with salt stuffed under the deck to turn the fresh water rain to salt water,
similarly you can just put a salt block in the bilge. Rot spores thrive in
moist warm areas, fresh air circulation dries out the moisture and prevents
the spores from growing. You will get a lot of advice from a diverse group
of well intentioned people who have strong opinions but little experience.
Trust the ones who make a living keeping these beautiful old woodies
floating and have fun with yours. -----thanks for the kudos-----gary

question: My boyfriend and I have currently purchased a 73 41' CT Ketch. We have termites and much damage to some areas of the house as well as other structural areas, walls beams, etc. I am aware that I will be tearing out and replacing alot with new wood. When though and how do I decide that a good saturation with epoxy and maybe a fiberglass lay up will do the trick. And what do you think about 409 west system instead of caulk to seal the deck, around the gunnel way and house trim?
.

The basic repair rule is that if it's a structural repair, the affected area
is weakened, do it right and replace the damaged area but if the damage is
cosmetic you can get away with more surface repairs that are less intrusive.
Because epoxy is stiff and rather brittle it does not make a good caulking
or bedding material for it will crack and allow water penetration over time.
A more flexible product such as a polysulfide or dolphonite bedding compound
works the best for it stays flexible over time and maintains a water tight
seal even with the movement and stress typical on a sailboat. Good luck with
your new old boat and pay the extra bucks to get an exterminator and make
sure all those wood eating guests are gone----------gary

question: i have a 1989 regal sebring and im only keeping it for maybe another year or 2. the floor is soft in some spots but good in other parts is it poosible to just fiber glass over the soft parts for now please respond asap.

question: Hi Gary, I just purchased a homemade 21-foot Glen-L (plywood/fiberglass) that has I soon found to have dry rot in it of about a square foot near the chine. I've been trying desperately to find a (cheap) solution to this problem; I've heard of chiseling out the rotten wood, placing a filling epoxy down and replacing with another piece of marine-grade plywood. What do you think?

Congratulations on your new old boat. On a plywood hull a patch is pretty easy---cut out the rotted area making sure you are into good wood, take a piece of 5/8 or 3/4 marine or cabinet grade ply and cut a piece that overlaps the edges of your hole a couple of inches. This is your backing block that is screwed and glued to the inboard side of the patch hole. Once that is in place install the plywood patch piece by gluing and screwing it to the backing block. Fill the edge seams with thickened epoxy or Bondo, and fiberglass over fairing it into the hull. Keep some salt in the bilges and keep the boat well ventilated, these will help in keeping out rot spores.--------gary

I read your opinion of repairing wooden boats, and agree about making the proper repair in wooden boats.

My question us about a Glass boat with wooden frames and supports. Specifically the Keel Step. I have a 1980 Celestial Ketch. The main mast is aluminum an is approxdimately 61' tall. The boot around the mast was not properly maintained and water was allowed to infiltrate the oak wooden mast step beam. The beam is 10" wide,7" deep and 6' 6" long.

I now have to deal with soft rotten wood immediatly under the aluminum tabernackle. The rot runs about an 1.5" deep for most of the rot with some places going down to 2.5 inches. Structurally, the beam looks in tact.

I've read about using liquid apoxy to repair these things, but my preference would be to cut out most of the rot, fabricate an insert the width and depth of the rotten wood and mortace it into the existing beam.

Approximately 2.5" deep, 23" long and 10" wide. Most likely using epoxy and screws to bond it in place. Do you agree with this approach?

I am also interested in knowing the stresses on the mast step and the forces that it will have to take so that I can be sure my repair takes into account all of the stresses that will be encountered.

Your fix is the right way to go and will be adequate for the stress involved which is mainly downward with some sideways torque. Smith and company makes an excellent hardwood epoxy glue---http://www.smithandcompany.org/------gary

question: I have a l957 17foot Chris Craft. It is constructed of plywood, one of the less expsensive ones. It has some dryrot in the transom and on the sides near next to the transom. Is it wise to just replace the dryrot or should I replace the whole section of wood the dryrot wood is in?

If the dry rot damage is structural rather than cosmetic, you must replace the wood. If not structural you can treat the area with penetrating epoxy and filler--check out www.rotdoctor.com----------gary

Hi Gary,
I was curious if you could tell me a little about dry rot.
if there is no water, where does it come from?
Are there bacteria in the wood just normally?
thanks,
Kevin
.

Kevin:
There are a variety of types of dry rot but the predominant ones are a fungus. The spores are in the air. For the fungus to grow it needs a consistent moisture of fresh water, salt water destroys it, and a fairly warm temperature. It thrives in areas that becomes moist and have no air circulation to dry the moisture. That is why good air circulation to all parts of the boat is so important. Even in your bulwarks you should have vents for the air to flow. Fiberglass, or any wood covering that doesn't let the wood breathe, is only a rot preventative as long as it adheres, as soon as it lifts from the wood and yet stays intact it creates a perfect home for rot. If you box in a structure without air circulation you can get condensation inside the box which will give the rot spores the environment they need. The principal with wood boats is, Keep freshwater out, Get fresh air in. Dry rot is not dry but the aftermath of its effect on wood is a dry crumbly structure. Although the rot spores are not in the lumber itself, there are other types of fungus that are. This is why it is so important that you use lumber that has been properly dried. air or Kiln, because the drying kills the fungus. If you want more info. go to www.rotdoctor.com. Although he is an epoxy nut, there is good information.------------gary

So,........,, would you suggest that After my bulwarks are complete and fiberglassed, that I punch some breathing holes in them?
If so, would it be top and bottom ,...or ...???
What do you think?
kevin

sKevin:
Yes, to get the air circulating you need air vents at the top and bottom, alternating every 6 feet or so along the inside face of the bulwark. You can get small round metal vented covers that keep the water out but let the air in. You also should have some drain holes at deck level to the outside to clear any fresh water that works it's way into the bulwark box. In actuality, most bulwarks are not completely boxed in but rather have spaces built in for air circulation, and drainage. To do it this way means you would have to give up the glass from bulwark to the deck and make sure the deck around the protruding ribs is well sealed, but in the long run you may have less problems. Getting salt water to the wood guarantees no rot. Any enclosed sealed area on a wooden boat will eventually have rot problems. Water is the universal solvent so often it is best to accept that sooner or later it will get to the wood. Knowing this, we should build structures that guarantee air circulation.--------g

JUST BOUGHT AN OLDER EGG HARBOR (31' SEDAN EARLY 70'S), THE HULL IS FIBERGLASS - AND IN GOOD SHAPE BUT THE CABIN WAS MADE FROM 1" MAGHOGANY AND HAS ALOT OF ROT. I WANT TO LEAVE AS MUCH MATERIAL AS I CAN. MY PLAN IS TO STRIP ALL OF THE OLD PAINT SATURATE THE WOOD WITH ANTIFREEZE TO KILL ANY MOLD AND THEN USE THE WEST SYTEM ON THE WOOD STRUCTURE. MY PROBLEM IS THAT I DO NOT KNOW HOW MUCH WOOD TO REMOVE OR LEAVE. WHAT DO I LOOK FOR WHEN IT COMES TO REMOVING ROTTEN WOOD. THERE SEEMS TO BE ALOT OF ROT IN THE JOINT'S EVEN THOUGH THE REST OF THE WOOD IS SOLID. IF I LEAVE THIS TREAT WITH ANTIFREEZE AND WEST THEN FIR OUT THE INSIDE WITH 1/2" PLYWOOD FOR NAILING ON PANELING. WILL THESE PANELS STILL BE STRONG ENOUGH. YOU CAN REACH ME AT MTIPOLT2@AOL.COM THANKS

Treating rot with penetrating epoxy is ok for cosmetic stuff but anything structural must be replaced with good wood---g

sHi,
Got your name from the Philidelphia Wooden boat factory web site so
I thought I'd ask a question of you. I have some dryrot problems on my 1970
Sea Spirit, Taiwan built, home ported in Redwood City. I'm managing to stay
on top of most of it but it's a constant effort. There is a shipwright
currently working on a Sea Spirit in South Bay Boat Works in Redwood City
making major repairs to dryrotted areas in places where I have had similar
problems. He has said that the interior of wooden boats should be sprayed
with a borate solution which will kill the fungus and prevent dryrot from
occuring. Beyond that he didn't know how to obtain the spray solution but
he was convinced he has heard enough about it that he's sure it does the
job. Do you have any info on this or advice about it? I see you live on
your boat in the bay area, whereabout's?
Appreciate any help you can give me, my marine surveys give the
boat good marks, I want to keep it that way.
Thanks, steve

steve:
I know the maritime museum in SF uses or Borate solution, you could contact them. Also regular antifreeze works well. But it seems you real problem is a design flaw that is not allowing air circulation in those areas that are rotting. I would correct this ASAP. Hope this is helpful. I was living on a 36ft Ketch at Pier 39 but have since moved to a seaside town in Maine, Rockland . The Bay area was just getting to hectic and expensive.-------gary

Gary,
I have a circa1930s, wooden Oconto Cruiser. It is 14 ft. long and
was used as a row boat by the original owner. It was restored to floating
condition and fitted with a 40hp Merc about 15 years ago. The boat was
passed down to me from my father who made the last restoration.
My problems are: dry rot in some areas along the keel, many gashes
along the water line and it is in great need of some new bottom paint.
Are there any products that I can use to get rid of the rot or firm
it up? What is the proper product to fill in the gashes? Is there a
bottom paint that will help stop the rot or slow it down?
Almost forgot...The inside board that runs the length of the boat
(i don't know what it is called) has a lot of rot near the bow. I was
thinking it might be better to replace it. Is there a supplier for parts
like that?
Any type of help or ideas would be great. This boat is my winter
project and is currently on saw horses in the garage. The winters in
Wisconsin are long and boring at times, not to mention really cold so I am
itching to get started.
Thank you very much
Greg Reinke

Greg:
Nice project and kind of a family heirloom. Of course the fix of choice with a wooden boat is to put in new wood where necessary, but for many reasons this is not always possible. Where you have rot there is a product called penetrating epoxy which impregnates the wood with a resin that hardens and also kills the rot spores. There are also epoxy fillers and putties used to fill dings and dents. The long board you speak of is called the keelson and is structurally important to the boat. If the rot is too deep into this you may have to cut out an area and glue in a new piece, this is called a "dutchman". Because of the boats age, I would strip the bottom, only the part that gets submerged, down to bear wood and give it a coat of penetrating epoxy. This will inhibit future rot which no paint can do. To become familiar with these products and ask an expert how to use them go to www.rotdoctor.com. Good luck and I hope your working on the boat inside.-----gary

I have a 1978 Checkmate Enhancer. I was getting it ready to go into my boat
slip yesterday and noticed I have some mushy floor areas by the rear seats.
After ripping up the carpet I was able to rip open a 6" square area by hand.
I'm wondering if there is any way I can fix this cheaply so I can get a few
more years out of this boat. I'd prefer not to replace the entire floor.
Are there any major problems that would arise if I were to put a pressure
treated plywood flooring on top of the existing flooring? If I do this, I
would at the new flooring with fiberglass and whatever else is necessary.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
.

Kieth;
I happened to be online. Yes, you can do that, just remember unless all the rot is removed it will continue to get worse. A quick fix for now is OK but down the line, especially if your going to sell the boat, you will have to bite the bullet and fix it properly. You might delay the rot a bit by soaking it with antifreeze before you cover it up. Antifreeze kills the rot spores. Good luck----Gary

question: Our tahiti ketch was bult in 73 -76. We are now pulling her out and cleaning the old paint off. We want to know what is the best way to preserve the port orford cedar hull planks. Is an epoxy penetrating sealer good for this wood? Do you think the wood needs paint or a smith co. sealer? Does the wood need to breath and only seal one side being the ouuter hull exposed to the water and weather?
Does ecapsilating the wood help preserve or damage?
Looking forward to your response and any helpful information you will provide.
Thanks in advance
Astrida and Jack
Portland, OR

Astrida& Jack;
Nice boat. A boat traditionally built should be maintained with traditional ways. Stay away from the high tech stuff, it has its place in modern building techniques but not in preserving older wooden boats still being used. Some will disagree with this but I haven't seen any 100 year old epoxied wood boats yet and I don't think I ever will. You are right, the wood needs to breath which it can't do when covered with plastic. To me, the best treatment is a good oil based paint. Plus salt water is a natural wood preservative so artificial wood preservatives are not necessary. If you do have suspected rot areas {caused by trapped fresh water] saturate the wood with antifreeze, it is a great and cheap rot killer. Feel free to ask more and enjoy that great boat.------gary

Dear Gary,
I own a 1960 14 foot wooden runabout with a spot a dry rot I would like to fix myself. This boat is not a ribbed boat, but formed with laminated wood covered with lap. It's titled under Wolverine, but I'm told it's also called a Wagemaker, built around the Grand Rapids, Michigan area.
The dry rot spot is about 10" x 18".
I don't object to using an epoxy because the previous owner has glassed part of the bottom already.
Is this the way I should go, or do you have any other information on how to repair it with wood?
This is my first experience working on a wooden boat.
Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Gary Marzean

Gary;
Normally the rule in repairing wooden boat dry rot is ; If it is in a structural member replace the wood if it is in a nonstructural area epoxy is OK. Of course it also depends on how severe the dry rot is, if you can pull it out with your fingers the wood is too far gone for an epoxy quick fix but if the rot process hasn't progressed too far epoxy will be OK. I can't tell you more without more details. For further information on the epoxy fix for rot go to----www.smithandcompany.org--- and-----www.rotdoctor.com-----------good luck----gary

question: Hi, I was reading your comments in FAQ and thought you may be able to help me. I recently bought a little Hartley kit made ply sailboat.
Lovely little thing that soemone has lovingly put hours into making and I would like to look after it.
I am storing it in the garage as I am told that dry rot is a killer on boats stored outside. I will be using it mainly in seawater but was wondering what I should do after using it when I come home. Should I hose it down with freshwater or just leave it ??

Obviously if I hose it down I will be putting it away damp (I can towel it down as much as possible but nooks and crannies will still be damp/wet at least over night). I beleive dry rot doesn't like seawater so should I just wipe it down at the boatramp or ???
Would appreciate any advice. I live in Brisbane qld so the weather is nice and warm here which I beleive also doesn't help.Am I worrying too much ?? Is it only a prob in long term exposure to water.
Regards Craig
.

