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BOATBUILDING 18

question: Hi Gary, I am at best a rough carpenter having framed out (under supervision 4 or 5 large homes). I have a lot of timber on my land and after looking at various boat building books was wondering if the following Dory type is possible and if so how would I keep it from leaking. Basically an "incense" cedar boat about 16 feet long on continuous 2x12 x 16 feet long. 3 cedar plans (36 inches) for the sides and the cedar beveled so the sides flair out a bit. Flat bottom and dory type bow and transom. I want to leave it open in the middle as much as possible to camp out in...its an open boat. I hope to be able to sail it, row it (standing up?) and motor it. Ok so basically a 16 foot boat or so out of continuous 2x12 16 foot planks and not much bending (if any) of planks...more beveling with a table saw. Great site..incredible info. Thanks! gw

Berry;

No reason why your idea can't work but I think you should get a tried
and true set of plans to work from. Here are some links to sites with
plans-----good luck-------gary

http://www.glen-l.com/

http://www.svensons.com/boats/

http://www.theboatshop.com/plans/weekendskiff.shtml

http://www.oldwharf.com/ow_building20lys.html

question: Sir; I need to know what book or any info. is there about putting copper metal sheets on the bottom of my wood sailboat? Also What material would you suggest for caulking the wood boat. Below as well as above the water line? And I am wanting to put a bow spirit on my boat for the purpose of stowing/securing the anchors out of the way and it would keep the anchors from damaging the boat in any way. I have seen many designs using wood as well as metal combination. "Also it looks real cool." I am not at all concerned about the weight on this issue. The functioning purpose is the main reason for it. "Please inform me of any books or other materials that I may purchase that would direct me in construction." Thank You John

John;

As far as books are concerned , go to http://www.woodenboat.com and check out the books they publish. As far as caulking I would recommend the traditional method of cotton with seam compound .With the copper check this web site out
http://www.copper.org/innovations/2003/Nov2003/Cu_hull_sheathing_gg.htm-------good luck with your project----gary

question: Gary -

I am thinking of a new approach for building my cedar plank flat bottom skiff. I asked you last week about a spline between the planks to help with it being in and out of the water. You suggested 1/8 inch spacing between planks to allow for swelling, and no caulking in the seams.

Now I am wondering if this is the best route. I took a piece of 1x8 planking and it has been soaking in water for 5 days. So far it has only swelled 1/64 inch. The material is very tight grain old grown red cedar. Probably 40 growth rings per inch. My thought now is to seal the entire boat thoroughly with penetrating epoxy and use 5200 between the planks. The boat will be out of the water more often than in the water. Before I change direction, I wanted to know if you thought it would be a mistake. It is not too late to go either way, but I need to make a decision and get on the with planking up the boat.

Your advice would be greatly appreciated.

Brian;

Good show running a test piece and I think your new approach makes sense but not if you are speaking of just using 5200 in the seams without the spline or some other solid seam caulk. My personal preference is to run the seams close with a slight bevel to the outside and run a strand of cotton twine down the middle of the seam and then use your 5200 over that. I would be careful with using penetrating epoxy for that may inhibit the very swelling you need. Of course, since you're dealing with a flat bottom, there is always the option of using plywood with fiberglass taped seams and avoiding all the swelling business and just using the cedar on the topsides---------g

Thanks again for your help - If I do as you recommend, do I really need

to worry that much about restricting swell of the wood with the

penetrating epoxy? Shouldn't it be all sealed up and more or less stable

if I seal it with the epoxy and 5200 + string the seams? If it does

swell some, I would think that the seams would remain sealed and the it

would just compress the 5200 and string a bit. If it doesn't swell at

all, wouldn't the seams still be as tight and when applied? I will

trust your judgment on this.

Sorry to be asking some many questions - There are obviously two schools

of thought in how to go about this. Some think epoxy is the answer to

everything and others like the traditional methods. I'm stuck in the

middle not knowing which way to go.

I don't want to go with plywood for the bottom - I have all of this

beautiful cedar planking and I'm trying to stay true to the 1930's

vintage boat I am using for a pattern. Problem is that I won't have it

in the water all that often.

Brian;

Well, I certainly confess to being a traditionalist especially when using traditional materials. Modern boat building methods utilizing epoxies and lightweight construction techniques work fine but trouble can begin when some of these methods creep over into traditional boat building. A good example of this is the caulking 5200 being used in the place of traditional seam compounds and bedding compounds. Understanding that wooden boats are built to be fixed and caulked seams will always need to be recaulked, materials such as 3m 5200, which is a tremendous sealant and super adhesive, can make taking pieces apart or recaulking seams impossible. The same in a traditional boat, whose very water tightness is dependent on the wood swelling, being treated with penetrating epoxy whose sole purpose is to seal the wood from water. When one places cotton or string in a seam, there sealing ability is dependent on the wood swelling around them, that is why it is important to place then in the center of the seam. Simply, if you use traditional building techniques use traditional materials, if you use modern materials use modern building materials or there is always do it the way you want and learn from what happens. Frustrating, I know-------gary

Words of wisdom. I suspect I will learn something important either way I

go. I'll let you know what I decide and what I learned from the decision.

Thanks for your help - You are a great resource!

Brian;

Thanks ------- have fun with it and send me a photo----g

question: Hi Gary, I just finished a 18' Banks Dory,I used treated spruce for the frames and planking I did not want to spend too much on the wood for the boat because I am thinking of building the 27'Saint Pierre dory and only built the 18'for some experiance,my question to you is,I have a large amount of yellow birch sawed for the frames and am thinking about kilm dried spruce for the planking, do you think this is a good choice of wood for the 27'dory.Thank you Gary P.S. I live in Cape Breton Nova Scotia Canada and the weather here is not too bad for this time of the year so when I finished the dory the Feb 23 2006 I launched her the next day in the alantic ocean,she is a little cranky but I think I am going to like her when the weather gets a little warmer here, Take care Art.

Art;

Good job, send some pics. Your wood choices seems OK but I would always prefer air dried to kiln dried. The moisture level on kiln dried is pretty low and encourages a lot of swelling when the wood is exposed to moisture--------g

question: Hi there. For the last year or so i have been browsing websites of those who build or have built their own boat. Being some what of a do it myselfer I would like to build my own. I have a design in mind already. Id like to build a 12' flat bottom boat for rowing or use with a small motor. I decided on a flat bottom because I believe it would be the easiest for me to build. My question lies with the bonding of the joints. Do I have to use fibre glass tape and glass it or could I simply use a product like Liquid Nails which claims to be water resistant? Also for a boat like such would I be ok to use 1/4" Mahogany ply for the sides? I was thinking of using 1/2" or 5/8" on the bottom but Im looking for ideas. Any help is appreciated, Derek.

Derek

Liquid nail doesn't hold up in a water environment and fiberglass tape not only keeps out the water but also adds a bit of strength. 1/4 in mahogany for the sides is fine as well as 1/2in for the bottom. The rub rails and chine stringers will stiffen her up. Some good designs at http://www.glenl.com/-----have fun and don't be scared, it's a step by step process---gary

Mr. Wheeler;
My name is Gary Pickering. I live in Florida, just north of Tampa. I am
looking for a boat building school. The specifics I am looking for is a
school where I can build my own boat ( a live aboard) and receive
instruction, and supervision, and at the end of the course, leave with
my own boat. My problem in my search of most schools, is that the boats
being built by most school are smaller than I wish, and they retain
ownership of the project when the course is over. I was hoping you could
help me in my search. Thanks for your time.
Gary Pickering

Gary:
Yes, what you seek would be ideal, but almost all boatbuilding schools rely partly on the money they get from the sale of the boats they build. You could seek out an independent boatbuilder you could pay to work with you or you could take a year or two at a boatbuilding school, learn the basics and then build your boat, or you could read a lot of books and choose a design less complicated to build. There is a boatbuilding school in Eastport Maine that possibly would consider your proposal. Go to www.macnaughtongroup.com and tell them what you want to do. They might be able to help. Good luck, you are on a noble pursuit----------gary

question: Hello Gary,

I am a recent college graduate interested in learning the trade of boatbuilding. I live in Rhode Island, and have worked on commercial fishing boats here. I have looked at boatbuilding schools, and would love to attend one, however my general lack of funds will probably prevent that (not to mention student loan debt). Are there any other avenues to learning the trade that you know of? i.e. that would be financially feasible for me? Thank you very much for your time,

Brian

Brian:
A most noble goal. There is a school here in Rockland Me, called the Apprenticeship, affiliated with the Atlantic Challenge USA Atlantic Challenge Homepage , which is quite reasonable, $1,500 a year. It's a 2 year program. Other than that your best option is to work at a boat building company, start at the bottom and work your way up. Right now there are a lot of such jobs here in Maine, maybe so where you live as well. I learned working in boatyards and just doing it. There is also a school in Eastport Me. macnaughtongroup.com home page yacht design marine publishing liveaboard catalo . Good luck Brian, there is nothing more satisfying or challenging than working on boats. Feel free to ask more questions----------------gary

question: Hello Gary -
Noticed you advised a wet dry roofing cement instead of 3M 5200
to caulk seams in old hull planks ( carvel or clinker I assume ).
Would this be the correct way to go on new hull construction, too ?
I'm interested in building a few river dories/driftboats with the
students in my high school woodshop courses. Have access to plenty
large amounts of softwood and quite a bit of hardwood. Am considering
lapstrake western red cedar planking over white oak frames or possibly
ash or fir. I have probably pulled thirty pages of material off the
internet concerning lapstrake planking but please advise if you have
new construction tips.