Craig;
Sounds like a nice little boat and it has a caring new owner. First, rot fungus only lives in freshwater, saltwater kills it. That is why the old schooners would keep canvas bags full of salt up under the deck so when the deck leaked with rain water it would become salt water. Good idea to keep a small block of salt in the bilge as well. Fresh water trapped in areas where there is no air circulation is the perfect rot environment. Next to salt, air circulation is the next best rot preventative. Never store a wood boat with a tight cover. Also with a plywood boat, rot normally occurs in the solid wood supporting timber for the plywood with its thin layers and glue is not the preferred victim for the rot spores. With plywood you have to make sure all the edges are well sealed for this is where moisture can enter and cause delamination of the ply
layers. If you should come across any areas where rot has begun, antifreeze is an excellent rot killer and wood preservative---------------Enjoy your boat--------ask questions anytime------ Check out the web page dialogues with an Aussie in the question section of the mast mate site. Warwick is in Brisbane as well---------gary
.

question: I have dry rot around the holes through the transom. I have drilled to check that it has not spread. What I want to do is stabise what is there (if indeed it is dry rot) and then epoxy the areas. I am concerned that some proprietory products may not be compatible with the epoxy. What can you suggest to put in the holes before I epoxy those sites.
John Woudwyk

John:
If metal went through the holes and your boat is in a salt water environment, what you have maybe wood deterioration from electrolysis, but if it is in an area where fresh water could seep in, then it is probably dry rot. Both are treated pretty much the same but with electrolysis damage you don't have to worry about the rot spreading. For either ,Penetrating epoxy "getrot" works well if you saturate the area before epxying also, if it is rot, glycerine based antifreeze works well to kill the rot. Check with www.rotdoctor.com. good luck-----gary
.

Hi;
Actually air circulation has a deleterious effect on the environment that is conducive for bacterial and fungal growth. These organism like a damp consistent moderate temperature environment, air circulation discourages such conditions. This is why air circulation is so important on a boat, especially a wooden boat------gary

Gary,thankyou for answering. The area in question is covered with a vinyl mat, the rotting is not in an area where you walk but if if gets any bigger it will be. The deck is made of plywood. I would have to remove the bench seat to see what it is mounted on and how big and how thick the plywood is.the section of rot is about 6" wide and 12" long.When you press on it its soft to the touch. It's not covered over with fiberglass. Thanks for your help.
Sincerely Joe

Joe:
That vinyl matte is part of the problem, it traps moisture and doesn't allow air in, so it creates a perfect environment for rot. You can't really use gitrot, an epoxy product for hardening rotten wood, because it won't effectively saturate plywood. So really the only option is to replace the rotted area. If there are support members near by you can just cut back to them and replace the ply. If there is nothing near to attach a new piece to and if you can get underneath put in a backing piece of ply and then fill in the cut out with ply as well. The best way to prevent rot is good air circulation. Good luck----gary

question: I have a 40 ft dickerson cutter, stripplanked... I just found rot in the keelson, several areas spaning 2 ft the worst are 6 inches long by 3-4 inches deep and 2inches tall am I screwed or do I have options? help.

The good news is that you are not screwed, the bad news is you have to figure out why the rot occurred and stop the source . The keelson is the inside of the boat part of the keel, a fairly massive timber, so the amount of rot you describe is not a structural problem. You need to chisel out the rotted wood and replace with epoxied in dutchman (fitted pieces of wood).. You should always keep salt water in the bilge, it will kill the rot spores. If there is no indication that fresh water caused the problem check if the rot has occurred around fastening like bolts or drift bolts. If so , this is caused by electrolysis, the same fix for the damage , but a different fix to solve the problem, usually the addition of some strategically placed zincs. Hope this helps, ask more as needed--------gary

question: Hello Gary,
I am a transplanted limey here in Florida rebuilding a rotten plywood trimaran.1, Have you had experience with clear penetrating epoxy as a way of restoring dry rotted wood to strength and 2, Have you heard of antifreeze being used as a killer of mildew? A couple of odd ones I know, (but that's me and the wife for ya!)
Best Regards,
Patrick

Patrick;
Hell of a job in that tropical environment. I suggest you read the sections on Rot and Fiberglass Over Wood in the questions part of my website. But, basically, penetrating epoxy should not be used where structural integrity is an issue, plus the effectiveness of the epoxy depends on its penetration and with plywood the penetration is limited to the first ply-layer. Much better to replace the wood and only use the P epoxy in cosmetic areas. Use TSP, available in hardware stores, to get rit of mold, but it is true that antifreeze is a Rot killer and can be used to saturate suspect rot areas even if they are painted over. Good luck with your project and feel free to ask more as needed-------------gary

Hi,
We are repairing a 42 foot 1968 Wood Trojan.
The previous owner tore open a small hole in the back port corner (2 inches
high 4 inches long). This caused some water damage to the transom among
other places.
There is a section of the transom about 25 inches square that is half rotted
away on the inside. The outside looks fine. Do I need to replace this
rotted wood entirely with new wood by cutting it out and putting in a new
piece or can I repair it by glueing a piece of new wood on the inside to
replace the rotted wood (therefore the old wood plus the new wood would be
the thickness of the transom)?
If you want I can send you some pictures of the repair area.
Please ask if you have questions. I am having fun with the repairs but
describing them can be tricky.
Thanks.---Kevin

Kevin;
Nice boat and the fact you are having fun with the repairs shows you are good steward for a wooden boat. Pictures would help, but normally their is an outer planking and an inner planking of the transom and they should not be glued together, for ease of possible repair but you could cut out the rot and fit in another piece and then put a larger backing piece overlapping the edges. It also depends if the inner wood is solid or plywood. You should also treat the surrounding area with some antifreeze to kill any remaining rot spores-------If the transom is only one plank thick with no inner planking you can fix it cosmetically for now but eventually since it is a structural you will have to replace the plank------gary

morning
thanks for the article on rot - it was a great read
just wondering...I found a 8 inch by 8 inch patch on the bottom of the
internal hull which seems to be a sandpaper like substance - when I pull on the edges of the patch it seems to be firmly in place
also on the boat there are at least 2 patches made out of plywood - these
are screwed into the internal hull and sealed with some kind of sealant -
these also seem to be firmly in place
i have NO idea if these patches are leaking as the boat is drydocked but I do not recall seeing them leak when the boat was in the water and being
surveyed before we bought it
should I take patches like this off and reseal them or leave them as is and
fix them if they ever leak/break?

Kevin;
The latter, don't fix what ain't broke. Maybe down the line you can redo them but for now get the boat floating so you can enjoy it-----------g

question: I own a 35' 1964 Owens which I purchased around four years ago. I had the botom repainted and some rot spots fixed around two years ago but this year I kept smelling a fishy odour and I have just found that there is some white fungus which has caused some rot below the v berth. I suppose I have two questions, one what do i do to kill the rot/fungus, two what can i do to stop this from taking off again. The boat is in a freshwater lake. in your questions and answers sheet you suggested salt in the bilge if so what type of salt? and do you just throw it in? and how much.

Yours depressed, Ive spent so much time, effort and money on this boat to get it running and now I have visions of thousands to get the hull fixed yet again within two years.

Relax, no big bucks or much hassle involved. What I would do is to get your hands on a garden pressure sprayer, any hardware store sells them, and mix up a salt water mixture, like 3 cups of salt per 5 gallons of water, and spray it all around your bilges, get in all the nooks and crannies. The mixture will kill any mold or fungus and keep it from returning. If the wood has been softened where the fungus was, saturate it with some penetrating epoxy. You should repeat this process a couple times of year and most importantly make sure you have good fresh air circulating throughout the boat, this prevents the stagnant moist environment mold and rot need to grow in . If you always have a bit of water in the bilges lay a small salt block in there or occasionally throw in some salt, any salt, table,epson, sea salt, all will do the trick-----enjoy your boat------g

question: Gary im joining two peices of white oak for a rudder out of 2-1/2in stock,what is the best method of bonding together,wood glue,epoxy or 3m 5200 Ross Mn.

That's a pretty hefty rudder. Unfortunately white oak does not take
to glue or epoxy very well, so whatever you use, either is ok including
5200, I would recommend you use bolts as well. Personally, unless it is for
an historical vessel, I use layers of 3/4 in cabinet grade ply sandwiched
and screwed with matt fiberglass saturated with epoxy resin in between each
layer, and if it's an outboard rudder, save the oak for cheek pieces at the
top. The sandwiched ply is relatively light and very strong and if glassed
over is impervious to rot and worms which oak is not. So, that is my
prejudice but you go with what works for you.----gary

Hello Gary
I recently bought a well-used 21-ft Clipper Marine sloop with a transom-mounted wooden rudder/tiller.
The wood is very dense/heavy but I'm not knowledgeable enough to determine the type. Due to age and apparent lack of upkeep, the bottom of the rudder has a few cracks between 3" and 6" in length. The wood has swelled making the bases of the cracks from 1/8" to 1/4" wide. Further up the rudder, there are steel straps that the pintles are fastened to. These straps which wrap around both sides of the rudder are fastened with through bolts. At each hole there are cracks radiating out from under the straps.
Would you be willing to suggest a method of repair. Knowing very little about woodworking, I'm afraid to experiment and then end up having to search for a new rudder!
Thanks for any help you can offer.
Scott Jones

Scott:
Without seeing the rudder it is difficult for me to determine the severity of the problem. Your description of the wood makes it sound like oak or some other type of hardwood which is somewhat unusual for most rudders for these type of boats are either all fiberglass or a combination of fiberglass and wood. I don't think there is much you can do to "repair" your existing rudder. I would tend to make a new one out of two pieces of marine plywood screwed and glued together and then fiberglassed.It's thickness should be the same as the old one so the pintols fit properly.For this application plywood is much stronger then a solid piece of wood. Use the old rudder as a template for the new one. Ask more questions as needed.---------gary

Thank you so much for being online to help.
I purchased a fiberglass sailboat with a mahogony rudder. The bottom
part of the rudder has been in the water for the past 15 years. Needless
to say, it is rotten and needs to be replaced. My question is in
regards to the shape of the rudder. This rudder is flat on one side and
shaped only on one side. I had considered puttting a fiberglass rudder
on the boat, but a friend of mine who works with wood talked me into
building a new rudder out of mahogony. My concern is that he "wing"
shape of the rudder cause a "lifting" pressue as it moves through the
water. Shoud I just duplicate the shape of the rudder, or should I go
ahead and tapper the other side?
The boat is an American Mariner that was built in 1976. I purchased the
boat from the original owner so I know the rudder is original from he
manufacturer.
Again, thank you for any assistance you can give.
Louis Pomaro, Grapevine, TX

Louis:
Usually rudders are beveled on both sides not so much for aerodynamics but in order to have more heft at the rudder shaft. Why your original is shaped only on one side I cannot say but I don't think it is some kind of design innovation or improvement. If the new rudder is made of solid wood it should have some peened bronze rods inserted fore to aft to prevent splitting. Good luck and I hope this is helpful. Feel free to ask more.------gary

question: Hi Gary
After reading,"how to do repaires" I'm sure that I came to the right guy. I bought and old O'Day 25 CB and the rudder has a large bulge on the starboard side. The rudder was out in the weather so I guess rain got into the laminate. I drilled some holes about 3/32" in the side, the drill went down about a 1/4 of and inch and then droped into a cavities. I flip the rudder over and water came out, I let it drain for a day and then left it in the sun for a week,with the Starboard side up, we had a good week of hot dry weather and for some unknow reason the "Bulge" flatten out to normal. Now I don't know what to do, I don't think I can pump in some epoxy, the cavitie is gone. I just don't want this rudder to snap if I left it alone. I was thinking to cut two slots, and put in ReBar rods and fill and glass over it. Hope you can help. thanks Joe

Joe:
Thanks for the compliment but without greater knowledge of how the rudder is constructed and what filler they used, I can't be of much kelp. I do know that many cored fiberglass rudders do get water in them and this by itself causes little problem but over time its presence could badly corrode and weaken any interior metal support. I don't think your reinforcing idea would do much good. I would try to figure out how the water got in there, maybe around the shaft, caulk it up and epoxy over the holes you drilled and see what happens. Also, I am sure other Oday owners have had similar problems so I suggest you go to --www.odayowners.com--- and ask for their advice as well. Good luck-------gary
.
question: Recently I purchased a 40' Maryland deadrise style workboat on the Chesapeake Bay. Built in 1938. Its in good shape and was used everyday as a workboat. Now I want to keep this piece of history and use it as a fishing / cruising boat. Many old timers say I should spray the wood inside the hull with a product like Cuprinol to prevent rot.

The boat has a small cabin that was used for storage and I want to eventually clean and built some bunks inside. Can I apply the Cuprinol and still use the interior safely as sleeping area ?

What are your recommendations for an interior preservative? The planks are cedar and frames are white oak. Interior hull surfaces are unfinished . The outside of the hull is painted wood. I want to keep the boat as original as possible. I love wood !

Mike

Mike;
Sounds like a great boat, send a picture when you have one. Built in 1938 and still doing OK so I wouldn't mess with any preservative, just make sure you maintain the good fresh air circulation it no doubt has had all these years. Rot forms in areas made damp by fresh water { leaks or condensation} without air circulation. Also keep some salt in the bilges and often soak down the boat with salt water which kills fungus spores. If you run into some areas that have some rot, spray down with antifreeze, glycol kills rot and actually will penetrate paint to do so. Enjoy your new old boat-------gary

Thanks !

Your site and letters and advice have been a great inspiration to me . Your right the boat was always open and no cabin door was there. Air could flow everywhere. The boat does leak on the outside chine logs around the engine area. I will have the boat pulled in June. I have read many of your letters about calking.

Im not sure what we will find when we pull it out. Im lucky that the boat yard I am at has a lot of wood boats around. At least some knowledgeable people work there. I do appreciate your opinions. I will keep you up to date on progress.

Mike
.

Mike:
OK, keep me up to date and feel free to ask questions as needed. It is good you have some old timers around, just listen to those who do or did not to those who pontificate without substance of which there will be many------------gary

question: I bought a used MastMate. When i went to use it, I found that my legs are way too short. Can you resew it and add steps at about half the distance between steps?If so, how much will it cost?Thanks!!