thanks for your help, Chuck

Chuck:
Nice project and a great learning experience for the kids. The tar trick is primarily to keep old boats, that have been high and dry for a long time, from sinking. For new boat construction use 5200 if you want a glue like joint but if you don't use regular seam compound for any seams and use regular dolphonite bedding compound between surfaces. Check out www.woodenboat.com and boatbuider.com. Have fun with your project and send me some photos-------gary

Gary -
Thanks for your reply, do have several more questions !
- I assume both the regular seam compound and the dolphonite bedding
compound are available thru marine sources only ......any equivalent home
construction grades to be found in a typical local hardware outlet ?
- what's your advice on glued joints ( with screws ) vs. just the bedding compound
and screws ?
For a pulling boat that will see some whitewater do the joints need to work and
flex a bit or stay rock hard rigid ?
Sure appreciate your wise input ......all this is going towards a scaled - down replica of
an original 30' logging bateau from the 1930's thru 1960's used out here in the pac-norwest
that looks suspiciously like some of the old dories l've been finding on the internet from the
east coast !
I have been given copies of the const. plans which spec half - inch marine ply
for the sides, but with the supply of good cedar and hackmatack/tamarack/larch from the mills
around here, I sure would like to try planking of some type. Am drawn to lapstrake because it
seems like a lot less finish sanding involved. I want to spend more time teaching the kids how
to set up and use the machine tools in our shop ( planers, jointers, shapers, et al ) than how to
sand with an orbital sander - which their already using at home anyway.
will send pictures if I can figure out how to load them
into my cmptr. chuck

Chuck;
Glad to help. Any decent house grade caulk will work OK, maybe won't last as long but it will work. Flexible versus glued joints depend on the type of construction and the material used. Plywood doesn't swell and shrink like solid wood so boats made of it can be glued and screwed. Solid wood built boats need to be flexible so the wood can swell and contract without loosing watertightness. Lapstrake construction has a lot of advantages but less sanding is not one of them. The planks are riveted at the lap so the structure is quite rigid without a lot of inner structure like frames and stringers. However it is more time consuming and difficult to build. First I would pick the design, build the strongback upon which the boat or boats will be built over. Then I would build the first one out of plywood, glued and screwed and the seams taped with fiberglass, use it and see how it performs. If you like it build the second using carvel plank on frame with traditional caulking. Now with the third I would be ready to tackle a lapstrake one.Hope this clarifies rather than confuses. Keep asking if you have more questions----------gay

Gary;
I haven't built a boat yet, but have worked with wood. The link below contains
a set of old "Science and Mechanics" magazine plans for a small "supposedly" ocean-worthy planked hull sloop. I have been reading about
new wood techniques such as Sheathed Strip, COLD-MOLDED or MULTI-DIAGONAL, and Stitch n Glue.
In light of the new technology would it be "ridiculous" to try and build the
planked boat described in the link below. Part of my attraction to these plans is nostalgic, but I have also truly hated my few brief encounters with
epoxy and fiberglass. I end up with fingers stuck together, tools permanently bonded to the concrete floor. On the other hand I enjoy working with full grained wood and wood glue.
If such a plan is still worth building, are any of these new techniques directly adaptable, and (in spite of my aversion) should they be utilized. I think that I have read that fiberglassing older plank hulls is a no-no, but would it be possible to epoxied cove and planking on a frame and plank hull versus the traditional cotton tamping and caulking. Also, could planks be epoxied to the frame rather than screwing or nailing them in place.
Here is the link for the plans in question: http://www.svensons.com/boats/Gypsy/
Any advice you can offer will be greatly appreciated and followed!
Dale Lynch
Austin, Texas

Dale;
Nice design and it looks like a good sailor. Plank on frame allows no variation in construction and is probably the most difficult for a novice. The construction technique results in a hull that is strong but at the same time flexible so it can move with the stress of sailing as well as the expansion and contraction of the solid wood. It is also easy to repair. You can't epoxy planks to frames or to each other because of the rigidity. You could strip plank using one inch locking glued strips edge nailed and eliminate most of the frames because this construction forms a solid hull not needing much of a skeleton for strength. This is an easier construction method than plank on frame but is a bitch to repair if needed. This particular design because of the hard chine is ideal for plywood construction, and this allows for cheaper, faster and easier construction especially for a first time builder. You wood only fiberglass the seams. You would have plenty of solid-wood shaping with the framing and deadwood and transom. Before you tackle such a project you might do well to build a pram dingy doing everything, including lofting, that would be necessary on the Gypsy. Feel free to ask more questions. You dream is a most worthy one, no reason in hell not to do it.--------gary

Here is another "vintage" plan I was considering, and it is already drafted
in plywood. I have recently lofted and cut out a internally framed, plywood, pre-Lazer sailboard with accuracy. I haven't assembled it because my cheap direct drive table saw stripped out while trying to rip the angled "and kerfed" pieces meant to join the sides with the deck and hull bottom.
My questions on this other "vintage" sloop design are:
1. Would you include the "filler chine" shown in "Star-Lite_04.jpg"
our could this be filled with bondo and fiberglassed over.
2. In regard to fiberglassing, would one merely fiberglass the outside
of the chine seam or both sides of the joint?
3. The plan calls for gluing together multiple layers of thin plywood
(2 3/8" plys or 3 1/4" plys) screwed and glued with resorcinal.
Could a thicker one-sheet ply be used? If not, would glue the
multiple plys with resorcinal, or would epoxy be better?
4. Should this plywood skin be completely staurated with epoxy as done with the stitch n glue boats?
5. If done correctly, would this boat (with its oak framing) be more sturdy
than the quicker stitch n glue boats with minimal framing?
I appreciate the generosity Gary, and promise not to bombard you with endless streams of questions!
Thanks,
Dale Lynch
Austin, Texas

Dale:
Questions are no problem. I'll answer in order;
1----- Yes, I suppose you could fill and fiberglass but that seems a lot more a pain in the but than a wood stringer.
2--- If you are fiberglassing for strength then do both sides with roving and matt but if you use mechanical fasteners and just fiberglass for watertightness then cloth just on the outside will do,
3-- Layering the plywood provides for overlapping joints and epoxy is better then resourcinol because it is more forgiving if there is less than perfect fits. Single thicker sheets can be used but they would have to be butted with large plywood butt blocks glued and screwed behind the joint.
4---- No, epoxy only penetrates very slightly into the first veneer of the ply, plus if moisture gets behind the epoxy you have perfect environment for rot. Painting is better. Only cover the whole surface if you are going to put fiberglass cloth over it.
5--- Yes

question: I would love to build a Haven 12 1/2-Footer. I'm a Midwest, fresh water trailer sailor and I doubt that carvel planking like the original is the right thing. What planking system could I use that will last under my conditions?

Regards,
Eric Larson

Eric;

Nice project and a beautiful boat. Yes, carvel planking is not the best when the boat is in and out of the water a great deal. I would recommend strip planking or lapstrake although strip is easier for the novice builder but lapstrake is prettier. Here's a site where you can get some information from those doing it Haven 12 1/2 Builders Site . Good luck and send pictures------gary

question: In one of your comments you suggested 3M 5200 might be used to advantage as luting between strips when building or repairing a cedar strip planked hull. Is that because there is some "give" in 3M 5200 and the hull can swell without cracking something? Is it a good compound to use between strips? I was planning on using a resorcinol glue because one source told me it has some minor gap filling qualities. I'm undecided.

A boat builder in New Oreleans told me a couple of years ago that the 3M 5200 was awful hard to clean up after using it to bulding some pirogues and plywoodboats but otherwise he loves it.

Jay Becker

Jay;

Yes I did suggest using 5200 when applying a spline to a an existing carvel planked seam because it is flexible but in strip construction you are actually forming a solid inflexible structure by gluing , epoxying, the strips together. You want no flexing here and a thick epoxy glue is what you want to use. And yes, 5200 is extremely messy and difficult to work with and its uses are just limited to forming a flexible bond that will never come apart which on a boat is not such a good thing because having pieces easily come apart is what makes a wood boat repairable. So, if you ever have a use for it, keep its limitations in mind.-----gary

question: I'm building a 21' ''Handy Billy,'' as shown in WoodenBoat Mag. Mine is presently framed and beveled, ready for planking. Would like to use three layers of 1/4" red cedar. First two layers double diagonal, sealed with epoxy. Third (outer) layer longitudinal red cedar (essentially strip planking). Then epoxied and fbrglassed outside only. Is that a useful technique? Handy Billy is hard-chine, v-bottom. I'll likely include a small cuddy cabin, rather than the open launch profile. Thanks.... Jim G.

Jim;

Nice choice in a boat to build. Actually the process you describe is called cold molding, strip planking is when approximately 1 inch square strips are stacked, often tongue and groove, glued and edge nailed. Normally these 2 building methods are used with soft chine boats and ones with multiple compound curves but not usually used with hard chine boats. These designs are carvel planked or done with plywood. For home building , plywood is the preferred method both for strength and ease of construction plus it is compatible with fiberglass. The cold molding method as compared to plywood, although also fiberglass compatible , is much more labor intensive and expensive, plus if you ever have to repair damage to the hull, it is hell. Please ask more as needed.

Good luck-------gary

question: Hi,

Iam building a sprey 28 steel , and i am wondering what is the best way to join sheets of ply together to form a bulkhead. I shall have to join and glue these sections of ply inside the boat as te cabin opening will not be large enough to allow a full width bulkhead . I will be using 19 mm ply , can i scarf join each section together, or is it better to lap , butt or otherwise.
on 19 mm ply what would you suggest for the size of the scarf , or other type of joint and what type of glue.
Regards

John

John;

Part of the issue with bulk head construction is how much structural support they need to provide for the hull. With a steel boat I doubt if they supply a great deal of structural support , so how you construct them may depend more on convenience than strength. If I was after strength I would epoxy glue two 9 mm sheets of ply staggering the joints by a couple of feet and have at least a one foot overlap at the joints. You can screw the 2 sheets together while the glue sets and either leave them in or remove them. If you are to use a single 19 mm sheet I would butt the joints with butterfly keys and fiberglass the joints with at least 6 in fiberglass tape on both sides. Scarfing ply is very difficult and the scarfing ratio should be 12 to 1 meaning for 19 mm ply you need about a 12 inch scarf.. Check the drawing for a visual-------hope this helps. Good luck, ask more if needed-----g

Hi ,

thanks for the information on bulkheads, this has helped a lot.
If you don't mind I have another inquiry (this time concerning fitting port
lights /windows to the steel cabin sides. The boat has been sand blasted an fully painted with epoxy paints.)
I have cut five openings each side of the cabin each 475mm by 225mm, these
are for the portholes.
I will be using smoked uv resistant laminated glass . the glass thickness
is 10mm thick.
I am going to use sixaflex to set the glass on to the side of the cabin.
The glass will be 25mm greater than the cabin cut-out to allow for enough sikaflex to ensure proper attachment(the sixaflex is all that will be
attaching the glass to the side of the cabin.
Do you think I have allowed enough in the 25mm overlap?, as the glass will
have a bit of weight at that thickness.
I shall be supporting each piece until the sixaflex has cured then removing
the temporary supports. Each piece of glass shall rely solely on the adhesion of the sikaflex .
Also could I go down in the glass thickness and still have adequate strength.
I have thought of using plexiglass and attaching in the same manner as above
but I am concerned about the ease of scratching and also the eventual discolouring over time from UV

Regards

JOHN

John;

If you are going to just rely on an adhesive to hold the glass to the hull, I would do a little research and find out what would be the best adhesive on glass and steel. I know 3m 5200 is a better adhesive than Sikaflex but there may be others as well. I would tend to want to secure the glass mechanically as well, possibly by through bolting a frame that clamps the glass plus it looks nice if done in mahogany or teak. When you are taking big breaking seas over your glass ports, you'll want all the security you can get. Also I would not scrimp on the glass thickness. As I think about it, I would be remiss not to emphasize the importance of sandwiching the glass port in a bolted on frame structure, if for no other reason, than to trust any adhesive to bond two such dissimilar materials as glass and steel is foolhardy, and your life could depend on it.------------g

question: Good afternoon, Sir -

I am building my very first small wooden sailboat, and have a question regarding boat measurements for cutting out the side and bottom of the boat from a few pieces of 4x8 sheets of plywood. The measurements are stated from the bottom, chine, and sheer, in stations marked 1 through 9. The problem is, the measurements don't seem to add up anywhere. My question is, how do I read the measurements? The boat design comes from John Gardner's "Building Classic Small Craft."

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Chris

Chris;

I'd have to see the plans you're working from to answer your
specific question but normally measurements at any station are taken from
either a center line or waterline which are level stright line references.
When one lofts the building lines these are the first lines set
down.-------g

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BUYING A WOOD BOAT 23

Hello,

I'm currently in the process of buying this classic wood yacht in Nashville Tn. I believe a lot of the hull work has been "liquid nail" patchwork and I plan to have the boat hauled out next spring to have the hull and structure completely refitted. The workmanship above-decks that has been done and the asking price make this hard to pass up. In your experience, how much would a hull refit cost? Worst case/best case scenario. Also, within the wood boat craftsman community in which you belong, do you know of anyone in the Nashville area that does this type of work. I've done tons of research and am finding it hard to find anyone. This boat deserves to be brought back to her original glory. With a little hard work and a lot of $$$ (and maybe the other way around, but I doubt it) hopefully I can get this done.

Thanks for your time and information in advance,

Andre

Andre;
Pacemakers are wonderful boats and very well made. I can not phantom too serious a problem with the bottom unless it has been sitting high and dry for a few years. But even then it could be brought back relatively cheaply. Worse case would be extensive rot in the planks, repairs for this running from 8 to $12,000. If planks are ok, they possibly need seam recaulking, anywhere from 3 to $5,000. Refastening of planks not likely needed for I'm pretty sure pacemaker used bronze fasteners. Check for topside plank end rot at transom and stem, these areas can get trapped fresh water creating a nurturing environment for rot spores.
Unfortunately I do not know anyone in your area doing wooden boat repair but I am sure they exist. I would advertise in the local paper and consider an ad in Wooden Boat Magazine. Also call the 2 places listed below and ask them if they know of an independent
boat carpenter in your area. If need be you could transport the boat to where you find someone. Also much of the work needed will not require a great deal of skill but a great deal of sweat and time which possibly you could provide. Good luck with your most noble project----gary

Tennessee
.
Ventnor Boat Works
Dick Thede
PO Box 476
Harrison, TN. 37341
423-442-1005
423-326-1600 fax
dickthede@earthlink.net
www.ventnorboatworks.com

Phil Mitchell Restorations
1316 Indian Shallows Dr
Ten Mile, TN, 37880
865-603-1418

Gary,

Thank you so much for the information. Regrettably in doing some local research on this boat at a local marina I've found that the history of this boat is sad indeed. Apparently it sat underwater for a couple years before being raised up and finished to its present state. Undeniable that the interior work put into this boat is astounding, I'm now told that the hull would be unrepairable. As it sits now the bilge pumps are in constant flow. My concern first and foremost is that it was to be a liveaboard until we could haul it out. I'm not so sure it (or we, for that matter) would survive that long. Moreover, even if it did, if it can't be fixed we're both sunk anyway. Its a true shame, but the wind has left my sails.

Thanks again,

Andre

Andre;
Sorry to hear that, although it is a bit suspicious that someone put so much work into the interior of a hopeless boat, The fact that it sunk does not mean the hull is junk, in fact the wood could benefit especially if it was sunk in salt water. I wouldn't give up the idea until she was hauled and had a good going over by a boat-wright. There literally is nothing that can't be fixed on a wooden boat, that's the whole idea.-----------gary

ps. take a couple bags of sawdust and dump them slowly in the water around the boat while swirling the water with a paddle to make the particles sink and WALLA, leaks stop.

question: I'm in a quandary. Someone at the marina is giving away an Owens "Aruba". He's in bad financial shape and he's left the yacht practically abandoned for months. There is a small leak around the propellor shaft lower seal. When the power company killed his power for nonpayment the bilge pump was shut off. She sank by the stern about two feet before the rack below water line in the slip caught her. We pumped her out and lined her over to shallow water (<3')where she is slowly sitting down in the soft, flat bottom. My question is...Am I nuts to try and take this on and take the boat and try to save her? From the lite inspection I've been able to give her, she seems sound. All the neighbors at the marina said she was a beauty when he brought her in. In your opinion, what would be a deal breaker? I hate to see her just sit and rot away. Thanks JBF

Jim;

From a Google search I see they are worth around $15,000 in decent shape.
From what you say I see no horrible red flags but if the engines were
damaged, the cost factor comes into play. With these type wooden powerboats
you must check for rot especially around the transom corners, the stem and
the connection between the cabin house and deck. The leak sounds like the
stuffing box or the shaft log, neither a big deal to fix. So it's totally a
personal choice of having the time and money to bring her back. Once you
take her you are the steward of a bit of history so the onus is on you to do
right by her.--------gary

question: Hi Gary,

Great site. Your love of wooden boats is evident, and excellent.

Looking at a 1960 Sparkman&Stephens. It's been in fresh water for 25-30 years. Lots of rot in mahogany planking above waterline. Canvas over plywood deck is shot.

Don't know condition of teak planking below waterline. Boat has great historical value.

Also, I have an uncle to help in restoration, who is a very skillful woodworker/boatbuilder. "Wood is the only way to go", he says. But he hasn't, yet, seen this boat.

It is, currently, floating. I can pick it up for $2500.00.

Any suggestions?

Thanks, Scott , Seattle

Scott;

Quality builder equals quality boat. All wood boats are restorable
just depends on ones time and money and skill set. I would check the
structural members, ribs, floor timbers, deck beams etc, to see how
extensive the problems are, but in general the only rule is if you take it
on you are the steward of its future and there is a wooden boat hell for
those who take on rebuild projects and don't finish them. Seriously, the
only question would be your level of commitment .Try to get the price
down----Be glad to help with advice once you start the restoration------gary

ps--you must love the process as much as the outcome.

Gary,

Get the boat reduced, in price, from 25 hundred? I'll give it a shot.

So, how long can a guy leave this boat out of the water, while restoring, without getting into too much trouble?

Would best-case be, to make below-the-waterline sound, asap; then; finish in a marina?

Thanks, Scott

Yes, that's best case, but in reality doing in the water work takes twice as long. How the boat will respond over an extended period out of the water depends on a lot of factors but the worst case scenario where the bottom planks seams open up can be dealt with by simply filling those seams with some roof patch tar which will be squeezed out as the planks swell when the boat is launched. She would be swelled tight within a week. To do this kind of rebuild you need a dry space and a committed amount of time-----------g

I found your page looking for information on East German folkboats.
As you doubtless know the Folkboat buffs sneer at these as they are
strip-planked and have a habitable cabin, you wouldn't think twice
about it if you hadn't already seen a clinker Nordic one with the low
coachroof!!