Sorry, no way to resew one. We do sell one with 14in between steps but it is quite costly. I find that 90% of the people who have difficulty with the distance between the steps is do to one of two reason, one, they are not keeping their body straight with their hands head high around the mast or their pants are too tight. Give it another try and make sure your butt is not sticking out away from the mast, you can't lift your legs that way. If you still have no luck you could trade it in for some money off on a new short step model. Bear in mind, the short step is $12 a foot.--------gary

I have acquired my first sailboat, an S2 8.5A, and have been pondering
ways to access the masthead for maintenance and repairs (mast height 41"
above WL...haven't measrued using the info on your web site yet).
I am comparing your "Mastmate" and a product called the "Topclimber" by
ATN, Inc., that I saw at Strictly Sail Chicago recently. Have you had any
comparisons between these two, or any thoughts? Also, at a vertically
challenged 4'10", I'm concerned about the rung spacing for the Mastmate. Did
I read correctly that there is a custom version with closer spacing, and if
so, could you give me and idea of the additional cost? Thanks much for your
time!
Sincerely,
Sheila Marie
.

Shelia;
I appreciate your interest in the Mast Mate. I have not tried the system you speak of nor are there comparisons, however I am familiar with it. Using the mast mate you are aligned with and attached to the mast and holding onto it as you climb, with the topclimber you are basically free airing on a single line. I think for the average person the Mast Mate would be easier and safer, but for the experienced climber in good physical condition the topclimber may be just fine. Personally, I get exhausted just looking at it. Yes, we do have a short step, 14 inch step separation, at $12 a foot, but even though you have a short inseam you might find the regular model doable. Several customers of your stature do just fine. What I suggest, since the product is fully guaranteed, buy the regular model and if it doesn't workout trade it in toward the short step model. I hope this is helpful but if you wish to discuss it further give me a call at 800-548-0436.-----------Gary

Gary;Your info is most helpful. Having tried the Top-Climber at Strictly Sail
Chicago for an 8 foot "climb", I'm inclined to agree with your assessment!
It would seem easier to climb with my arms firmly around my mast, and for me
would likely feel more secure. I appreciate the advice on sizes, and if I
decide to order, will start sith the regular version as suggested.
Again, thanks much for the info and quick response.
Sincerely,
Sheila Marie

Gary, I hope you can help me out in constructing a steam box. I must
repair some frames and need some plans, or a leg up upon this task. Am
not willing to laminate with west system or even a web site to help me
out ....thank you for your help..........garth

Garth;
The simplest steam box is to use a piece of stove pipe, the kind used for wood stoves with lengths that fit together. Put a cap or wood plug in one end, put a hose from you steam source, a metal type gas can works well, into the other. Put your material in and stuff rags into the hose end and walla, you have a steam box. You can get a propane burner for a heat source. The most primitive way I have done it is to use a 55gallon oil drum, fill it with water, light a fire under it and boil the wood. Works OK but turns the oak very black. Good luck----------gary

I am installing a replacement deck hand rail. It is a 12 feet long flat section mounted on supports at approximately 15" on center. The teak is 3/4" tall and 1 1/4" wide with edges eased to 1/4" radius. The curve has a spring of better than a foot.
Will teak take to steaming? or should it just be 'cold' formed and clamped? I have tried cold bending it an noticed considerable resistance to taking the curve particularly since it is bending across the wide dimension.
The original had one long and one short screw at each support. There is no ability to through bolt it.
This is on a 'classic' Wauquiez Hood 38 - plastic boat..

Chris:
Usually, if one had the option, when choosing the teak for the rail you would select a wide board that had a natural curve with complimentary grain, but in today's world this is usually not an option. Since your bend is in the wide part and your fastening points are far apart, I would set up some kind of jig where you could prebend it to the approximate shape. Securing one end and using a heat gun to heat up the wood as you bend it to shape should work, if that didn't work you could steam the piece but be careful the outside edge does not split, clamping a piece of flat steel to the edge would deter this. Since teak has so much natural oil, the heat gun method should work. Last option would be to laminate up 2 thinner pieces. Hope this helps, patience and persistence wins out------gary

question: Hi Gary Im preparing to lay up the garboard strake on a clinker style boat,the strake is fitted and clamped in place but there is considerable tension.Will the board retain this memory after being fastened when boat is finished and create stress and cracks;or is not steaming an air dried strake common practise if it can be twisted into place without it. Ross Mn.

Usually one only steams green lumber which has a fairly high water content,
dried lumber tends to get more brittle from steaming. With a cold bend you
get greater strength for you are not changing the cell configuration which
happens with steaming. If you can fit the garboard cold and it doesn't split
or check in the first 24hrs, your OK. The grain pattern of the wood will
determine its ability to take a particular shape and maintain it with
integrity.------gary

Dear Sir, I have a 30' yacht built in 1962, construction is oregon hull, splined above the waterline and caulked below. My challenge is this, the topsides continually show some cracks along the splined seams, how do I prevent this. Can I replace a portion of the spline? or should I just remove it with a router and fill with epoxy? Currently I have just been filling the cracks with Stopping but that lasts only for a few months, the boat is kept in Queensland Australia and the summer is sub tropical. Any ideas you may have would be much appreciated. Just so you know I bought her in 1974 sold her in 1976 and bought her back in 1978. I'm passionate about her.

The Fords;
It sounds as if the glue is letting go on your splines, plus the contraction and expansion of your planks is adding to the problem. Splined topsides do best in colder climates where wood contraction and expansion is minimal, but even these begin to crack as the boat ages. You have 3 choices. Router out the old splines and epoxy in new ones made from a soft wood, like pine, so they will stay swollen.Two, take out the splines and bevel the seam to accept regular cotton caulking. Three, live with it and keep filling the cracks as they occur with a flexible caulking. Do not take out the splines and replace with epoxy, this would make the situation much worse. Also much of your problem could be eliminated if you went sailing more and kept the topsides wet. I hope this helps-------------------gary

question: I am the original owner of a 1947 Gar Wood 16' runabout boat. I have a small leak by the propeller shaft. Maybe the packing needs replacing. Is that a big job.

Nice boat. There are only two places for leaks where the shaft enters the
boat, the shaft log or the stuffing box. If it is the stuffing box you
should be able to see it dripping, it should drip about one drop every few
seconds when the shaft is turning for this lubricates the shaft but if it
leaks while the shaft is still then the stuffing box has to be tightened or
it needs new stuffing (see
http://mastmate.com/P-Z.html#Anchor-STUFFIN-54676 ) . The shaft log is the
metal piece the stuffing box is attached to, sometimes with a section of
rubber hose in between the two. As part of the shaft log there is a flat
metal plate that is screwed or through bolter to the keelson. When installed
this plate is bedded against the hull with a caulking of some kind and over
many years this caulk can harden and crack and allow leakage into the boat.
If this is the case the fix requires the pulling of the shaft so the shaft
log can be removed and reinstalled with new bedding caulk, once this is done
and since the new positioning of the shaft log may be slightly different
then what it was, you must check the engine alignment to the shaft.
Hopefully it is the stuffing box which can be fixed fairly easy but if it is
the shaft log you may want to get a professional to do the job. Best of luck
and ask more if needed---gary

Thank you so much for your help. I am a 76 year old woman that got the boat
when I was 15 years old. When my 2 older brothers came home from WWII, my
Dad bought them each a car, and I was too young to drive. He let me choose
between waiting until I was 16, and getting a car, or getting a boat now,
and I said "boat now". She still takes me water skiing on Huntington Lake
in California in the summer. It sounds like the stuffing box needs to be
replaced. When I bailed out all of the water and sponged it almost dry, I
could see water coming in very slowly from under the shaft. The bilge pump
takes care of it, but after 5 or so days without a run on the lake, she
won't start, bilge pump still works. Someone has to get the extra charged
battery we keep under the cabin and put it in, recharge the dead battery and
she starts right up. Too heavy for me to do. She is a beautiful boat, 68
years old now and our children and grandchildren all love to take her out.
I'll get someone to fix her over the winter. We are at 7,000 feet and
snowed in over the winter, she goes home to Fresno, CA for a well deserved
rest. Thank you again Jodell Ryan, I'll send a photo of her.

Thank you gary, about the caulking you have definatly put my mind a little more at ease. Also I don't mean to be a pest, but you are one of the more knowlegable sources around, I need to restuff my prop, i think? It has a little play when I jiggle it from the outside. Bearing, or stuffing, do I actually need to remove the prop shaft,? ( I was leaking a little the weeks before I hauled out)
Thanks again
Joe

Joe:
No bother, I like the questions. No, you do not have to pull the shaft and yes it is a good idea to change the stuffing while you are hauled out. I could run you through the procedure but a while ago I copied a set of instructions which is more than adequate. In this particular case the boat was in the water but all will apply to you other than the water rushing in. If you have questions after reading it, please ask-------g

"A conventional stuffing box acts exactly like the faucet valve on your sink. It has to turn in an environment where water under pressure wants to leak along the shaft. The packing nut on both a stuffing box and a valve stem cranks down on a base, squishing the packing material inside against the shaft. When either begin to drip excessively, you tighten down some more. Eventually, you need to change the packing because it's all "squished" tight.
Stuffing box packing is pretty robust stuff, made of waxed teflon or flax, generally woven in a square section. You buy it at marine stores in packages sufficient to seal one stuffing box.
When you arrive at the point where tightening no longer works to stop the drip, it's time to change the packing. It's not rocket science, it doesn't cost much, and you can do the job without hauling the boat. You will need a minimum of tools: good lighting. a pair of large wrenches, some needle-nose pliers (preferably right-angle) a piece of stiff wire, a razor knife, and a measuring device (tape, ruler, or calipers). You will be working on your knees, possibly in an uncomfortable position, so make the necessary accommodations.
Expose the stuffing box, and get your tools arranged nearby. The packing nut is directly held tight by a locking nut, located aft of the packing nut. If the stuffing box is dirty, it may appear to be one big nut. Place a large wrench on each, and loosen the lock nut from the packing nut, then back the lock nut off as far as you can (thereby cleaning the threads on the base). Next, back the packing nut towards the engine, away from the locking nut. WHOA!!! Look at all that water rushing into the bilge! Don't worry, you have a bilge pump, and it takes a lot of water to sink the boat. Slide the packing nut back along the prop shaft so that you can look at its interior. You will see a space between the shaft and the threaded portion of the packing nut. Measure this, if you can. If you can't estimate it. Then tighten the packing nut back on the base until the flood tapers down to a less terrifying stream. Go to the store and purchase a package of packing of the size you measured (or buy the most reasonable sizes according to your estimate). You can even do this ahead of time by telling the salesperson your prop shaft diameter and (if you know it) stuffing box manufacturer.
You're back now, on your knees, admiring the stream of water entering the boat. Wrap the length of packing material around the propshaft. You will probably have at least three full wraps, plus some extra. Keeping the wrap as tight as possible, run the razor knife along the length of the shaft, cutting all the strands. Remove the pieces, keeping the three best ones nearby. Once more, remove the packing nut, admire the pressure of the cold seawater flowing in, and begin to remove the old packing from the inside of the packing nut.
This is the most difficult part now, but it gets much easier in a couple minutes. Using wire, needle-nose pliers, or, if you have access to one, a cork-screw looking tool mounted on a spring with a tee-handle, remove the pieces of old, squished packing. Get it all out, then scrape around inside the packing nut to confirm everything is clean inside. Place the three new rings of packing around the shaft between the base and the packing nut. Gently ease each ring into the packing nut space between the shaft and the thread. Be sure that the cut section of the packing material is staggered with respect to its adjoining piece (much like piston rings in an engine. When it's all inside the packing nut, gently slide the packing nut onto the threads of the base and begin to screw down until the leak stops.
Stuffing boxes are dynamic, meaning that they require regular adjustment. This means that the thing is going to start leaking as soon as the shaft begins to turn. It's supposed to, thereby keeping the shaft lubricated with seawater and cool when turning. So, the dynamic is this: Stop tightening JUST as the drip stops. Don't crank down as hard as you can. Fire up the engine, make sure the spring lines to the dock are secured, and put the boat in forward gear, slowly. Water will begin to drip through the packing nut. Gently tighten the packing nut until the drip rate is about one drip per second. Increase the RPM t cruising speed, and if necessary, tighten again to the one-drip rate. Now, shut the engine down and watch the shaft. If you have adjusted it sufficiently, the friction of the shaft against the packing material will now be cooled by the leaking seawater to the point where the wax congeals, STOPPING THE DRIPS! It's a dynamic because you sometimes need to play with the tightening a few times to get this point. Voila! The shaft drips underway and seals when it stops..... until, one day, you notice that the drips don't stop at the end of use. That just means that you need to tighten down the packing nut once again, gently, as before. Oh, lest you forget, after you get the adjustment correct, then tighten the lock nut against the packing nut to keep that level of tension.
Stuffing boxes are simple to use and to maintain. Lots of folks get intimidated by them and switch to more expensive packing-free stuffing boxes. Or, sometimes, naughty builders install them in places that normal humans can't work on them. There is a special place in Hell for these builders. Then you might consider the other form of stuffing box.
Keep a spare length of packing in the tool box for an eventual change, but it shouldn't be necessary for several years"

My 27' 1967 Hodgdon Buggy Top Downeast Design with Volvo 151 AQ has been pulled for the season in Newcastle, Maine and I do believe I have found the source for the leak that has driven the bilge to come on every ten minutes like clockwork (maybe this is why water clocks were so accurate?). The four bolts holding the shaft and cutlass bearing in position all rotate freely and 1" of play is available side to side up and down. The bolts have to come out and new ones installed right? What would these bolts be bedded in at their terminus in the deadwood? What will I see when I pull the four (1 over 1 on each side of the after keel) 1' bungs at points where I believe the after keel bolts end? This is the time to make a repair of value so what else should I consider (she already wears spurs)? Should I send the prop off for reconditioning (its seems fine but not smooth)? Replies welcome to gjwalsh@aol.com Thanks, Graham