I think the ballast keel is just bolted on as normal, it is on very
other Folkboat I've seen!! I'd be more surprised if it's got a
complete set of frames!! I've just walked away from a lovely teak
one, built by Clare Lallow in Cowes, almost every frame broken!!
Worse, he's let the boat stand in the yard for 2 years under a dark
blue plastic cover, it's so dry it could self-combust!! As a result
the splined seams on the sunny side have broken the glue line and you
can see daylight through them!!
I'm going to buy an East German one, they are very well made, albeit
strip planked with questionable glue and brass screws, but it's
lasted 50 years already and the hull is as fair as you'd like!! They
aren't worth much, but then no Folkboat is except a GRP racing Nordic
one!!
You had another letter from a guy in Cornwall who thought he had a
7/8 version of a Folkboat with a 3 piece mast? He's probably got a
Spartan, Alan Buchanan design just as he described, a 23' Folkboat!!
Personally if he wants to go sailing I'd buy a new alloy masthead
rig with slab reefing boom, wouldn't be expensive and you wouldn't be
waiting for the mast to come crashing down every time it blew a bit!!
And you'd be sailing that much sooner!!
Good site, useful information although I do worry about the questions
people ask, I just hope they don't get on too well , finish the boat
and go to sea, they seem to have a frightening lack of knowledge
about boats in general and wooden boats in particular!!
Keep up the good work!

David Scott

Dave;

Thanks for the cudos and as you read the folkboat is one of my
favorites and there were many on SanFransisco Bay where I sailed for many
years.Strip planked boats are a bitch to repair but make a very strong hull
and they can be fiberglassed over to add years more of use. Send me a photo
when you get yours--------g

question: hi gary i was thinking of buying a 1966 trojan f32 wood boat the boat is solid but needs refinishing price 9000$ cdn my plan is to keep her for many years i have 1000 question on how to do it but my first question is the boat being 40 yrs is there much life left in her i heard wood boat will wear out 30 -40 yrs hope to hear from you Derek

Derek;

Wood boats can last a very long time if taken care of. There's a couple
schooners is our harbor that are well over 100yrs old albeit a good
percentage of their timber has been replaced but that is the advantage of a
wood boat, they are built to be fixed. Being a novice however, you should
have a survey done on the boat so you know what you may be infor over time.
One piece of advice, to own a wooden boat you must either have a pocket
full of money or like working on the boat as much as using it.--------gary

question: Hi Gary

This is going to sound kind of odd, but here goes.

I am looking at purchasing a wooden hull boat in the 40 - 50 foot range. I have my eye on a couple at the moment. Whatever I get will be a project boat and I anticipate 5 years or more before she sees the water. I am looking at wood hulls simply because of purchase price. A comparable glass hull is significantly more expensive. I do not however want a wooden hull. This will be a live aboard and cruiser and I do not want the maintenance involved in maintaining a wooden hull. Additionally, I want maximum resale value.

So, here is my question. Have you ever heard of anyone completely stripping off a wood hull right down to the frames - stringers and constructing a new hull of fibreglass. My thinking is that I would strip the interior down, pull the engines, and cradle her upside down. Then pull the planking and transom. I would then "sister" the existing wooden frames with foam coring - leaving a small space between the wood and foam core - extending the foam beyond the wood frames to compensate for the thickness of the removed planking. I would then glass the foam frames. Next, I would run lathe strips the length of the hull (attached to glass frames) to provide support for the hull coring. I would core it (1/2" probably), glass and finish the exterior, set her upright and glass and finish the interior. The old wooden framing and stringers would then be removed leaving me with glass and foamcore hull and structure.

I have the location and time to do this, and estimate my costs at around $30,000. I would bring in a naval architect prior to starting to have him identify any necessary structural changes and confirm the materials that I plan to use.

I know this will be a hell of a lot of work. But when I crunch the numbers, it seems to make a lot of sense. A brand new 40 - 50 foot glass hull for under $45,000 based on the purchase price of some of the boats I am looking at. I can't find anything like that on the market right now.

Am I a complete lunatic, or is this feasable.

Thanks, Mike

Mike;

Yes, you are a lunatic but great deeds are not accomplished by the normal. Here , in Maine, many old wooden lobster boats have been glassed over and are given a new life. To do this successfully they must build up a glass hull over the wooden one, basically using the original hull as a plug, but in this case they leave the plug intact. You could do the same with a wood hull without doing all the extra work of removing the wood structure after it is glassed. Although this method elongates the boats life it does not necessarily increase its resale value by much. If I were you I would look for a salvage hull the size you want and fix it. With all the hurricane damage from last year there are all kinds of salvage boats for sale, boats the insurance companies have written off as unfixable. You can do a lot of fixin for $30,000. Check out this site http://www.yachtsalvage.com/list.htm-----good luck and keep me up to date on living out your "crazy" dream------gary

question: I am considering purchasing a wooden boat currently located on the coast in the northeast. She is 65' LOA with a whopping 23' beam. She's constructed of 2" solid mahogany, single planked. Her owner has taken meticulous care of her and is selling her due to health reasons. If I purchase this vessel, I will be moving her to the warm Caribbean waters of the Virgin Islands, and have a couple of questions: (1) What is the best defense against worms; is there any particular anti-fouling paint that is better than another? or is there some other method I should use? and (2) I'm told she's a railway haulout vessel. I'm not completely sure whether that's because she's so heavy (50 tons) and wooden, or whether it's due to her beam. Suppose I find a travel lift that can accommodate her beam - what happens if she's lifted in slings rather than on a railway? The worm issue - I really need to get a handle on that; the haulout issue - really just a curiosity thing. Thank!
s. Ang

Interesting boat. The ultimate worm protection for a wood boat is copper sheathing the entire bottom. Although it is costly, it lasts a long time and guarantees protection. As far as paint is concerned, the one with the highest copper content works the best and diligence on the owners part that any exposed surface from scrapes or scratches especially along the waterline are quickly painted over and in a tropical climate the bottom should be repainted at least twice a year. When you add up this cost over a few years, copper sheathing could be a deal. There are huge travelifts out there, especially in Floridad, and when lifting a larger vessel they usually use 4 straps instead of 2 to spread out the load-----gary.

question: I am dreaming about buying an older wooden boat, like a Matthews in the 40ft range from the 1950 to 1960's, but I have no concept about the approximate yearly maintence on such a boat. My wife and I have an excellent income but are not independently wealthy. I would be willing to send some significant money to have such a beautiful craft, but I would just like to know how big of a finacial whole a may be digging? I have some wood working skill but because I am busy at work I would want to estimate professional maintence before I got involved.

Other than a survey or three, what else would I have to be careful of prior to purchase? Thank you, Tod A. Brown, M.D.

Tod;

I appreciate your desire, a Mathews is a good choice, and if you have the money for the initial purchase you are in good shape. The important part is to start with a wood boat in excellent condition, determined by a surveyor. Wooden boats aren't exceptionally expensive to maintain if you keep up with it but a year or two of abuse and catching back up is very costly. As a wooden boat owner you must enjoy working on the boat as much as using it or have the financial resources to hire professionals.The actual cost depends on particulars like how much bright work there is to keep up. Also as an owner of a traditional wooden vessel you have a unique obligation as a steward to pass on that vessel in as good or better condition than when received. I am sure there is a special place in hell for those who let a wooden boat in their care deteriorate beyond hope. Good luck with your search and feel free to ask more as needed--------gary

question: Dear Sir,

I am thinking of buying a 53 ft. Pacemaker Motor Yacht (1965). It needs complete wood restoration to make it sea worthy. There is a large hole in one side and you can see through the planks when on deck. Can you offer me any assistance on to whom to contact to assist me with this project?

Lee Ashley----Long Island, NY

LEE.

Unless you have a bunch of money burning a hole in your pocket, I suggest looking for a boat in better condition. If you choose to persist get a good wooden boat surveyor to have a look at it.--------gary

Hi Gary,
I am new to the wood sailboat scene so I apologize for my ignorance. A
swing keel 1939 36ft wood sailboat sloop is the what I have been
thinking and preoccupied about. The designer is Frederick Geiger, and
builder was Morris Johnson of Bay Head N.J. The boat has a diesel Water
Mota Sea Panther engine.
At this point I am asking is what are the critical elements I need to
look at in inspecting this boat.

General outside inspection:

1. The wood above the waterline appears fine. There appears to be some
rust mark. It needs repainting.
2. The mast looks solid (made of wood I don't know what type) and tall
with rigging in place (goose neck, forward and aft stringers?, runner,
side rigs, spreaders).
3. I walked on the deck and it appears solid. Some areas have cracks. I
am not sure if the floor was covered with fiberglass?
4. The original port holes look fine. There are areas where paint is
peeling. But floor does not seem to flex.
5. The hatch rim s look fine, some loss of varnish.
6. The stanchion feel solid, the bow pulpit moves a bit.

Cockpit

1. I looked below the cockpit into the back transom, it looks dry and
wood appears clean and solid.
2. The engine looks dirty, greasy and rusty at some parts. The mounts
and wood area around looks solid.
3. The area around where the shaft goes out of the boat looks old. No
water is dripping down. Looks that shaft has not been rotated for
awhile.