Graham:
Nice boat. First you must understand how the shaft parts fit together. On the outside you have the cutlass bearing and housing bolted to the deadwood with lag bolts. Then you have the shaft log, the hollow area in the deadwood which the shaft goes through. Usually this log is lined with a bronze pipe that screws into the cutlass bearing housing and on the inside to a metal plate attached to a piece of rubber hose with a stuffing box on the end that keeps the water from coming in around the shaft. It is a closed system, keeping the water from coming in the boat. The stuffing box is a packing gland that surrounds the shaft compacting the packing around the shaft. This gland can be tightened to control any leakage, but since the water lubricates the shaft when it is turning, you should have a drop every few seconds coming through the gland into the boat when underway. Now if you have a leak, the water is either coming through a loose packing gland, which can simply be tightened or the packing changed if necessary, or it is coming in around or through the pipe in the shaft log. Since your cutlass bearing flange is loose the water is probably coming in around it and around the outside of the pipe working its way into the boat. First remove the prop, then remove the four lag bolts, unscrew the flange from the pipe, sometimes there is a lead pipe that is not screwed to the flange so you won't have to unscrew it. Take the flange to a machine shop or boat yard and have the cutlass bearing replaced. Reattach the flange, bedding it in bedding compound [Interlux or roofing patch tar works well}, with new lag bolts (usually bronze}. Make sure the shaft is centered and turns evenly. I hope this helps more than it confuses. Feel free to ask more. Good luck-------gary

.
Gary,
Thanks note way back when on the cuttlas bearing. Now it is time to begin and I need a bit more advice.
What tools/procedures to remove the (?) cap bolt on the end of the shaft? It looks like this was/is where the cotter pin was but it is no longer there. Just a deep slotted groove, very mildly corroded (?). I take it this should screw into and out of the end of the shaft and then one can remove the two shaft / prop nuts not sure of the size. Will measure the nuts and use open ended wrenches big enough to not marr the nuts.
Also have to remove the SPURS andthe slotted prop key to be able to pull the prop. More than likely, ya think, I will need a prop puller tool?
Once all of this is free the next step is to facilitae shaft log and bearing removal.
Going to have to address the 4 after keel (lag) bolts, they are loose in a side to side fashion. Tips here?
I considered having Riverside do the work but I need to be brave and learn. Also there is the cost factor of labor. I will have the work inspected and a new bilge pump in case.
As you canGraham

Graham
Nice to hear from you again. Nice PICS and write-up on your boat. If there is a cap nut screwed onto the end of the shaft it might be what is left from a shaft zinc. It should come off easily as should the 2 shaft nuts after you remove the cotter pin. You will need 2 wrenches, one to hold the lock nut and one to turn the other. Pulling the prop will probably need a prop puller although you could try applying heat and tapping on it. The bearing itself is attached with the four lag bolts you speak of. Remove them and if the bearing doesn't pry right off it may be screwed onto a shaft log pipe. If so unscrew it. Give it to the yard to press in a new bearing. If you haven't had any leaks from the shaft log itself, leave well enough alone. Since The lag screws were not seating properly, you should epoxy in some dowel plugs and redrill the holes. Do not redrill until you have the new bearing in place and properly aligned. After you finish this process you may have to realign the engine to the shaft. Below I have described the removal of the shaft engine flange in case you have to remove the shaft. Keep asking questions as needed and my hat is off to you for doing it yourself-------gary
.
On the inside, unscrew the tightening nut on your stuffing box. Now, for the knuckle breaker, separating the shaft from the flange that bolts to the engine. Invariably this is a pain in the butt. Undo the locking screw on the flange. Undo the flange nuts attaching the shaft flange to the transmission. Now back the shaft out enough to insert a socket, with a diameter slightly less than the shaft, in between the shaft flange and the transmission. Make sure the socket is aligned with the shaft and is free of the flange. Now if you tap on the flange the hope is it will break free and come forward over the socket. Usually this doesn't happen. So, you get a couple of continuous thread bolts that will fit the flange holes and that are long enough to span the length of the socket and flange, probably three inches or so. Install 2 bolts on either side of the flange. In affect you have made a bearing puller. Now tighten them keeping the socket aligned with the center of the shaft and occasionally tapping the flange and spraying on WD-40. Add heat if necessary.
Gary,
.
Thank you for your patience.
It is now on to steps 3-? Need more advice. I was able to get both prop nuts off. 1 1/4" was the size. Tapping alone did not get the prop to move. I had no heat and no prop puller. I will see about a rental of a three jaw puller from Handy Man Rental and will be prepared with heat. I will be very careful with heat. Wooden boat, gas tank above the prop and I do not want to change the properties of the metal of the prop.
I looked at the stern bearing 4 lag bolts and none of the nuts look / act like they will come off. Although I was not ready to remove the bearing because the prop is still on I tried each of the four nuts and they loosened / spun off a bit but soon enough the lag bolts them self were spinning in place.
What are the other ends of the lag bolts affixed to? Are the four painted-over epoxy looking bungs, two on either side of the keel forward of the where the bearing plate / housing and the keel meet, access points to where the keel bolts pass through some vertical member or aspect of the keel (is this the keelson?)?
I assume because the bolts themselves are spinning freely what they are affixed to on their forward end is stripped or (eek) rotted or aged past is holding ability. Or are the bolts not affixed to anything but in essence threaded on the aft end for the nuts but wood screw in fashion on the forward end to be driven into / bite into the wood of the inner keel? Or are the bolts themselves just laid in a receiving hole and bedded with some sort of compound? Would the wood dowel plugs you speak of be as log as the receiving holes in the keel? Again, what keeps the forward en well enough to be understood.
When I get a puller and successfully remove the prop I will have it reconditioned. Or not?
The end of the shaft has a pertruding aspect that is slotted and appears to have been the cotter pin hole. It does not appear to be screwed into the shaft as a cap, but rather an integral part of the shaft. Could this be true? Minor corrosion has reduced it to a slot. How the hell would one ever rebuild or replace if it does not screw out of the end of the shaft? Pull the shaft and bore it out to receive a cap with a cotter pin receiver?
On my last boat (see attached..I am serious..I owned this 65' 49 ton with my brother 95-98) it was a 3" with 4 1/2 threads per inch acme threaded. I learned all this because zincs were eaten away during the summer we had SHELL-FISH in Damariscotta and on the end of the season trip to Brooklyn NY the shaft snapped at the drilled cotter pin and the prop unscrewed off the shaft with the prop nuts bunging up he threads in the process.
We were in the Annisquam Canal waiting for the 128 bridge to open to pass though to Glouscter). Later, after we drifted away from the bridge (thank God!) back toward the Cape Ann gas dock but on the north side of the canal and were rescued to the gas dock. When and immediately after it happened we had no idea we had lost our 36x24 wheel and nuts! At the time I only knew we lost propulsion and steerage. Later, after we were safe on the Cape Ann gas dock a diver told us the sad news we had lost these items.
Long story short we employed another diver who took two days to recover the wheel from the canal even though we carried a spare. The nuts were not recovered, but we found two to buy. The diver attempted to affix the nuts to the shaft with the boat in the water but the threads were so badly damaged that we had to find a thread cutter to attempt to re cut the threads in the water! Well needles to say one can not just produce a cutter capable of working on a 3" with 4 1/2 threads per inch acme threaded! Even in Gloucester.
It was decided that SHELL-FISH was to be towed through the canal bridge to Rose's Marine where we were hauled and spent a week on jack stands over Halloween weekend! Rose's showed us how the 45' shaft was muff coupled behind a panel on the false keel. They were able to pull the aft 9' section of the shaft to machine the threads. We also re packed the stuffing box and reseated the rudder post while we were out of the water.
SHELL-FISH went back together with a recut shaft and two new (used) nuts. One of the nuts, the aft locking nut, was drilled out on each of its six faces and hex nut set screws were inserted for an extra bite on the shaft. Set screws were then set on top of the first set of set screws and were finished with locktite! Because the shaft had broken at the cotter pin it was now too short to have a cotter pin hole in the shaft so the end of the shaft was tapped out to accept a stainless cap screw assembly.
Made the rest of the trip fine. But sold that boat.
Back to CHAZ 1. I learned from SHELL-FISH but my CHAZ1 is different. What are your thoughts on how the cutlass bearing keel bolts are affixed / seated? Do you think I should just do as much careful disassembly as possible to save the yard labor rate and have Paul Bryant take over and reassemble now you know the cutlass bearing keel bolts are spinning freely?
Graham
.

Graham:
I see you are progressing, two steps forward one step back. Localize the heat
to the hub of the prop, the less you heat the shaft the better. If the prop doesn't have a lot of pink color and hasn't been damaged it doesn't have to go to the shop. The lag bolts, actually they are like studs one end of which is tapered and threaded like a lag and the other is straight and threaded to accept a nut, are usually just screwed into the wood. Over time and usually from electrolysis the wood around the threads deteriorates and the lag will just spin in place. Try a pry bar under the housing to see if it will come aft but be gentle it could be threaded onto the shaft log. Also try a pair of vice grips on one of the nuts and pull aft as you try to unthread the nut. Unless the structure is very different from what I have seen, there is no way these are bolts for there is no where to put nuts on the inside end. The keelson is the part of the keel that runs the length of the boat on the inside.
The situation you describe at the end of the shaft I have not seen, so I can't be of any help. As far as letting the yard take over, that depends on your level of frustration and level of cash.---------------gary
.

question: I am repairing a shaft log leak in a 38' Biloxi Lugger. The log is not lined with a tube but is simply bored wood with bronze fittings at each end for the cutlass bearing and stuffing box. I think a fiberglass tube is in order but need to over-bore the log from 21/2" to approximately 3" and install said tube. What tools are available for this task? Is there a better way?

It is a real drag to rebore that hole, plugging it and drilling. If you make up your own FG tube, using a pipe or pvc with releasing agent as the mold for the right diameter, making the tube on the thin side and once installed beefing up the ends where you would flange it to the hull with additional glass and beef up the inboard end for the stuffing box tube. There is no stress on the tube itself so there is no need for overdoing the thickness. If you don't have the clearance for even a thin tube , sounds like you know what you have to do and I know of no easy way or magic tricks to make it any easier. So I wish you luck and here's a site that shows it being done on a glass boat----http://www.bertram31.com/proj/tips/shaft_logs.htm

I have a bent bronze propeller strut on an old sailboat do you know of any tips
on bending it back. The dimensions of the strut are such:
height == 8 inches
fore and aft == 3.5 inches
width == 3/4 inches
it is firmly attached to the hull, the bend is in the shape of a banana out 1 inch to one side.
I was wondering if a could bend it back without weaken the metal to much.
Thanks

Hi:
Yes, without the right equipment there is a good chance you would significantly weaken it by bending it, plus it is doubtful that you could get it back where it was such that you could get good shaft alignment with the engine. This means you would have to pull the strut anyway in order to align it and rebolt it in a bed of thickened epoxy to hold the new position. Thus, I would take it off and bring it to a machine shop where they can bend it properly. Best of luck---gary.Thank you for your timely advice it prevented me from making a large f-up.
Howdy

Howdy:
That's good to hear. Good luck with your project and feel free to ask more questions as they arise-------gary

Gary,

I saw your address was Rockland. Am thinking of moving to Maine. The people are neat
up there aren't they. My girlfriend said Maine is beautiful. Maryland keeps getting more and more crowded. We live in Baltimore. Our boat is a Carter 3/4 Ton 33 ft. built by Scheel Yachts in Rockport, Me. She is a Dick Carter design we have owned her (family boat) for 20 years she was built in Rockport, Me. in Sept. 1974. Have always had a blister problem now, however, it looks like I have to do some work on the hull. I let it go to long. It looks as if the water has only penetrated the funny looking first layer. I believe this is called fiberglass mat it is next to the gelcoat. Any ideas on fixing this problem and if you think she has been damaged much. This is the firstwinter she has spent out of the water. What is the average slip rental for 33ft. sailboat in a fun area in Maine. Am preparing her as an escape craft if need be.
Hope am not asking to many questions but do you if Scheel Yachts is still in business?
Thanks again
Howdy

Howdy:
Sorry, no Sheedy Boast builder still in existence. I am surprised you have a blister problems, most FG boats built previous to 1976 were pretty blister free. Usually the fix involves stripping off all the gelcoat, either by grinding or renting a special electric plane and then letting the boat sit and dry out which can take a very long time in this climate, and then redoing the hull with several coats of epoxy. Larger problems can develop if the water has penetrated in between the layers of glass and caused them to separate. Then you must actually strip off those layers and reapply new ones. You can test for this problem by taking the handle end of a screw driver and tapping on the hull. First pick an area of the hull you know is sound, like the topsides and hear the sound that is made when you tap it, should be a sharp ping. Then do the same on the suspicious areas. If you don't hear the solid ping but rather a dull thud, you probably have glass separation which severely deters from the strength of the hull. If your damage is just limited to blisters you can probably wait and do the repair when there is sufficient time to let the boat dry out, but if there is evidence of glass separation, immediate surgery is called for.
Yes, Maine is a great place. Down to earth people, beauty everywhere and great sailing. Most boats here are on moorings not docked. You can rent moorings, price depends on location, in this area around $500 for the season or you can set your own. Here in Rockland it's not very crowded. Good luck with the boat.---gary
.

Gary,

I take it from the nick name that sheedy boast was not that great of a builder.I
always thought Maine had a good reputation for boat builders.
Now worried. I would say that the blisters cover 15 to 20% of hull surface.
First layer about 1/8 of inch below gelcoat is bad in those areas. How compromised is the hull in your opinion. What exactly happens do the boatsbreak open? Do you just start sinking real fast or is it a slow sink with time tosail to the beach. I don't know I have not seen a fg boat fall apart. She has been raced pretty hard for 25 years.
.

Howdy:
Without seeing the boat myself I can't say how compromised the hull is. I think it is time to bring in a local pro to survey the hull and give you the bottom line. I am mostly a wooden boat man but I would guess as the water continues to separate the glass layers you would get huge slab blisters and the high stress points like chain plates and the keel would be at risk. Ask around the boat yard and find somebody that works on glass hulls and can tell you if the boat is worth fixing. Sorry for the dark analysis, but better safe than sorry.-------------gary
.

question: We have a 1982 Hunter 33..We want to remove the old carpet that is on the inside hull walls and put in Teak strips. Where can we find the Teak strips and what procedure should we follow to do the job right?
This is our first boat.