Inside

1. The inside definitely needs work. The cabinets were moved around, and
some trims were taken out.
2. The floor planking was removed.
3. I am trying to examine the lower hull for structural integrity. There
is some water but it appears to be coming from the outside going inside
and down the mast and crack above.
4. There are spars? going from each side to the center. There is a
center keel that appears to be darker wood than the other?
5. Some big fat bolts and nuts around this beam or through it?
6. The bilge section toward the back underneath the engine looks fine
with some water.
7. The mast goes down to the hull. It appears solid.
8. The forward section V berth looks dry and fine.
9. The toilet has a pump.
10 I tried examining the water intakes and the valves. I did not try to
turn them incase water started coming in and I couldn't stop it
afterwards.
11. Side of the wall appear dry and solid.
12. I am not sure how the swing keel works. But there is a center table.
The leaves fall side words. A cable from above deck comes down a brass
tube?

Engine

1. The engine has been sitting around for 3 years. The marina said it
was winterized.
2. There appeared to be some water in the oil?
3. The starter is dead so they are trying to get another.
I'll have to see if they can get it to start.
The boat was lifted up last year for cleaning and the marina people said
the hull was fine, and paint was also fine.
Anyway please comment freely about what I have said, especially about
critical wood areas of the boat. I am concerned for instance about the
back section where the shaft comes in. I am afraid the wood might pop
out and water comes in?
If you can answer before Friday would be great since I have to make a
decision by then.
Thanks.
J.B

JB
Certainly sounds like an interesting boat. I would guess it has a centerboard rather than a swing keel for they are rarely found on wooden boats. My best advice is to get a surveyor to check the boat out or at least pay a local boat carpenter to go over the boat. You say you are a wooden boat novice but you have done a commendable inspection of the boat. From what you report, the boat sounds fine and depending on the price may be a good deal. If you can't do what I suggest above, you should acquire a small wood mallet and tap on any areas of the boat that look suspicious. If the wood is sound you will here a high pitched sound, if there is a problem such as rot or delaminated plywood you will here a non resonating thud. Remember fresh water causes rot not salt water so the bottom of the boat is probably sound. You should also be aware that buying a wooden boat changes your life forever. You will fall in love but wood boats are demanding partners and you must enjoy working on them as much as sailing them. Got to www.google.com and type in Geiger sloop. Good luck and I will be glad to answer any specific questions.----------------gary
Ps. On the inside keelson the big fat bolts are probably keel boats, tap them with a metal hammer and hopefully they will ring rather than thud.

Gary,
Thanks so much for your lightning reply (much appreciated!).
With your experience. What price for this boat is Not a good deal (being
conservative and assuming worst case scenario)? Above $10k?, or $5k?
Is $3k a good deal?
Thanks!
JB

JB
If you can buy a sound professionally built 36ft wood sailboat less than 50 yrs old for under 10 thousand you have a good deal even if it needs some work. Over 10 you would have to consider how much more you would have to spend to make it A-1.
Of course a lot has to do with what you plan to do with the boat, there is a big difference in demand on the boat between a little coastal cruising versus deep water extensive cruising. But for $10,000 or under you can make a mistake and probably recoup your money. If you can get it for 3,000 it's worth it even if you would use it as a front yard decoration.----------------gary

question: Hey Gary,

I'm considering purchasing an 1965 H-28 with glass over strip planked cedar. The deck and hull have been glassed over. There is some soft spots on the deck. How does one go about fixing it with the glass over wood? Can you remove glass from wood entirely? Also, can you recommend a boat carpenter for the east coast of Florida?

Thanks so much for your time,
Amy

AMY;
I am jealous, I've been looking for an H-28 myself. Glass over strip planking is pretty standard and usually causes little problem but glass over wood decks can be a real pain in the butt. When fresh water sneaks between the wood and glass you get rot which manifests itself as soft spots in the deck. The only way to fix such problems is to determine the extent of the rot and cut it out and replace with new wood. To remove glass from good wood you must grind it off, a horrible job and not necessary if there is a good bond. I am not knowledgeable about boat carpenters in the Florida area but I do know you have to be careful who you hire. Hang out at a local boatyard and see who others have used and are pleased with. I hope you get the boat, it is one of Herrshoffs best designs, a true big little boat. Hope this helped, feel free to ask more------gary

question: Greetings,
I recently beat up my keel on some rocks. Upon inspection I found that the bow of the boat, if not all of the boat, is filled with foam and it is wet all the way up to the floorboards. The fiberglass repair is easy enough, but I believe I need to remove the foam to avoid rotting. Do I need to fill the boat up with new foam when I'm done? What is the purpose of foam in the bottom? What do you recommend if I must replace the foam? Also, we'll have to cut out the floor to get to the foam - any recommendations on waterproofing it once we put new wood down?

Hi
I am not sure exactly what wood you are replacing, if it is part of the hull it should be sealed with penetrating epoxy and fiberglassed in place. The foam is mainly a space filler and provides some minimal support. You can get water proof blue board foam at your local home building supplier or you can get a 2 part expanding foam which is tricky to use. Basically the name of the game is to keep the fresh water out so rot does not get into the wood. Ask more as needed------ be as specific as possible------good luck-----gary

Greetings Gary,
Thanks for much for your speedy reply. I have a keel with two angular
breeches caused by a rock. It's a 1971 SeaSwirl boat that's in good
condition otherwise. When I drilled through the floorboards above the hole
in the keel I found a good solid fiberglass floor with plywood underneath
and then wet foam. The wood was totally soaked. I figure the entire boat,
if not separated by stringers, is likely soaked. So, I'm thinking I need to
cut out floorboard completely, pull all the foam, grind down the edges, make
sure the stringers are ok and rebuild if not, patch the keel with fiberglass
from the inside as well as the outside, fill it with foam, treat new plywood
with acetone and resin and reseat and glass it over, install the carpet and
do touch up paint and I'm done...Does that sound like what I need to do for
such a job? If I don't pull it all out I'm concerned that it will rot.
What's tricky about the 2 part foam - can't you just cut away what you don't
need if it comes up too much?
Please tell me more about the epoxy as well. Right now I have fiberglass
materials with a resin mix and catalyst but don't know anything about the
expoxy.
Thank You!
Ken

Ken:
Your procedure sounds right on. The resin you have is probably polyester which is fine and is no doubt what was used throughout the boat. Epoxy is much more expensive.The penetraring epoxy [ see www.rotdoctor.com]I refer to is very thin and saturates solid wood much more than polyester but is also compatable with polyester so you can coat the wood with penetrating epoxy, let it dry, then glass over it with polyester. If all you are using is plywood , the penetrating epoxy is not necessary, neither is the acetone which is mainly used on oily woods before glassing. The 2 part foam is fine unless you are putting it in a confined space where its excess expansion would cause a problem. Make sure it is a closed cell foam so it won't absorb water Plus, find out where the water came from in the first place-------------gary

question: Mr. Wheeler,

I am a woodworker, but have no experience with wooden boats.
I hope to retire soon to Florida and have been told about a circa 1967 lapstrake, mahogany hull 34'cruiser made by Ulrichsen.
It is being used as liveaboard in a slip.
I am told by it's owner the hull is sound but has some broken ribs due to yearly dry storage and needs work around the port garboard area to seal up a leak before embarking on a cruise.
Rather than buying a home, I thought this could be an inexpensive way to get start out. The price of the boat seems very, very low. Slip rent is $325.00 per month.

Could I be getting in over my head?
Thank for any advice,

Mike
.

Mike;

Sounds like you are in for some changes, good ones. The first thing to find out is when the boat was last hauled and had new bottom paint. A wood boat especially in Florida must be protected from the wood eating toredo worms which means good antifouling paint applied yearly. If it hasn't been painted recently you must haul it and check the bottom for worm damage. Also, equally important is that the underwater sacrificial zincs have been kept in good shape for they protect the fastenings below the waterline from electrolysis. If it has been regularly painted and zincs maintained any structural problems you will have no problem learning how to fix. Florida's climate is hell on wood boats, heat and moisture, rots friends. You must have good air circulation to keep the rot spores from developing.--- Hope this helps and I hope you get the boat and star enjoying life on the water. Feel free to ask more-----g

question: hallo gary.

i am an young guy trafelling in south-america,and i found a 45 feet

philip rhodes sloop for an preety good price,but there is a lot to work on her.as it is my dream since years to own my own sailboat,

i realy think about buying her.so i have a bit an idea of wooden boats

but actually i don´t know nothing about double planked hulls

(honduras mahagony,silicon brass screwd)

so my question is what i specialy have to look for at inspecting an double planked hulland where the rot starts in there,another question is as she is moored in south-america since some years with an prety old paintjob underneath,

what is the easyest and best way to find out whether she got worms?

thanks a lot.andreas

Andreas:

Sounds like an interesting boat but if it needs considerable work beyond cosmetics you must decide how much time and $ your willing to put in. First you need someone who knows wooden boats to look at her, preferably out of the water, and give you an overall analysis of her condition. I can't tell you how to do this but I will say the best way to expose wood rot and worm damage is to tap the suspect area with a hammer and if you get a solid sound good enough, but if you get a hollow or dead thud sound you have a problem. Toredo worms usually bore small holes in the planks or dead wood and eat out the inner core without ever returning to the surface of the wood, that's why sounding is the only way to tell if there is damage. Good luck but remember the definition of a boat can be " a hole in the water into which you throw money"---gary

question: How can I check for ship worm in a wooden hull the boat is in the water unforunately in the Med. and i dont know if there are any facilities for lifting out of water. The owner say's hull is in good condition but I would like to check somehow.