Hi:
First strip off the carpet, then find a solvent that will take off the glue that held the carpet on, but doesn't melt the fiberglass. Depending on where you live finding teak stock should not be too difficult, look under exotic or hard woods in your yellow pages or ask a local cabinetmaker. It will be expensive and you will need 2in thick stock that either you or a local woodworker will cut into 3/8in X 2in X as long as possible strips. Before you can install it you will have to put in some vertical ribs to attach it to. These ribs should be 1/2 to 5/8 thick about 2inches wide and as long as needed. They should be spaced about 16 to 16 inches apart and will be glued to the fiberglass hull using epoxy glue. The wood for the ribs should not be teak, but rather oak which you can find already precut at your local lumber yard because they use it for oak flooring. However, if you use this stock you will have to double them up by glueing two together in place so you get enough thickness. If you use thicker oak you may have to kerf, multiple saw cuts on, the backside of the ribs to help them lay true to the curved parts of the hull. Once the ribs are in place you can cut your teak strips to fit and install them with small screws either plugging them, not a good idea with thin stock, or preferably using cup washers which allows for simple removal should that be necessary. Also, whoever cuts the teak strips should round off the outer edges. I am sure this does not answer all your questions, but it is a beginning so feel free to ask more------gary

i have just purchased this 1967 GB and would like to sand and refinish the teak decks.
is there anything special to know before starting, as far as the caulking (thikol) i think its called.. or anything else..
do i just start with a rough grit sandpaper on a belt sander and go from there??
any help would be greatly appreciated.
thank you
Brian

Brian;
Congratulation, great boat. Normally there is little reason to sand teak decks and lot's of reasons not to, pain in the butt for one thing plus with the price of teak comparable to gold, you don't want to waist any plus the plugs in the screw holes don't want to be minimized. On top of all that, there are simple 2 part teak cleaners that do a better job than sanding and are a breeze to use. West Marine has them. Have fun with your new old boat. Feel free to ask more as needed--------gary

THANKS AGAIN FOR THE QUICK REPLY.... I HAVE CHECKED THE DECKS AND THEY ARE AT LEAST 1 1/4" THICK... I DON'T THINK THEY'VE EVER BEEN SANDED DOWN.. THEY AREN'T THAT BAD BUT IM SO ANAL ABOUT THINGS I WANT THEM TO LOOK LIKE NEW SO I GUESS I'LL TAKE THE BELT SANDER AND GET THEM DOWN TO SMOOTH AND THEN USE SOME LIGHTER GRIT TO FINISH.... WHAT ABOUT THE CAULKING,, ITS A BLACK TAR LOOKING STUFF THAT I THINK IS CALLED "THICOL".. I GUESS IT WILL JUST SAND THE SAME WAY AS THE TEAK..
ANOTHER QUESTION..
WHAT ABOUT SANDING THE BRIGHT WORK ..? THE RAILS, ETC.. SHOULD I DO IT BY HAND, OR WOULD A SMALL PALM SANDER BE BETTER, OR, DO YOU KNOW OF ANOTHER TYPE ELECTRIC SANDER THAT WOULD WORK BETTER??
THE FIRST OWNER DIDN'T VARNISH, HE OILED EVERYTHING, SO THE RAILS, ETC... NEED TO BE SANDED TO BARE SMOOTH WOOD AND THEN VARNISHED NUMEROUS TIMES....
THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL THE INFO... I APPRECIATE IT..
BRIAN

Brian
Sounds like you got plenty of thickness, so go to it, the black polysulfide in the seams will sand just fine. I would give the bright work the same treatment as the deck, use the teak cleaner then sand it. The Makita palm sander is a great tool but for fine sanding put a thin sponge or some kind of soft pad between the sander bottom and the sandpaper. Spend the extra bucks for a good Varnish high in UV protection, wipe the teak with acetone before the first coat to get the surface teak oil off. Have fun, nothing more satisfying than seeing that beautiful teak come back to life. I myself preferred the gray look, easy to maintain as well---gary

The teak and holly sole in our sailboat needs to be refinished. In some
areas, the seam between the teak and holly strips is separating ever so
slightly. Do you have any ideas on how best to refurbish this? Thanks so
much for your help.
Susan

Susan:
The best bet is to strip the wood thoroughly of the old finish, sand well and apply several coats of an epoxy coating. Before applying the first coat wipe the wood down with acetone, this will rid the surface of oil and make the adhesion better. You can apply a coat or two of satin varnish over this to get better footing.The epoxy should penetrate into the small separations and act as a glue. Smith &Co in Richmond Ca makes an excellent epoxy for this purpose.. You can get more epoxy info. and I believe contact the company thru-----www.rotdoctor.com-------good luck--------gary

.
question: Dear Gary,
We just purchased an Aloha 34 and need to give it lots of TLC. What can I use on the interior teak to brighten it up. It has numerous coats of teak oil on it at present. Is there a product available that can clean it and /or lighten it up. The woodwork is beautiful but darks the boat.
Thanks Lyndee Lu

Lyndee Lu:
Great name. The only stuff I know to truly brighten up a dark teak interior is called white paint. Short of that there are 2 part teak cleaners on the market that will remove most of the oil and will lighten things up. On some boat models, especially those built in Tawain[sp] they went a bit crazy with the teak interiors and the overall effect is quite dark. As hard as it is psychologicaly to put paint to teak, painting the large flat surfaces,such as bulkheads, a bright white can make a big difference in the overall interior feel. Use the cleaner first and see how it feels. Good luck with your new old boat. Speaking of that check out www.goodoldboat.com----a great magazine for oldies but goodies-------------gary

Hello
Actually my boat is fiberglass but with character-we've made her as pirate-like as possible. e discovered a leak in the mast boot area has caused water to run on to our cabinet sole. The sole itself is teak and holly and appears fine except for some lifted varnish. However, their is moisture damage in the plywood subfloor area along the edge of the lockers- the support beams for the floor hatches do not seem effected but we are uncertain as we are going to inspect them all this weekend. Apparently this has goning on for a while and we had not noticed. Is there any recourse aside from removing the sole and laying down new plywood. Which seems a frightening task. Would we be foolish using a product like Get Rot or another sealer????
Pleb Boaters
Kevin and Lori
.

Kevin & Lori;
Yes, redoing the cabin sole is a major headache, but if the damage is not structural, which it doesn't sound as though it is, penetrating epoxy [getrot] might do some good. The unfortunate problem is that once the rot spores get into an area and there is not much air circulation, they will continue doing what they do. It would be helpful if you could dry the area well before applying the epoxy. Eventually you will have to bite the bullet and do the repair properly but for the time being do the quick fix and go sailing. If you want more info.on the penetrating epoxy go to www.rotdoctor.com.---------gary

.
question: I will be refinishing my cabin sole on an Irwin 38. Which method should I use and also what products do you suggest. It is a teak and holly sole not real bad shape but I do want to be ahead of any major redo. Thanks for your help
.

HI:
I assume the present sole is in fairly good condition and will not require and bleaching. Although there are some good epoxy products on the market, I tend to stay away from them because the ideal conditions needed to get good results are seldom present on a boat. I would use a good varnish like Epifane and do several coats of high gloss, sanding in between coats, and finish off with a flat or semi-gloss coat. The gloss coats are for the hardness and the flat top coat is to reduce slipperiness. This has been my way with good results but you will get many diverse opinions. If you want many opinions, somewhat confusing but informative, go to www.cruisingworld.com and post your question on the bulletin board. Here's a direct link CW/SW General Messages Board - Message Index -------good luck--gary

question: I'am in the process of restoring my cabin sole on my US yachts 33.
I was wondering if there was another type of plywood or wood that I could use other than the traditional teak and holly sole? Something that would stand up alot better to the moisture in the bilge.

Hi;
I would get a good cabinet grade birch plywood. It has a nice finish for painting, has waterproof glue, uses no fillers and has no voids. Make sure you seal the underneath surfaces with a good oil based paint or epoxy. Good luck----------gary

question: I want to install a new teak & holly sole in an Irwin 30 (1977). The original appeared to be both screwed and epoxied to the fiberglass sub-floor. Is that the proper way to install the new one?
Also what would be a good protective coating and how many coats??
Thanks ; jb

jb;
Yes, I would stick with the same way they did it. For a finish I prefer a good varnish, 3 coats of high gloss for hardness, topped with one coat of semi-gloss for a better nonslip surface. Also make sure the epoxy or polysulfide you use stays flexible so the normal swelling and contraction of the wood won't break the bond. Messy job but the results are well worth the effort------good luck------gary

pI have a 1971 Grand Banks 50. I found what I thought was dry rot in the
plywood on the insides of the bulwarks. As I started ripping into it, I
found termite activity. It seems to be limited to the plywood.
Have you any experience with this problem in a boat?
Do you have any advice about what my next step should be?
.

Jim:
Termites in a boat are a rare occurrence but, as you prove, it does happen. If you are lucky the activity is limited to the plywood and hopefully just to that piece. I would remove and replace that whole section of plywood and inspect the edges of the adjacent pieces for any indication of termite presence. I would also inspect all the ply on the bulwarks by taking the handle end of a screw driver and lightly tapping all around. Hopefully you will here a high pitch solid sound but if you get a dull thud something is amiss. I would also do this on the other exterior wood structures. I assume your Grand Banks is all wood so I would recommend getting a fumigator to do a thorough job on the inside. It's all a pain in the butt and wallet, but you want those critters taking up residence elsewhere. Good luck.-------g

Gary;I am not having any luck in finding anything but kiln dried mahogany. I
need to steam bend new toe rails and the kiln dried stuff won't work.
(unless there is a way to). Could you suggest a source or give me advice
on steam bending kiln dried lumber? Thanks
.

Rich;
Yes, finding mahogany with the proper water content for steaming is very difficult. You can reintroduce water by soaking the pieces over time. I would cut them to shape and wrap them in water soaked rags for a couple of weeks. The other possibility is cutting the stock in bendable strips and laminating up the toe rails in place. Also, although I don't know the length of your boat or the severity of the bend, I have often been able to bend in dried stock without steaming by having considerable overlap bow and stern. You also might consider a less exotic wood, such as fir, and paint them. Kiln dried teak, although very expensive, steams pretty well do to its high natural oil content. I hope this helps-----good luck---Gary

Mr. Wheeler,Thanks for the advice in advance.I've own my boat for 20 yrs.,and my father owned it before me for 15 yrs.It's a 20ft. Thunderbird cuddy that I converted to a center console.I want to enclose the transom and put a bracket on for the outboard.Would I have to make the new transon on a 90 degree or could I go with the original angle of the transom?Do you think that by putting the engine further back,I will run in to handeling problems,(planing,steering,)? Thanks again for any imputs Charles.

Charles:
I would tend to build the transom at the original angle and shim the outboard bracket if you need to. However by putting the weight aft of the transom you should beef up the new transom and add some sizable knees at the bottom and in the upper corners. It is difficult to say how much the trim of the boat will be effected but any problems can be overcome by adding trim tabs or putting some weight up in the bow. You will have to mess with it a bit to get it where you want it. I commend your effort to keep a family boat in good shape-----good luck ----gary

I am helping a friend with his 42 foot motor boat,
built about 50 years ago. We have it out of the water
and in a storage yard, since last Thursday. We are
now sanding the bottom prior to repairing it. I
noticed however that the transom appears to be moving
relative to the rest of the boat. I have attached 3
photos to show what is happening. I noticed the
movement because of the photo named 'paint.' The
planks on the sides near the tail of the boat are
moving and buckling the paint. Then the cracks showed
up on the corners of the boat. I think this is
because of the boat sitting on the blocks, but how
serious a problem is this going to be? Do we need to
panic, or what? Your help is greatly appreciated.

TERRY ABELL

Terry:
Yes, it appears something is going on. On older wooden boats the corner ribs where the plank ends and transom board ends are fastened can be a problem area. Often fresh water will get in from the decks and settle in this area and cause rot. I would take a hammer and tap all around this area and if you see a lot of vibration or hear a hollow thud as compared to a sharp solid sound, there is a good chance you have a problem. It could be just old loose fastenings but I would try to get into the inside of the aft corners with an ice pick and see if the ribs are soft. If you have to repair the inner structure, the easiest way is to pull the transom boards. That way everything is exposed and easy to work on. Good luck and feel free to ask more-------gary

question: Gary
I own a 1983 23' Thompson fisherman with an I/O. Last fall while installing a new alternator I noticed some bubbles on the inside of the transom. I started poking at it and took out rotted plywood to the gel coat. I don't know the extent of the damage until I pull out the motor and outdrive to remove a piece of plywood that is against the transom. Can you give me some information on how to go about making the repairs. Your advice would be greatly appreciated. Thankyou,
Ed

Ed:
Usually once rot enters that transom plywood the only repair is to pull it all out and replace it. You work from inside the boat cutting out the ply without damaging the outside glass. Replace the ply with a good marine grade, you may need 2 layers. If so, sandwich the 2 together with a layer of resin soaked fiberglass mat bewteen them. Also use this resin soaked matt to bed the new ply to the transom glass. Leave no spaces for fresh water to enter. Finally,using mat and roving, glass the ply edge to the hull where it meets the inside of the hull and cover the surface of the ply with a layer of fine glass cloth to seal it. Not a hard job, just messy---------g

question: I have a 1947 Texas Maid fiberglass 14` open fishing boat. The transom

has got to be replaced and I am having problems finding a spot that will tell me how to do it...I have already removed and cleaned the area where the old wood was at...Can you give me any help....Thanx. Bill

Here is my response to someone with the same problem. If you have further questions feel free to ask----g

Usually once rot enters that transom plywood the only repair is to pull it all out and replace it. You work from inside the boat cutting out the ply without damaging the outside glass. Replace the ply with a good marine grade, you may need 2 layers. If so, sandwich the 2 together with a layer of resin soaked fiberglass mat bewteen them. Also use this resin soaked matt to bed the new ply to the transom glass. Leave no spaces for fresh water to enter. Finally,using mat and roving, glass the ply edge to the hull where it meets the inside of the hull and cover the surface of the ply with a layer of fine glass cloth to seal it. Not a hard job, just messy---------g

Thanks, Last time I tried to use an adhesive between the layers and it did not work...Also used fiberglass resin between the transom and the hull...that did not work...never thought about using a resin soaked mat between them...appreciate the information.....Bill.

Glad I could help. Also another tip, use vinegar to clean resin off your hands, much less toxic than acetone------g

Dear Gary,
I need to find traditional travellers, about 2 feet wide for my main and
staysail for the Atkin
Ingrid ketch that I am about to finish.
I would like to get them preferably in stainless, but I don't want to get
the modern type with
adjustable runners, just the straight pipe with a hump at each end to stop
the block.
I have looked everywhere so far without any luck. Any ideas I could persue?

Thank you
Udo Nittner
.