Regards Dougie

Dougie;

Usually there is little external indication that Toredo worms have entered the hull for often the entry point is pinhole in size. Once entering the wood the worm travels with the grain eating out a sizable tunnel and growing all the time which can virtually hollow out the timber with no indication of this on the woods surface. The only way I know of testing for worm damage is to sound the hull with a hammer listening for the hollow sound given off by the damaged wood. Unfortunately this sounding must be done with the outside of the hull exposed which means either hauling the vessel or careening it at a low tide, a problem in the Med where tides are slight. Personally I would not purchase a wood hull that has been in worm inhabited water without thoroughly inspecting the hull. Good luck-----------gary

question: Hello Gary,
We are looking into buying a wood boat. We are new to wooden boats and are unsure of the maintenance. Everyone always says that there is so much more on wooden than anyother type. Please educate us on a good maintenance schedule. The boat has been replanked but not yet caulked or painted. Once these are done what would be required to keep it in good condition? We appreciate such a great resource for information on wooden boats. Thanks, John & Sarah Hale
.
.

Sarah & John;

Actually, a wooden boat in good condition doesn't require a
lot more maintenance than other types. Besides hull topside painting
every few years and depending on the amount of bright work to be
varnished, the cost and time involved is pretty similar. The difference
arises when maintenance is not kept up. A fiberglass boat can sit for
years uncovered exposed to the weather and basically not suffer any
real damage. A wood boat, however, will deteriorate very quickly if the
wood is left unprotected and exposed to fresh water which harbors the
rot spores. So, in owning a wood boat you make a commitment to keep it
maintained and if you can't, sell it before deterioration sets in. The
little extra work involved is well worth it, the feel of a wood boat in
the water is so incredibly superior to other materials that the
attention required merely adds to the pleasure. It is important that
you enjoy the maintenance work or have the funds to pay others to do
it for, if not, it is only a matter of time before the maintenance
slides and great effort and money will be required to bring the boat
back to pristine condition. One great quality of wooden boats is that
they are made to be fixed because it is understood that wood has a
certain lifespan and overtime much of the wood on a old wood boat will
have been replaced. Also, finally, you should know, there is a wooden
boat hell for those that let their vessels deteriorate to the point of
no return. If you decide to take the wooden boat plunge feel free to
ask as many questions as you need, there is much to learn, although
there is one simple dictum and truth----maintain and repair a wooden
boat using the same materials and traditional methods that were used to
build it in the first place------gary
.
.
Gary,

We are very grateful and impressed with the super fast and wonderful advice.
Thank you! Your web site deserves special honors. It is very informative and
will serve as a major reference for us. We appreciate your words of
encouragement. We were feeling like this boat was right for us but then came
all the warnings and scary stories. We forget if we mentioned the boat we
are looking into. It is a 75' Herreschoff. We are flying out in a week to
check it out. It has been replanked but needs to be caulked and painted. We
are very adventures, hard working and above average intelligence. Our desire
is to do the work ourselves. One to save money and two for the experience
and knowledge. In your opinion, should a job this big be attempted by
inexperienced people? Is it something that can be completely fouled up
easily? What would be the best book to start with in preparing for such a
project. Have you written a book? If so what is the name of it.

Again, We are grateful for you advice and will most assuredly be back in
touch with you for more of your expertise and advice.

Ever so grateful,
John & Sarah Hale
.

Sarah;

Thanks for the compliments on the site, no book so far. Your
potential future boat sounds great, what model Herreschoff is it? One
of the most important tasks in a rebuild of carvel planked wooden boat
is the seam caulking with cotton and or oakum. This should be done by
an experienced caulker for if it is done too loose the boat works too
much and leaks, too tight and the planks will buckle because they can't
swell. If you can't afford a pro to do it all, at least hire one to
teach you what and what not to do. Also, since it sounds like wooden
boats are new to you, find an experienced hand to look over the boat
with you to verify its condition. I don't know your intentions with
such a boat, but a 75 footer with 2 people is a bit much to handle,
even a Herreschoff. Where is it located? Let me know how it
goes.------gary
.

question: Gary,
I'm considering the purchase of a 1970 42' Pacemaker Sport Fisher. She's been out of the water now for approx. 1+ year. I'm planning on totally re-caulking the bottom and repainting the bottom. After what I've read in your replies, I will leave the cotton alone. I have several questions: I'm pretty careful about what I do so, how long should she take on water after I launch her, and how much should she leak. I'm a little nervous about launching her, cliombing onboard, looking in the bilge and screaming "oh, my God get her back out quick". As a side note this is quite an adventure I'm undertaking I live in Achorage Alaska and the boat is on the East coast. So, I will work on her all winter 'til spring, cruise her down through the Panama Canal up the West coast, through the Inside Passage , across the Gulf Of alaska, and finally home to Seward. She'll work as a salmon charter boat from there. Lots of work but, lots of fun, too...great site great knowledge - Thanks J.P.
.

Thanks for the compliment on the site. Pacemaker's are good boats and
even one out of the water for 14 years should be OK if it was properly
supported and protected from fresh water. Assuming this is the case,
your recaulk plan is correct although I would find a way to swell the
planks a bit before you apply new seam compound. Stapling cloths or
foam to the bottom and keeping it damp for a couple weeks would help
immensely. Also, although I think your trip plans are noble and
adventurous, the practical aspects of fuel costs and wear and tear on
the boat may outweigh these and lead you more to the practical
alternative of using the travel money to have the boat trucked or
shipped by ship to your home and work on it there, or look for a
similar vessel closer to home. But sometimes Dreams are more important
than practical sense. To your point, when you launch the boat have a
good 110 submersible pump available for backup, also have a bag of
sawdust which can be dumped into the water and swirled about with
paddle so it sinks and temporarily clogs the leaky seams and the leaks
should halve themselves every 24 hrs and completely stop in 5-7 days.
Leaks beyond that time would have to be attended to. Good
luck-------gary
.
question: Gary,
Well, I'm back again with more questions. I had the 1970 42' Pacemaker
Sportfisher looked at by a marine surveyor. His report goes like this: there are some cracked planks, the transom has some rot and probably needs some planks replaced, the skeg has partially pulled away from the keel (he said he'd never seen that before), she has leaked diesel into the hold and right out the bottom onto the ground, (so you can tell the dryness of the hull), he also said the boatyard where she is stored had to move the braces due to them starting to "crush". Is this boat a loss or, if I can get it cheap enough could it be fixed in say 6 mos. of labor? I know this is a hard guess on your part. Thanks again for your time and knowledge... J.P.
.
.
J.P.

The bottom line is that a wooden boat is built so it can be fixed,
whether to take on such a project depends on ones skill ,
ones wallet and ones passion for a particular boat. This boat has
problems but certainly sounds fixable in a reasonable amount of time.
Many of the problems are do to shrinkage from the boat drying out.
Cracks in planks caused by shrinkage usually crack along the grain and
will swell closed when wetted out. This applies to the separated skeg
as well. The problem from the boat stands usually will correct itself
once the boat is back in the water unless the keel itself has been
badly bent or broken. Most older power boats have spot rot around the
transom because fresh water finds its way from the deck behind the
transom planks and into the corners where the framing is and causes
rot. All very fixable. The real expensive problem areas can lie in the
shaft logs , engine beds, tanks and engines but fortunately, from what
you said, your surveyor found no problems there. Doing the work needed
will take a commitment of time and money but it is important not to
begin unless you can finish, boatyards are full of half finished
projects started with dreams and good intentions but failed because
"shit happens". Hope this helps but I know better than most that when
it comes to buying an older wooden boat, practicality and common sense
often go by the wayside. Let me know how it plays out----gary
.

question: gary, I am a first time sailboat buyer, and carpenter. I have looked at a Blanchard 33 sloop. Ten were built in the '40's. Stem and ribs are oak, keel and deadwood fir, planking red cedar with plywood decks. The fastenings are Everdur, whatever that is. This boat seems largely original. The motor, a volvo D2 is out of her. She's in the water here in the Pacific Northwest. Here's my amatuer survey. Mast totally rebuilt in the last five years. Hull watertight (in the slip). Some rust spots from planking fasteners above the waterline. The original plywood deck had 3/8 ply attached over it, then the whole deck and coachroof was epoxied and painted. The sails come with it, they sound intact but tired. The head is a rebuilt raritan, there is a diesel stove the owner said was of quality, but I can't remember the brand. No electronics. There is no obvious damage or leaking anywhere, the current owner has her hauled and painted every four years, and she is due now for this work. The cockpit is huge, and hence not as much room below as one would expect from 33'. The price is around 5k. I can feel the draw of a wood boat, it's sucking me in. It sounds like a deal. If it passed a professional survey, what do you think? Ed
.