Udo:
I don't think you will find them new anywhere, but you might find them through salvage. Check on www.sailorman.com and at www.minneysyachtsurplus.com. If not there I would have them fabricated, such simple fabrication wouldn't cost much, plus you get them just the way you want-----------gary

question: We are in Northwest Alabama and have a 1985 Hunter 28.5 Sailboat that we are replacing the cabin sole in. We are using a 1/2" thick 4' x 10' piece of teak and holly plywood cabin sole. We need to know how to finish the teak. After reading your posts we see that you mention Interlux varnish. Is this what we need to use and if so, how many coats? Do we need to sand between coats? Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Beth and Jim

The modern tech thinking would say to put on a couple coats
of clear epoxy before you varnish but I having become, much to my surprise,
and "old timer" tend to stick with what I know. My preferance would be a
well thinned 1st coat of high gloss varnish than 3-4 more coats of high
gloss with light sanding in between, and finally a coat of semi-gloss. The
high gloss coats give the hardness needed, the final semi-gloss gives less
slipperiness under foot. With varnish, you get what you pay for, Epifane
being the best, although Interlux is fine as well. Here's a paper on
alternatives, http://www.epoxyworks.com/18/varnish.html
Also, if you sole is not yet installed, I would put a sealer (varnish,
epoxy, paint) on the underside and edges of the ply to seal out moisture
from the bilge. Have fun-------gary

I was reading some of the questions on the web sites . When I came across one about coating epoxy over urethane . Yes it can be done , as some types of Urethanes are actually true epoxies in nature . Two component aliphatic Hydrocarbon . Refered to as type 1 - 4, they just need to be roughed up real good for adhesion . I used to formulate them for major manufactures .Each has it's own unique advantages as well as draw backs . Same with epoxies . Thanks ... Ken

Personally I stay away from urethanes or epoxies and just prefer a good
quality Varnish such as Epifane. Although many swear by epoxying the wood
before varnish, I do not. A few thin coats of varnish as a filler, then
stain if need be but preferably not, then 4-5 finish coats full strength of
high gloss for hardness and durability and one final coat of either high gloss or satin ( best for non slip like cabin-sole).Mix in a little Penetrol for improved flow and brushability ---gary

question: Hello from Ken on Second Wind. I am in the yard in Ensenada and just put in a teak and holly floor. I have put several coats of Spar Urethane on the floor. (wish I would have put epoxy)Some tools fell out of the box and left 2 gouges in the new floor. What could I use to fill it? Is there any way to put epoxy over urethane? If not, is there anything I can put on the floor to make it stronger than the urethane without completely removing the urethane? Thanks for your help

If the dings in the new floor are less than an inch long I would drill
them and glue in the appropriate size teak plug. If they are too large for
a plug I would chisel them fair and glue in fitted Dutchman. Any fillers
will stand out too much. I don't believe you can epoxy over urethane, but
you could try a small patch and see. Normally with a teak sole I will use
several coats of the very high gloss for its hardness and finish off with a
matt finish which gives better footing. Hope it all works out----------gary

question: Hello Gary:
Great site! I inherited a 37' 1953 Richardson cruiser. The varnished mahogany inside the cabin is in fairly good shape but some pieces along the side of the inside cabin look as if there is almost no varnish on them. I don't know what type of varnish was used. I'm a complete novice and just need to do the bare minimum to protect the wood. Can I just do a light sand and apply few more coats of varnish? What grit sandpaper and varnish do I need? The boat was used in the Great Lakes for 50+ yrs but now is in Tenn. Also, the back deck which I assume is mahogany strips with black stripping between is varnished and is thinning in areas. Can I touch it up the same way? We do not have the time/know how to completely strip and restore. I just want to keep it from degrading further. All the wood has many, many coats of varnish. There is one area on the back deck siderail where the varnish is cracking and deeply chipped. It is part of a very large piece of wood. Any help is greatly ap!

preciated as I am overwhelmed. The boat is in the water in a covered slip and I get to spend only about 2-3 days per month working on it. Thanks, Leigh

Sounds like a nice boat in decent shape. You are right not to take on
too much until you learn more and you are also right to do what is necessary
to protect what needs protecting. Touchung up is AOK. The grit of the
sandpaper depends on the
condition of the old varnish, if it's Ok or smooth bare wood, use 150 grit,
if it is cracking and rough, start with 80 and end up with 150. Basically start with the roughest
grit needed to get rid of the bad stuff and go up in grit until the surface
is very smooth.Use a good marine varnish like Interlux or others available
at marine stores. Thin down the first coat 1/2 thinner, 1/2 varnish and full
strength for the successive coats, 4-5 for bare wood.
Also, to begin educating yourself on maintaining such a vessel,
go to www.woodenboat.com and check out their book offerings on various
topics.
Good luck and ask more as needed---gary
.

I recently bought a 1961 Cape Cod Marlin23 daysailer. Two marine surveys found her well built and structurally sound. The toe rail,coaming and two 10 foot cockpit benches are mahogany. I have all the wood{by hand} down to bare wood. There is mucho discoloration but no rot or damage. Being a hands on misfit I was stunned by your reference to mahogony finished with oil rather than varnish. Please explain what I need to do re: oil...I can't varnish worth a hoot...But God lets me write jokes> "I called dial-a-date...but they had a headache!"

Hi-----When mahogany is discolored from age and weather wear it is difficult to get a good consistent finish with just oil. Usually one would first bleach the wood with oxalic acid, then apply an acrylic sealer , then a stain and then several coats of varnish. Saying that,you could go ahead and apply several coats of tung oil the way it is and see how it looks and do the other later if it looks lousy. Have fun with your new old boat---------gary

Hi Gary-I have these really beautiful trailboards that have been oiled. The finish has turned out to have a cloudy haze over some sections of the wood. I'm afraid that this does not do the boards justice. I would like to know if I can varish over the boards now with oiled surface and if so what proceedure and type of product would you recomend to start to do this. Is there any "yard cocotions" that would help me even out the finish, bring a slight shine to it and keep it protected. Please help...

Nice boat. No magic potions but the right treatment for the boards depends on the type of wood. It looks like teak and if so I would wipe it down with acetone scrubbing it with a 3m soft pad, let it dry and varnish with a good high UV protected varnish like Epiphane. Do 1/2 varnish and thinner for the 1st coat. Do 4-5 finish coats. If not teak, do the same process but substitute paint thinner for acetone.Have fun------gary

Thank you for your quick response back... As you may see it's been a supreme process for me learn to love varishing but with a Angleman you have too love it over and over again! I've been slowly working on her for 2 years and getting down to the finish stuff. I got kind of scared and little lazy with all this detail work with the trailboards and thought oil would be the answer VS sand/varish/sand/varish-again & again... I have been told that boat was built in Japan and that the trailboard wood was some kind of Japanese Oak? Could that be? In your opinion was the oil option a real mistake in finish for this type of project? The detail is crazy. Please advise...I want to do right for trailboards.

Yes, in fact the grain looks like oak. You did nothing wrong by using oil, but over time the oil discolors and readily collects dirt. I would try the varnish after an aggressive wipe down with thinner--------g

Gary-Thank you for your opinion. Back to the sweet smell of the varnish can and sandpaper manicure... Wish me dilagence!

Thank you for making yourself available to me and to others for your great help.

Your welcome, send me a photo when you're done, I am sure they will look beautiful--------g

question: I'm the father of Ryan with the 23ft Chris-Craft and I didnt understand about painting over the woodwork? I Know I have seen wood boats in FL. that are showing varnished wood. Do they just have to redoit more times a year?

Yes, they have to do it quite often, plus the dark natural wood color absorbs the heat and tends to somewhat dry out the wood. Northern boaters who take the yachts to the tropics often just use white paint right over the varnish. This protects the wood better, reflects the heat and makes it easy to return to the varnish finish when one wants by just sanding off the paint. If one keeps after the varnish in these climates bright work is OK, but the problems come about if the varnish is let go and fresh water gets under it and rot begins and in those climates rot moves fast.

question: Hi Gary, I have a 19.5ft Garwood Runabout. It was professionally restored in 1984. I have used it consistently since then and I having some problems. The varnish has blistered in a few areas, mainly the transom,also around some plugs mid hull.

Not wanting to do another pro refinish at this time I started some do it myself repair work. I have sanded the transom to bare and spot sanded some spots on the hull only to find spot repairs aren't cuttin it.

The hull has some darkening in a couple of areas. How big a problem is this. The wood seems solid.
I have read in some of your emails you recommend sealing before stain.
Do you recommend this before using a filler/stain?
Since spot repairs don,t seem to be the answer what do you rec for a stripper?
Thanks for your time. Dave

Nice boat. Those dark spots indicate some water getting behind the varnish. After years of adding a coat every season there is a point where the first coat starts coming away from the wood and it's time to start over. I use a Jabsco epoxy stripper because it seems more potent than the others. If you have dark stains , you may have to bleach the wood with Oxalic acid, available in hardware stores. Yes,even if you are going to stain you need a filler first to seal the soft grain, a combo filler stain won't give an even color. Have fun, a lot of elbow grease but she'll look great------g

question: Hello Gary, Question: I'm about to un-step the mizzen on my 41' Formosa. While down, I want to refinish. Currently, it is all varnish. Any recommendations on alternatives finishes? We use "bristol Finish" on the toe rail and trim with great success and though about it on the mast. I also thought about coating the mast in West and then using Bristol over that. I'm concerned about cracking when the mast flexes. So, I'm looking for a method that will seal the mast better and provide good protection from the sun and more importantly, the water. Thanks, Ed

Paint-----is what I finally went for, although I left the first 6ft from the deck varnished. Other than that if you go all varnish just use the one with highest UV rating i.e.. the most expensive. Stay away from epoxies, they trap water and prevent air penetration.------gary

Thanks Gary. I'm going to have to pass on the paint however, I'm curious as to Bristol Finish instead of varnish. Thoughts?

Can't really say, I have never used it but in general I have not liked a urethane finish and wonder again about trapped moisture. But, if you have had success with it on your rails there is no reason not to give it a try on your mast. You might want to ask that question on the cruising world forum at http://forum.cruisingworld.com/forums/genlmesg/index.pl --------g

question: We have a fiberglass boat, with some beautiful brightwork, including rails and caps, that need work. They are mahogany. Seems like "oil" is the way to go, but newer synthetics like "Cetol" sound like over time, they may require less maintenance. Any suggestions?

Forget the newer stuff, it lasts no longer and tends to have its own coloration which stains the wood. Still varnish or oil are the best options. With oil, like penetrol, you get good water protection but the wood tends to gray out quicker and an oil surface tends to collect dirt and in general is harder to keep clean than Varnish, although it is easier to maintain. Varnish looks sharp and gives the most protection but is high in maintenance. Personal preference really, just stay away from the Cetols and high tech epoxies------------enjoy---gary

Help!
I have been restoring and refinishing teak wood for a client and no matter how gentle I am with the varnish (I strain, don't stir) and loading my brush I still get some tiny bubbles. Can you give me some tips to burst this vexing problem. They also follow me to other woods besides teak!
Thanks in advance for addressing this headache.
Carol (An artist that lives on her own boat)

Carol;
I am not a great varnish expert, but I usually add some penetrol, an oil available in paint and hardware stores, and that helps. If you want other answers go to CW/SW General Messages Board - Message Index and post your question. Nice life living aboard, I did so for 7 years in SF> CA. Hope this helps-----gary

Which varnish is the best with regards to appearance & durability ?
Cetol Sikkens, Interlux Schooner,West Marine, Epifanes,Z-spar, Pettit?

Hello,

I have a question to ask you, if you wouldn't mind taking the time to answer a question you've probably heard 1,000s of times.
I have an 18 Foot LeeCraft Day Cruiser, with Mahogany Plywood, that's in need of new Varnish. I've been shopping around and have found what I think is the better of the Marine Varnishes....Epifanes Clear Gloss.This boat is not going to touch Salt Water (No ocean near Montana). Is this a recommended varnish? If so, how would you recommend the product be applied?
Your time would be GREATLY appreciated.
.

Hi:
Simple question, not so simple answer. Yes, Epifane is a top grade varnish, maybe the top. I assume you are working with bare wood. If you are going to do any staining you should seal the wood first with an acrylic sealer then apply your stain. This avoids blotching caused by the various absorption rates of the surface. If you are not staining the sealer is not necessary. Next apply the first coat thinned down about 20%. After that proceed full strength with 4-6 additional coats. Of course, no rolling, and get the best brush you can find. There are many today who recommend, and swear by, putting down a couple coats of epoxy before varnishing, but I feel the epoxy keeps the wood from breathing which eventually could lead to problems. I hope this helps. It sounds like a nice boat and there is nothing prettier than a varnished hull.-------gary

I need information as to the type of vanish to use.
I intend to completely strip the old varnish on the exterior of my 1966
34 ft ketch.
I intend to use a scrapper and for the more difficult area a heat gun. I
will then sand the wood. I intend on putting 3-5 coats to create a
beautiful gloss.
What I would like to know is what type of vanish to use. I want a vanish
that will last more that one season.
I have never done this before and want to do a good job.
Thank you in advance
Patrick
.

Patrick:
The best varnish is Epifane, a Dutch product that always comes up tops in all the tests. It is worth the extra bucks and should last 5-7 years. Follow the instructions to the letter. To strip the old varnish using a heat gun is fine but it does tend to melt the old varnish into the pores of the wood. So for the last bit of scraping I recommend using a strong varnish & paint remover which will get the old stuff out of the wood. You want the new varnish to get into the wood pores so it is important that they are free of the old stuff. Put on 4 coats of varnish and add one every couple of years until you reach 7 or 8 coats and then its back to stripping again. Good luck-----gary
.

Hello:
I noticed your name on the Marine do it yourselfer web site, and I would
appreciate your advice. I have an older sailboat with a Spruce boom. The
previous owners did not keep up on the varnish work, and I have inheritted a
project! I have been able to successfully strip the old varnish, but now I have
a boom with tons of gray spots where the varnish had worn out completely. I'd
like to bleach it back to a consistent color, then re-varnish. What should I
use? I have tried TSP, but it doesn't seem to put a dent in the gray/black
areas. It worked great on my teak, but not the boom. Thanks very much for your
help!
-Tom

Tom:
Go to the hardware store and get some Oxalic[sp] acid, it is an excellent wood bleach. Unfortunately sometimes the weathermarks are so engrained you can't get them out so remember a well painted boom is better than a badly varnished one. If you do varnish use a high quality product such as Epifane, the extra $ is worth it. Good luck---gary
.