Ed;
Even just with your own "unprofessional survey" the boat sounds
worth the money, although you might look closer at the deck and check
more thoroughly what the 3/8 ply is covering over. But since it is your
first wood boat and you have carpentry skills and all wooden boats are
made to fix, you're in a pretty good place to have such a first boat.
Actually if one of your goals is to learn wooden boat restoration, this
one may be too good. Probably the most important deciding factor should
be whether or not the design fits what you want to do with the boat.
If it's for day sailing and short cruises, fine enough, but if you want
it for longer trips and off shore work , look elsewhere, a big cockpit
is great for inshore sailing with friends, but is an accident waiting
to happen off shore. Good luck, owning a wooden boat and being a good
steward to it, is one of life's true joys. Ask more as needed----gary

question: Gary, I really appreciate your prompt and informative response regarding the Blanchard 33 I'm looking at. I went back and had another look over the boat. I noticed some water on one of the bunks and concluded that it must have come from a crack in the epoxy now covering the ply deck. What repair would this entail? The lower layer of ply decking is totally exposed in the cabin and I could find no rot. Also, is there any way to determine the shape of the plank fasteners without pulling one? Maybe I'm looking for something that would indicate their condition. I don't think the owner would like me pulling one. Would a surveyor be able to determine this? I've enclosed a drawing of the Blanchard 33. My assessment of the cockpit being huge was just a novice speculating. If you could take a look and see if she would be, by design, fit for offshore sailing. Thanks again for being so generous with your knowledge, if it weren't for this site I would be feeling alon!

g in the dark. Ed -whoops, the drawing didn't paste. maybe these specs could tell you something.

Classic Day Sails

As far as we know, nine hulls were built on the Blanchard 33 mold. A tenth may have been produced as a yawl. Currently five of these lovely sloops are known to exist today. The whereabouts of one is unknown. The other three are Vagabond, Seawind and Varuna. Two have reportedly been sailed to Hawaii. And one of these was reported as a derelict in a yard in Hilo. The last one, hull number five, is perhaps best known for her travels up and down Puget Sound under the meticulous ownership, and steady hand, of her owner Ward Fay.

Aura was first owned by a well off family who hailed from Arizona. They decided they wanted to go yachting and made arrangements with Norm Blanchard for one of the 33 foot sloops which they named Aira. They owned her for five years, sailing her in the summer, and returning her to Norm Blanchard during the 'off season.' This family then sold Aira to Norm Blanchard (who mortgaged his house for her) with the stipulation that he change her name, which he did. Now named the Aura she was owned and enjoyed by Norm from 1952 to 1977. He then reluctantly sold her.

In the intervening years she has had a series of good owners who have kept her in great condition. She has had new floors, frames and planking around the mast step. She has also had minor changes to her cockpit, with fuel tanks located below her main cabin settees.

Waterline length
24'
Length on deck
33' 3"
Length overall
36'
Beam
8' 9"
Draft
5'
Ballast 4,150 lbs
Displacement 10,300 lbs
Working sail area 500 square feet
Engine Fresh-water cooled Atomic 4 (gas)
'Yachting' Magazine, April 1949

The Blanchard 33, from the Blanchard Boat Co., from designs by William Garden is a new stock one-design auxiliary cruising sloop, the first few of which have proved to be smart and able cruising boats. Requirements were quarters for four, with six feet of headroom, enclosed toilet, coal range in the galley, and a boat that could be built economically in quantity. Stem and ribs are oak; keel and deadwood, fir; planking, red cedar; decks, plywood; trim, Honduras mahogany; and fastenings, Everdur. She has a 4150-lb iron keel.

No problem with the questions, I enjoy sharing my experience from messing about with wooden boats. I went to the same site you did (http://www.classicdaysails.com/Pages/TheAura.html) and by her lines she certainly appears to be an adequate coastal cruiser and there would be little to fear in a seaway. Make sure there are cockpit drains. You can just fill the ply crack with an epoxy paste but the wet bunk could be from condensation rather than a leak, which leads to an important point, the most significant factor in the survival of a wood boat over time is adequate fresh air circulation throughout the inside of the hull.

The best way to check the condition of any wooded area on a boat is by sounding it, by tapping the wood with the handle end of a screwdriver . A sharp solid sound indicates healthy wood, a soft or dead sound indicates problems, rot, fastening failure, ply separation or electrolysis damage. This is how a surveyor would test the soundness of the hull. Also on this boat having an iron keel and probably steel keel bolts, it is important to sound out these bolts as well to get an indication of there condition. Also, Everdur fastening are pretty resistant to deterioration but can be weakened by electrolysis below the waterline. Considering your newness to the wooden boat scene, it would be worth the money to have a survey done so you can have some definitive answers to your concerns. From what I see, its a good deal--------g

question: I keep asking this question to myself, "Why not a Ketch?" I love the design but don't see many on the Great Lakes. Can you give me a why or why not a ketch would be a great boat for the Great lakes? The boat I have in mind is a Person 365. Thank you. Lorenzo

P.S. boating betty is my wife!

Lorenzo & Betty

I am with you. I have owned boats with a variety of rigs and the ketch

is my favorite. You probably don't see many on the lakes because it is

mainly a cruising rig, having the advantage of being easy to single hand and

having many sail combinations to handle a variety of weather and sea

conditions. But It can not sail as close to the wind as a sloop, has a mast

in front of the steering station, is a bit slower and for those reasons is

not the first choice of day sailors or weekend cruisers. Personally I like

their looks and all the lines and rigging to mess with. Sail boat choice is

very personal, go with your gut------------gary

Thank you Gary for your insight very appreciative. I met today with our

broker to take another look at a Person 365. She is in great shape, and we

will be bringing an offer to the table soon. Once again, thanks Lorenzo

question: First I'd like to say this is the best site I've ever seen for advice. I wish I would have found you when I had my Columbia 26. on behalf of all us poor sailors, thank you so much for your help. Okay I'm looking at a 1973 Coronado 32'center cockpit for my next project and the boat I hope to retire on. The keel bolts need to be addressed and i've read on your site about that, but I would like to know if this boat has any notorious problems or anything that I should be wary of when doing my self survey. It has an inboard deisel and I've only dealt with outboards up till now, it basically looks like a greasy room with an engine in the middle of the floor. the hull looks like crap and I figured I'd sand it down and epoxy but I want that real glossy look for once, also , any input on turning this into a ketch rig? there is a large aft deck that basically is dead space as it is elevated due to the aft cabin. I know nothing about rigs and how one thing affects another, al!

l I've ever done is put up the main and go. thanks in advance, Rick Thompson

Rick;

Thanks for the accolades, it helps. I am not familiar with that particular boat but suggest you take your questions to both the cruising world discussion forum at http://forum.cruisingworld.com/forums/genlmesg/index.pl and to the Coranado forum page at http://www.concentric.net/~Cs-cb/Sailing/forum/.

As far as changing the Rig from a sloop to a ketch, you are on a slippery slope. A sailboat has a specific center of effort which is established from the relationship between the boats lines and the rig it has. The center of effort controls both the balance of the boat ie. steerage, and it's sailing efficiency on all points of sail. The mast on a sloop is fairly centered where in a ketch it is further forward, so changing the rig configuration without changing anything else is risky, but check on the forum and see if others have done such. Most importantly, there are a lot of used boats out there, it might make more sense to look for what you want rather than doing a conversion on a lesser vessel. Good luck with your search------gary

question: gary we are thinking of buying a 1969 sylva houseboat with steel tubes.i am worried they will rust thru.they look pretty rusty where they are out of water. the guy said it didnt leak and it is tied to buoy on fresh water lake.would you be concerned about steel tubes on a boat this old? thank you so much
.

Yes, I would be concerned. I am presently working on a friends steel
sailboat which appears in good shape but in scraping the bottom we produced
a small hole thru the hull. However if the houseboat is merely going to sit
in one place, you could add additional floatation under the structure but if
it is going to be moved about I would get an expert to check out the tubes.
If you have to check it yourself, have it hauled out of the water and sound
the tubes by lightly tapping all over them with a small hammer. You want to
hear solid sharp sounds not dull soft ones. Good luck, it's great to live on
the water-------gary

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.

CAULKING 61

question: Gary,

Wow! Awsome site! I am in the process of purchasing a 19' 1954 Century Viking. The boat is about 12hr derive away so I am having a survey this week by a local surveyor familliar with wood boats. I will want to take a sea trial prior to taking posession of the boat and plan to do that when I drive out to get it, providing it has a sound survey. The owner stated that the boat would need to hang in slings to soak and we are talking about splitting the charge for that service at a marina. My concern is that I didn't think small lap strake boats needed to soak and I would like to terailer this boat to many different lakes, rivers, etc. and wonder if that is going to be a problem. Is there a way to seal or calk the seams so it doesn't leak so much before swelling?

Richard

Richard;

Well, it depends. If a wood boat that is either lapstrake or
carvel planked is high and dry for more than a couple weeks, it will surely
shrink some especially if it sits in a warm breezy area, but if it is soaked
on a regular basis, like once a week it should be fine. With a lapstrake
hull, after it is dried out, you can put a bead of 5200 caulk along each
lap. It is sticky stuff and remains flexible over time so will adapt to
swelling and shrinkage. Enjoy your new old boat and keep a small salt block
in the bilge to turn any freshwater to salt water which kills the rot spore
that live in fresh water.---gary

Gary,

Thanks much for the advise. I noticed on an earlier question I read that you recomended 3m 101 on a plank or a lap and I noted it. Is 5200 a better choice for my aplication and can it be battered around the garboard, keel and transome? Has anyone tried calking like cotton or something else in between the keel and garboard where I'm guessing is the most shrinkage?

Sorry, I know it is obviously hard to say where the issues are as I am just guessing before I actually see the boat or the survey report. I am just excited about the boat and looking forward to caring for it.

Thanks again for the help and have a fine day.