We own an Angleman Seawitch 36 that has brightwork which has to be completely redone, is tere any way of using epoxy to seal the wood before applying varnish, thus eliminating the need to go to bare wood again? ora

Ora:
Yes, many swear by the technique of applying an epoxy layer before varnishing and it seems to bear good results. My only concern is that epoxy does not breathe so any moisture that gets under the epoxy will likely turn to rot, but if you keep a close eye on any dark spots that appear, you should be ok.-----------gary

Hello

My name is carlos i have came across a (what i am told ) is a 1896 John Atkins Wooden sailboat About 36 feet.
I have never had a boat i got this throw a law suit with someone who owed me money,I live in Maimi Florida , You can imagine
a wooden boat here. Well when i first got her she was in pretty good shape now its been a year and she's run down with the sun
and she also had a little electrical fire . I dont know what to do i would like to restore her but i have a couple of worries. The sun her eats throw varnish very quickly and how much would it cost. I have heard of a product which say you can have the beauty of a wooden boat without the hassle. I think it would be some type of clear fiberglass which you apply and don't need to worry about the sun anymore but I am not sure if that's what it is. And i also heard if you seal the out side hull with something like that the wood will not be able to breath and would eventually rot is this true or have you ever heard of such a product that can resist the sun where you apply once and never worry about it again? and if so will this product rot the wood because it can not breath? and do you or do you know someone in or near Florida who knows how to restore (the right way)? Please reply as soon as possible . I have never wanted or ever had a boat but she is so beautiful it is a same to sit back and what her deteriorate and not do anything. I have looked everywhere and i can not see another boat like this one and i have checked everywhere.Thank you in advanced
Carlos

Carlos:
I can understand your concern, you have a real classic boat there. Unfortunately there is no magic product that will meet your needs. The epoxies are not good for the wood and the varnishes won't last. I know many sailors solve the problem by painting the wood, some even paint over the varnish so when they reach a cooler climate they can strip the paint off easily. Paint would be my choice, however, if the boat is as old as you think it is and has not undergone a rebuild, there is a good chance it suffers greater problems than the varnish. The problem with owning a classic wooden boat, especially in your climate, is that you must either be very knowledgeable and have lots of time to work on the boat or you must have lots of money to pay others to do so on a continuous basis. If neither of these options describes you, I think you should consider selling her to someone that can maintain her. You literally own a piece of history. If you decide to sell her, an ad in Wooden Boat magazine would be a good idea. Sorry to be rather bleak but better you should know what you might be getting into now rather than later.----------------good luck----gary

Hi, Gary,
I am doing some brightwork on a 1960 Owens and need some advice. Everything has gone without any problems - 'til now! The boat has a large plank of teak that runs from bow to stern on the edge of the boat. I have removed the old varnish, sanded, and cleaned it with a paste I have used for years (Ajax cleanser with bleach softened to a paste with detergent) and rinsed with a borax solution. After a day or so these damned little black spots show up. So I clean it again. Another day or so and they are back - usually in the same area. I will be varnishing this teak (per owner's request), but don't want to varnish over the spots. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Carol
.

Carol:
That's a tough one. Usually when I have had the little black spot problem it has been do to minuscule pieces of metal, left from steel wool or minuscule pieces of old fastenings {like staples} bedded deep in the wood. When you sand over it the rust disappears but then returns a day later after moisture has gotten to it. Whether this is the problem or not, I think I would try using some sealer on the wood right after your final sand and see if the spots return. Also the spots might be bleeding from steel fastenings that were plugged over. If this is the case you have to remove the plug, polish the head of the fastening using a piece of rigging wire in a drill and seal the head with some epoxy and glue in a new plug. I hope this helps-----If not, take your question to the forum at www.boatbuilding.com-------------gary

Dear Gary,
I have just completed the brightwork on a 1956 Chris Craft. It is gorgeous. My client asked me if there is a wax or polish product that can be applied over the varnish. Do you recommend waxing over varnish? If so, is there a product you have found to be the best?
I would appreciate any guidance or recommendations you can throw my way.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Carol

Carol.
Waxed varnished exterior wood looks great for about a week than the sun's UV get to it and it turns all cloudy, not a good thing. I have never heard of any effective finish over varnish although I have heard of varnish over epoxy. Tell the owner if he wants to preserve and protect that fine finish he has to either get a covered berth or get canvas covers for the varnished areas. Of course, when needed you can put another coat on but about 7 coats altogether is the limit, then it is get out the scraper and sandpaper, strip it, and start again. Good luck------gary

Hi, Gary,
I have a new client for brightwork who has a 1972 Swan. The stern cabin door was damaged by the owner years ago and a half inch plug was put in and the surrounding area feather to match the door as closely as possible. He had another brightworker do finish maintenance. When the guy lightly sanded and started to add coats of varnish the plug and surrounding area stuck out like a sore thumb!
He has come to me and ask if I can get the appearance back to the way it was before the maintenance was done.
Help!!
Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Carol

Carol:
Normally you would have to take the whole hatch down to bear wood then wet it with water to see if the plug area still doesn't match. If it doesn't and you want to get paid you will have to lightly stain the whole hatch and hopefully you will get a match. Put a coat of sealer on before you stain, this helps to get an even color. Also if there is a big color difference between the plug area and the rest of the hatch after you brought it back to bear wood, you may want to bleach it with oxalic acid. Have fun, it is a difficult problem. If all else fails, paint it--------------good luck---gary

Hi, Gary,
Thanks for your tips to repair a mismatched plug repair on a teak door. Your advice to strip, bleach, and rebuild the finish worked beautifully. I'll send you before and after pictures as soon as I download them.
My newest challenge is a 1956 Chris Craft runabout. The owner has asked me to put a maintenance coat of varnish on the topside. The boat is in very good shape and the varnish has only a few bad spots. My concern is a couple of caulking strips between slats on the stern have begun to pull apart. The slats are not coming up and the owner has asked if there is a temporary caulking material you might recommend to at least seal them just for the summer. We are dry docking her this winter in a warehouse where we will completely restore her.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Carol

Carol;
Those old ChrisCrafts are beautiful boats. The caulk used in the seams is a polysulfifde caulk that comes in tubes in different colors, ie while, tan, and black. Get it in a marine store, Sikaflex or 3M are the companies that make it. For a temporary fix cut out the loose or cracked caulk with a razor knife being careful not to damage the edges of the wood. Put tape on both sides of the seam, lay in your caulking, push in with a putty knife, then pull the tape fairly immediately. When you pull the tape pull lit back against itself like this <, not straight up This also would be the method you would use if you were doing all the seams, which you should do as part of your winter restoration. These are great boats to restore, lots of beautiful mahogany. Have fun and I am glad the bleaching worked out.-----gary

I recently bought a 1959 Gibbs wood boat. it is mahoghany, and is a 16 ft.
outboard. the outside, particularly the top needs finished. do you have any
ideas where i should begin, and what i should use to seal it. also, do you
have any info on Gibbs boats. it was built in erie, michigan, and we can't
find any information at all on it. thanks...........dick

Dick;
Sorry, I don't know the Gibbs boats but would suggest you go to www.woodenboat.com and ask your question in their forum. As far as refinishing is concerned, if the finish in place is bad you have to remove it with a combination of remover and sanding. Once down to smooth bear wood, seal it with and acrylic sealer than cover with 4 coats of varnish. If the finish there is salvageable, sand well and recoat with varnish. If you have more specific questions please ask. Enjoy your boat------gary

Hi, Gary,
I have been asked to put a fresh coat of ManO'War Marine Varnish over the existing Epifanes Varnish (after lightly sanding of course!). We're going to dry dock her and take her to the bare wood this winter at which time he wants Epifanes used exclusively. My question. Would the two varnishes be compatible? Does the age of the Epifanes coat make a difference? If there's going to be a reaction what should I look for? There are no breakes in the integrity of the Epifanes so I will only need to lightly sand after washing her down.
Thanks again for your help.
Carol

Hi Carol:
Nice to see your keeping busy. There should be no compatibility problems between the two Varnishes although I don't get why your not using Epifane since that appears to be the Varnish of choice. All varnishes are basically compatible but you will get a better bond by using the same stuff. Have fun-------------g

Gary:
I'm new to boating. One of these guys who's been reading for 10- years and
is finally getting off of the proverbial pot!
There are several products on the market that claim a chemical solution to
stripping and refinishing furniture grade wood. However, when I refinished
the birch cabinetry in my house, I sanded and refinished with Varathane
Diamond Finish. It promises durability and UV protection, etc, etc. I liked
the results so much, I refinished my front door the same way. Really shines.
So my question is: Why not use this finish to refinish the wood on the boat
I buy? Why is varnish being applied over and over again on boats, when these
synthetic materials are available? Is there a hidden problem with them, or
do old habits just die hard? It seems to protect the wood beneath a...layer
of clear prtectant, like a basketball court.
The boat I like is the wood 36 Grand Banks. As a second choice The
"tri-cabin" style of the 70's appeals to me. Particularly the Trojan 36 tri
cabins. What's your opinion of these? When I am ready to move up, will they
be impossible to sell because of the dated look? What is their REAL price
range?
I like the style of the tri-cabins, but I like the operating economy and
easy re-sale of the GB's. Both of these choices are somewhat price driven; I
have the money to maintain, but don't want to shell out over a hundred k at
the purchase. Not for my first boat! I'll use a surveyor for both, of
course!
I'll be using the boat to cruise the Caribbean, and South Florida, with from
2 to 4 aboard.What would YOUR choice be, in your infinite wisdom?! And by the way, if your
desires were to cruise the Caribbean while keeping initial purchase price
low, what would YOU choose to do it on? And don't say a sailboat!
Thanks,
John Morganfield

John:
Personally I don't think you can beat the Grand Banks, great construction and good looks. Price range is totally dependent on your finances and how ready the boat is to do what you want. As far as the urethane finish is concerned, they do not let the wood breath which is very important on boats because of constant expansion and contraction, and they have little UV protection and break down quickly in direct sunlight. Also many of the exotic woods, such as teak, that are used on boats have a high natural oil content which is incompatible with urethane. This is why either varnish or a natural oil are the preferred finishes---------gary

HI: I have tried to revarnish a pair of old wooden paddles. One was graying and lost much density to the wood. After sanding down to solid wood, I applied a good quality spar varnish. The wood turned a dark gray and not as nice as I wood have liked. My question is this; should I have applied a sealer, stain, bleach, something to enhanced the appearance prior to the varnish. Was there something I could have done in the prep that would have helped?
Thanks

Hi.
Yes, old tired wood is difficult to finish especially with varnish because the wood just absorbs it and stays dark. A sealer would have helped to keep the wood from absorbing the varnish but the best for the wood would be oil. After too many years some paddles have to retire and become wall ornaments. For future reference, it is always best to use a sealer on wood before you varnish or stain. It evens out the absorption rate of the hard and soft grain in any piece of wood.-------------gary
.

Thank you for looking at my question.
I have a wooden Albacore dinghy being wintered and I am not sure whether I should
a) Sand off all varnish and revarnish
b) Sand to key varnish and revarnish
c) Leave it until next year

Can you give me any tips as to what I should do please ?
Thanks
Mathew Kay

Mathew:
There is no sense in stripping off all the varnish unless it is cracking and peeling. It would be best just to touch it up for this year and if you want to make it all new next year plan a time to do it and get all your varnish removers scrapers and sandpaper ahead of time and maybe even find a good book on varnishing. Enjoy your boat and feel free to ask more questions, the more specific the better-------gary

question: Hi:
I am refinishing a 1955 Criscraft outboard kit boat. The varnish on he inside is lifting off with a putty knife (in most places). I lightly sand the wood prior to finishing and I see little shiny spots like there was random brass inside the wood. It is almost like pepper size spots, random and nothing is attached on the outside that might have used staples or something. They are numerous and totally random which makes me think they are imbeded in the plywood used for the hull.

Also, the varnish on the floor of the boat and a bit up the sides is markedly darker. It could be just that there are more layers or thicker layers but my question is, is there something stronger that is put down there as oposed to further up the sides of the boat, the seats etc?
Thanks for your input.

Can't say exactly but it sounds as though the varnish that is lifting is applied to an incompatable surface, a surface previously coated or impregnated with a plastic type substance. The darker areas indicate the varnish was soaking into the wood as it should rather than just sitting on the surface. Whatever is going on, you didn't cause it. I would try to contact CCraft and see what they say. Let me know if you get an answer------------gary
.

question: Gary,
Our client finished his toerail with 4 coats of epifanes and 2 coats of two-part plyurethane varnish one year ago. He called us and said that the glossy finish is gone and it looks a little yellow except when wet from water, then it looks great. I haven't seen it yet, but if the base is sound, shouldn't we just be able to lightly sand and apply a new top coat or two? If so, do we need to use two-part poly again?(I've never tried it) The owner called thinking that all the current finish needs to come off and we need to start with bare wood, but says no bare wood is currently showing. My guess is that it just needs a maintenance coat. What do you think?
Thanks, Dave in Charleston,SC

Dave;
The epifane is a very fine oil based varnish, not compatable with a polyurethane. This is the reason for the problem plus the polyurethane is more sensitive to the suns UV rays and will discolor. Some use a high UV regular varnish over a coat or two of epoxy but I would not recommend either. You need to at least sand off the urethane and add a couple more coats of epifane, but the bottom line is to know that you have solved the problem you probably should wood it out and just go with the epifane----------good luck------g

question: I have a 65 Owens 30' that I picked up this year. So over the winter
I have taken the mahagany rails off to refinish. I have spriped them
down as best I can but I still have dark areas down in the grain.
What is the best way to clean this up. Also when I refinish the wood
do I need to stain or oil the wood before I varnish it.

Thank You
Dale

Dale;
Nice boat, I've worked on many over the years. Usually with mahogany that's been exposed to the weather for years, whether well protected or not, will get areas of deep discoloration. The best you can do after stripping down to bare wood is to use wood bleach(oxalic acid) over the whole piece, paying special attention to the stained areas. Than, to get an even color you should first use a clear wood sealer, after drying and sanding, apply a mahogany stain, red or brown, and then when you get the color you like, finish with at least 4 coats of a good UV rated Varnish.. The sealer is used to fill the grain so the stain soaks in evenly rather than blotching because of the different absorption rates of the soft and hard grain. Enjoy your new old boat. Fell free to ask more as needed-----g

question: Gary: Using an excellent varnish on a re-do of a 1968 CC 17' Grand Prix. Aside from thinning the varnish, how do I best get rid of the fine bubbles. When I sand with 1000 grit after drying, I, of course,
get the shaded areas which cannot be just washed out. Trying to understand wet sanding also. How to, etc. Thanks
Bob

Spend the money for a badger hair brush and add a bit of Penetrol. Also if you want a non blotchy even color, caused by the varnish absorbing into the soft grain more than the hard, use a wood sealer before you varnish.and or before you stain.----no real trick to wet sanding, just get the proper emery cloth and dip it in water and sand with the grain, although many prefer using a very fine bronze wool instead.------have fun------gary

question: I just put a glossy stain polyurethane on a pine table, but I wish I would have used satin. Can I put satin polyurethane over the glossy to obtain a less shiny surface?

Sure can, just fine sand or steel wool to take the gloss out first. Actually
in the cabin sole of boats gloss varnish is laid first to create a hard base
and then a matte finish is laid over that so when wet the floor is not
slippery underfoot.--gary

I bought an older boat, a 28 foot aloha. She checked OK on the survey just two small wet spots on the deck that I was told would be OK for a year or two. I am hoping to fix them this spring....
My question is this, on the interior they had some bad leaks and now that the teak is dry it is very ugly and black. What can I do to correct this without ripping out the whole wall or panel?
Thanks, Kathay

Kathay:
Nice boat! Unfortunately the teak is probably just a veneer so you can't vigorously go after the stains. I would carefully sand off what varnish is left and try some oxalic acid bleach, available at any hardware store. It may take several applications. If that doesn't work you can either paint it or cover it with some useful small cabinet or art object. If it were solid teak you could just sand and refinish. Have fun with your new old boat. You might like this site www.goodoldboat.com: The Sailing Magazine for the Rest of Us ----------gary

question: I've been putting off for too long a way to get up the mast to deal with a crisis situation in the rigging. However, I am skeptical about one thing: What happens if the problem is my main halyard becoming fouled or parting? If the mainsail cannot be struck, or if the halyard cannot bring down the head of th mailsail, or if the main halyard jams or parts -- well, it look to me as if one should still have a good bosun's chair on board, contrary to your implication that the Mast Mate substitutes for it in all particulars. Is there a way in which the Mast Mate nevertheless can be deployed without the main halyard? The only way I can imagine this in the scenarios I have described is to use the topping lift, if its cordage is strong enough, to lift the Mast Mate. In cases where the main cannot be struck, this would involve, contrary to your admonition, the need to raise the Mast Mate without fitting its lugs into the luff track. However, on my sloop, the topping lift is a fixed S/S cable with only a terminating block through which a line is run to raise and lower the boom. Any comments, suggestions, or new perspectives on these conundrums would be deeply appreciated.Jerry Donaldson
.

Jerry:
Good questions. I don't think I say anywhere to banish one's bosun's chair to a landlocked closet, in fact, one can use it in conjunction with the Mast Mate in several ways. Now to your conundrum. Yes, if the mainsail is stuck or your halyard parts, you are in a bit of a pickle. However several single handers have told me they have used the mast mate unattached to the track by tying it off around the mast in several spots as they ascend and doing the opposite as they descend. Not pretty but they said it worked. With the main halyard out of commission and if you have a masthead rig, the jib halyard would be the line of choice to raise the MM, but as you stated, the topping lift, if stout enough and is lead from a masthead block down the mast, can also be used. I always prefer the topping lift arranged in this fashion because it is nice to have an emergency halyard available.
Of course the salesman in me says, if you had a Mast Mate in the first place, being that it is so simple to use by oneself, you would keep up the maintenance on the mast track and masthead shivs and pulleys and the likelihood of a main stuck mishap would be much reduced. I hope this is an adequate response and convinces you to buy a Mast Mate which, when not in use, could be stowed neatly next to your bosun's chair.-------------gary
.

Not only am I convinced by the last paragraph in particular, but it is the
quality of the gentleman with his candor and honesty lying behind the product
which also convinces me. Now to find the most suitable bosun's chair for storing
my Mast Mate . . . .
Jerry Donaldson
P.S. In thinking and reading the comments of others on your web site, Gary, I'm
also convinced that the most important thing you can do for personal safety is to
use the unrebutted PRINCIPLE OF REDUNDANCY, viz., don't rely on only one safety
strategy, but always overlay it with another so that one increases the fail-safe
character of a dangerous proposition. For example, I've been sitting here
thinking that ascent on the Mast Mate should be accompanied by (a) wearing a
safety harness tethered to halyard paid out around a winch and cleat by a hand on
deck and/or (b) a strap-like bosun's seat similar to the ones used by window
washers so that climbing isn't inhibited by, especially, a hard-seat bosun's
chair. And I say "and/or" because if it were possible not to get entangled in
TWO halyards going up, I'd be tempted to wear BOTH the harness AND the soft
bosun's seat! I have absolutely no illusions at 57 about the potential for
injury and the extent to which one is vulnerable -- in January '99, I slipped on
ice on deck and broke the right fibula at the ankle clean through. Now I have a
5-inch titanium plate and 7 screws there. I've recovered almost 100 percent and
have been back running my 3 miles a day since June '99, but, as I said, I do not
underestimate the potential for danger doing anything on board a small boat, much
less going aloft

Gerry:
Life is a risky business especially when your 40ft up a mast, so of course anything one can do that sensibly reduces that risk is a good idea. However, I have noticed in my own desire to have safety first, that the very safety device or configuration thereof can increase rather than reduce the risk. You will notice when climbing the Mast Mate, your body being upright, close to the mast with hands head high around the mast, you are in a very good position to react quickly and help yourself if something goes amiss. Also, one certain advantage of the MM is going loft alone which eliminates the easy use of backup safety lines. Although I certainly recommend safety first, I stay away from recommending how to accomplish this, for I think it more prudent to leave that to the creativity and common sense of the individual sailor. Fortunately sailors as a lot, at least the ones who buy the MM, seem overall to be a sensible and inventive group. I would be most interested on your feedback after you have used the MM a few times.--------gary

I have a Beneteau 36cc with in mast roller furling. Will the mast mate work
on a mast with a wide slot like mine where the sail actually goes into the
mast? If so, will I have to take the mainsail down when I use the mast mate
or can I just roll it up?
Charles

Charles:
I appreciate your interest in the Mast Mate, but unfortunately it cannot work with the in mast roller furling system. Some sailors with that system add an off center external track, both for a back up main and to use the Mast Mate. Fair winds----Gary
.

Hello:
I have a WIlliam Garden design 37' "wanderbird" sailing ketch. She was
built in Hong Kong in 1969 and is teak planked on Ipol frames with teak
decks and spruce masts.
I am a Navy Officer who is going to be going to Italy for a couple of
years and am looking at option for storage of my boat in the meantime. I
am curious as to whether I can safely put this vessel in dry storage for
several years without damaging the hull since it has been in the water for
years with the exception of its normal bottom painting haul outs.
I know that if I do this that I would likely have to recaulk the hull
planks but am more concerned about any cracking of planks, cracking around
the copper rivets etc.
So I am requesting your opinion on doing this. The boat would be stored
either in North Carolina, where it is currently moored or up on the
Chesapeake near Oxford Md.

Thanks

Chuck Rhodes
Cedar Point, NC
.
Chuck:
Nice boat. The problem with long term dry storage of a wood boat is that you don't really know the effects until you do it and than it is too late. I can't really say it would be OK and personally I wouldn't do it. I would try to find a cheap way to get it to Italy, great sailing there. For what you would end up paying for dry storage you could probably put it on a freighter or persuade the Navy to put it aboard one of their many ships. I hope this is of some help. Oh, one other option, you could get it up here to Maine and I'll take care of it for you------------------Gary

I have a 24 wood skif stern drive boat last fall when the boat was put away for winter I removed the outdrive for repair over the winter. In the spring the outdrive will not go on . With my alinement tool it is telling me the eng. is to high. what do I do to get the boat back in shape on land?
Thanks dave

Hi:
Yes, the boat changed shape and unfortunately the only way to get it back is to put it back in the water with the engine in it.What I would do is put the outdrive where it belongs and block and wedge the engine in position such that it lines up with the outdrive.Put the boat in the water and after the boat has sat for a week or so everything should go back to where it was and you can mount the engine properly.----good luck-------gary

Howdy! I'm refurbishing a wood rig to put on my steel project boat. It's from a "Force Fifty" ketch, a Taiwan boat of 70's vintage, so it's not spruce. Whatever the wood is, it's very straight grained and totally clear, and all the glue joints look just fine It had termite damage in the partners area, which I took care of by scarfing in new wood (I used fir). I've got it all Painted up and nearly ready to step. I heard that wood rigs can get dry rot on the inside and fail without warning. Is this true? I've sealed up all places where moisture could get in. Is there any chemical that I could spray through holes into the hollow spaces to prevent rot? Sure would appreciate any thoughts on this. By the way, the boat is a Hartog design. I understand he was a Bay area guy (died a few years ago). It, s not bad looking for a steel boat-traditional looking with a canoe stern.

Hi;
Nice project. I have never heard of wooden mast failure do to internal rot but I suppose if rainwater got in there it could happen. The best preventative is to keep the fresh water out, but if you want to spray something in there use copernal ,it is copper based and a wood preservative and is available through any hardware or paint store. Good luck---gary

Gary, Thanks a lot for the advice regarding copernal, and keeping freshwater out. By the way, Did I mention it's a rig from a Taiwan boat. Do you happen to know what kind of wood it would be and it's properties? It's definitely not spruce, but is clear and straight grained and quite a bit lighter and softer than fir.

Your welcome and I am not familiar with what they use for spars, but you might ask that question on the cruising world bulletin board, I am sure you would get a response. Here's the hyperlink CW/SW General Messages Board - Message Index ----gary

I am the proud new owner of a 1947 wood Star Class boat. It hasn't been
in the water for nearly 15 years and came with a broken mast. The boat
is sound and I am now trying to determine whether I can repair the mast.
A friend suggested that I ask your opinion.
The mast is 33 feet. The break (the mast is fractured but not broken
off) is 10 feet or so from the top where the diameter is aproximately 9
inches. A friend has spruce available for the repairs.
What would you recommend? If you recommend the repair, do you know of a
good book or article?

Thanks for any advise you can offer.

.
Dick;
So, you are the proud owner of a classic, now the work begins. I am sure there is a way to repair the mast by scarfing in a new top piece. If it is hollow with the two halves glued together extend one half 4 feet beyond the break and the other a foot or so. Where it joins the original mast your scarf should be 12 to 1 i.e. 4in radius=48in scarf. So if one half is joined to the original 4 feet beyond the break, which means you cut out 4 feet of the original, and the scarf is 48in you are extending the new half about 8 feet into the original, plenty strong. The other half starting one foot beyond the break, would extend 5 ft beyond the break. I assume the mast is tapered so you would have to shape your stock accordingly. You may have to laminate some pieces to get the thickness you need. Use a good epoxy glue and plenty of clamps, hose clamps come in real handy. Check the archives at www.woodenboat.com for articles on mast building and repair and also get further advice at www.boatbuilding .com. good luck----gary

I recently acquired a 1967 24' cascade sailboat. Currently my wooden mast
is laying in 3 peices on my basement floor. I'm not rich but I need to
know how to make another wooden mast to replace the old one for the
cheapest amount possible.

Any help you could give pointing me in the right direction would be much
appreciated.

David Saxon

David:
The first question is, is the old mast broken or merely come apart at the glue joints? Can you get accurate measurements from it?----------gary

The mast was cut into thirds before I got the boat. I already got an accurate measurement of
32' 4". I have all three pieces in my basement.
.

David;
OK, there is no saving it, so your choices are to look for a salvage job with a mast, aluminum or wood, the right height or build one out of wood. Usually wood masts of that height are 4 sided glued tapered boxes with the aft side, where the sail goes, being perpendicularly true. The hardest part is having a flat level bench to build it on and having sufficient clamps, although I usually make the clamps out 2x4s and threaded rod as well as using large hose clamps. The next problem is finding the wood. Sitka spruce is the ideal choice because it's strength to weight ratio is ideal, but clear grain quarter sawn fur is OK.The mast is simply a tapered hollow box with solid wood blocks placed internally at attachment areas i.e. where the spreaders attach, at the top and, if it is stepped on the keel there is a solid block extending from the base up to a little beyond the winches, this is also the case if the mast is stepped on deck. The step by step process is a bit much to get into here plus there have been several articles in Wooden Boat magazine detailing what must be done. I suggest you go to www.woodenboat.com and check their archives and also their book selections. I hope this has been helpful and feel free to ask more questions.--------gary.

I have a funny story and a question. I was looking at a wonderful steel cutter, 33', serious bluewater boat built in Germany. She has wooden spars. I noticed two spots on the mast, just above the spreaders and below the running backstay attachments. But I was busy doing a 30' buyers survey before the broker arrived, I thought no more of the worn spots on the mast. Later, while negociating with the broker, I heard some tapping sound coming from aloft. The worn spots in the mast were being caused by two woodpeckers, who, from where I stood, were making a real mess of this otherwise sound spruce mast. The only good to come out of it was the broker agreeing to a significant reduction in price, due to the woodpeckers damage.

I wont be able to work on the boat till the beginning of April. In the meantime, the broker has promised to atleast try to keep the woodpeckers off the mast. If it is simply a matter of scarphing in some wood, which kind of adhesive would you use? Epoxy? Recorcinol? 3M 5200?

Also, worst case scenario, can you recommend a decent shipwright in SW Florida who could make me a new spruce mast? What do you think this might cost on average? The mast is keel stepped, and is likely 36' above deck, for a total of around 42'+/-.

ps. Do you know of any nice, 30footish, sound wooden yachts for sailing and living aboard in your area?

Quite a story. There are always 30ft wood boats of all sorts for sale around here but nothing like you find throughout Florida, although, because of the climate, those here might be in a bit better condition. If the damage to the mast is strictly Woodpecker pecking, the fix is basically just cosmetic, but if Rot has developed you may have to splice in a few new pieces. Epoxy glue is the best adhesive for this. The mast is probably 4 sided hollow, so the scarfing would most likely be on just one side. Scarfs should be at least 12 to 1--ie. 1in thick wood, 12inch scarf. I am not familiar with craftsman in your area but I suggest you tackle the job yourself. Good luck and feel free to ask more as needed..-------gary

Details	FAQ	Questions	Fix It Now	Prices & Order
e-mail	Home	Friends Links	Testimonials	About Us

A---F F---P Q