Richard

Richard;

I see why you're excited, she is a beauty. The 3m 101 is used more as a
bedding compound or seam filler, especially between parts you may wish to
take apart at a later date. The 3M 5200 is tremendously adhesive and works
best where you need good stickability and resilience. Yes, often cotton is
used on the garboard and keel seam, but on small boats where the plank
thickness is not suitable for hammering it in , a cotton string rolled into
the seam with a roller like a pizza cutter is used.It is evident you will be
a good steward for this classic. Often you get the best advice from others
with similar boats
http://www.centuryboatclub.com/---------g

question: We are ready to finish the inside of our white oak and marine 1/4 plywood 15 ft. Glen-L 15 sailboat. What should we do to help insure that the centerboard trunk won't leak? Should we paint the whole inside with RAKKA epoxy before the floor and seats go in? Should we prime and paint with an exterior porch and floor paint? Should we Tung oil the inside? Should we use the 3-M 2500 caulk around the inside of the centerboard trunk before it is painted or what? This boat will be on a trailer under a roof most of the time. The outside is fiberglassed and epoxied with Brightside paint.

We are looking for advice. Many thanks...

Nice project; normally the way a centerboard trunk is structured , any
caulking is done during construction. I would just use a good primer and
porch and deck paint and see what happens. If you have any leaks you can
localize them and seal them. Good luckwith your launch and enjoy your boat.
I started my boat passion by building a kit boat myself--gary

Thank you for such a fast answer. If you don't mind, there are a few other questions:

1) Any particular kind of paint? Would it be acrylic or oil?

Lowes or Home Depot?

2)If there are any leaks, with what kind of caulk do you seal them?

Thanks again...

No problem, ask away. With boats always use oil or alkyd paints. Also with a wood boat there will be swelling of the non playwood pieces when the boat goes in the water, so you may get a couple small leaks before the wood swells up. But if you need to fix a leak, dry the area out, a hair dryer helps, and apply 5200. I checked out the Glen-l website and your 15 footer, good looking boat. I have a 19ft wood lightning, very similar------------gary

question: Gary, I have gotten a lot of information from reading your site, and hope you might have time to anwer a question. I have a strip planked boat on which the seams are slightly opened. I have wooded the hull, filled the seams open enough to take it with seam compound, and put on a couple coats of bottom paint. The hairline cracks I then filled with wet/dry roof patch, to slow the leaking during the swelling process. Because the seams are only 1.25" apart, large areas of the hull have a thin coating of roofing cement over the bottom paint from where I cleaned the excess off with a broad knife. My question--do I need another coat of bottom paint over these areas, or will the roof cement wear off too quickly for anything to set on it? Thanks for any advice. Sam Glasscock

Sam;

Not much will grow on the roof cement, so no worry, but next time mix a
little bottom paint with the roof cement before you apply it------gary

question: I am refastening and recaulking a 76ft MCQueen yacht and I am wanting to know if I should use cement or a Sealant over the cotton in the seams? I have always used cement in the past but the boater owner is saying that his boat goes 25 knots and he is afraid that the cement will fly out. The sealant that he is thinking of using is 3M Marine Adhesive/Sealant Fast Cure 4000UV and I am afraid that the sealant will peel off if it does not stick good enough.

What is your opinion?

Thanks, Wilf

WILF;

I would tend to stay away from the 3m polysulfides they are almost
impossible to get out if necessary and they bring out the cotton with them.
Plus even at high speeds, I think the water pressure on the seams would push
in rather than pull the seam compound out. My preference would be to use the
standard Interlux underwater seam compound. Actually I have never heard of
seam compound coming out unless it is very old, hardened and shrunk. I have
little experience with cement as a seam filler so will not advise on its
use-----------gary

question: Hi Gary,

I have 43 foot spotted gum (1 1/2 inch) cruiser (built in Victoria Australia 1957)- what are your thoughts on the advantages/disadvantages of splining the garboard please?

On one hand Im told that its a great idea to strengthen the area and reduce leaks, never have to recaulk etc., but then Im told by others not to spline the garboard. Planks in my hull are copper clenched. I have some laminated ribs that are cracked (mostly on bends). Boat takes a little water, more after a working.

If I was to spline Im told a pine wood (celery top pine - Australian boat building wood) would be fine coated in west systems epoxy. Does this sound right? Would really appreciate your opinion.

Cheers, John Tasmania Australia

John;

Carvel planked boats, plank on frame, are caulked with cotton and or oakum because the
wood moves from the natural stresses on a boat hull and the watertightness
of a seam is dependent on the filler to adapt to this movement. Splines must
be glued in or they will "walk" out of the seam and a glued spline has no
ability to absorb movement and will thus crack the glue or epoxy seal and
leak like hell with no easy repair. With caulking , which needs to be
changed or tightened up occasionally { especially on the garboard where oil
and diesel can eat up the cotton), the fix is not that big of deal. Boats
that are built with splined seams and fiberglassed over can make for a strong hull but using splining on a plank on frame hull that was built for
caulking is a strict NO GO. Good luck with your project, sounds like a nice
boat------gary

G'Day Gary,

Thats great advice, makes sense of course - there is a bloke splining the

garboard on a large carvel closed seam boat next to mine. he is then

diagonally laminating hoop pine over the te planks. i cant undertsand why

because the hull seems as tight as a drum so to speak.

Thanks again. Pic of my boat attached - much cabin work being done next hull

and fit out.

John

John;

Some folks want to turn their perfectly well built wood boat into an
epoxy amalgamation of wood pieces, defeating the very advantages that a wood
boat has, its ability to flex and move with stress. Great shots, you are a
good steward to your boat. Have a great day down under---g

Hi Gary,

That was a quick response. Reading between the lines I think what you are

saying is that leave the garboard as is (i.e. re-caulk with traditional

materials) because its meant to have movement yes/no? I guess if the answer

is yes then undue stress is avoided from being transferred as a result of

splining to other parts of the hull (and on an older hull this could cause

problems)?

Thanks John

Yes, to all .

question: Ok, I just launched "LazyLucy" a fenwick Williams designed catboat. Progress photos can be viewed at: www.hersheyviolins.com. My question is, How can I stop a leaking skeg?? The boat has been in the water for 7 days but is still leaking around the shaft log which continues right up into the bilge. The logs were constructed tight together and over the years (10 years of building) have seperated about 1/4" above and below the shaft log. Just prior to launching her I trialed in seam compound thinking she would take up and tighten up. Well. so far that doesn't seem to have helped. I was thinking of hauling her back out and using a different method of caulking. I need some direction. Cotton, no cotton? Tube caulking only, both or some other method. Awaiting your reply. Scott.

How does this product work with a catboat rig? No sail track at all? What is
the price for one with a mast height from boom set at 20'. Where can this
product be purchased?
Awaiting your reply, Scott.

Scott;
Wonderful workmanship, but of course, you make violins and I love the
playful colors.Where is she sailed? To fix the leak I would insert a
softwood, like pine, spline into the open seam.It should swell and stop the
leak and be soft enough to give if the log swells a bit more.
Being attached to the sail track is what stabilizes the mast mate but some
with gaff rigs tie it off around the mast as they ascend and undo the ties
as they descend. Custom lengths are $10 a foot and they are ordered through
me--------gary

question: I've owned a 62' regdum paddlewheeler on the River Murray in South Australia for a few years now and replaced the decks 6 years ago. I used jarrah planks 5" x 1.5" caulked with Sikaflex. There is a fair amount of expansion and contraction with the seasons (0 degrees overnight in Winter, 40 degrees plus in Summer) and 2 problems are proving difficult. Firstly the Sikaflex tends to pull away from the planks even though it was primed and laid according to instructions. Is there another system worth trying and if so, what's the best way to remove the Sikaflex? Secondly I can't find an oil which hangs in there for more than about 6 months. I currently use Deks Olje - quite expensive and the Jarrah drinks it in large quantities. I don't really want to paint the decks, but am starting to think this may be the only solution. Any thoughts?

Thanks, Mark
.

Mark;

Unfortunately Sikaflex has never been good as a deck seam compound. 3M,
the maker of 5200 caulk makes one now for decks, it has a different number.
The best, but most difficult to work with is the 2 part polysulfide called
Decto-----http://www.detcosterling.com/dcaulkappl.htm
I am not much of an oil on wood expert, but I ended up a fan of transmission
fluid, it colors the wood a bit reddish but seemed to last as long as the
expensive stuff. There is no simple way to remove Sikaflex, only a razor
knife for the big stuff and a router with a batten guide to cleanup the
edges. Good luck------gary
.

question: Hi Gary---I have a 1937 39' Wheeler Playmate, Hull #1140, Which I am restoring to as neer original as is possible. The hull is 7/8" Philippine Mahogany over white oak frames. I have two questions:

1. Were the panks above water line edge fitted on the inner 1/2" or were they installed with a 1/8" gap and caulked? They appear to have a fairly consistant gap and have been cotton caulked.

2. Over the years the outside of the seams have really been butchered; inconsistant width, epoxy compound, neoprene seam compound, etc. Is there a way to rebuild these planks short of routing each edge and gluing a strip in?

Thanks, Chuck

Chuck;
Nice project. Usually seams that are meant to be cotton caulked are
beveled <, touching on the inside with a 1/8 to 3/8 gap on the outside.
This is so that when setting the cotton it is not driven through the
seam. Depending on the outside gap of your seams you could use a batten as a
guide and router a even notch about a 1/4 in deep for the seam compound.
This would not interfere with the seated cotton. If your gap is too wide ,
glued splines is the only way to even out those edges------gary

question: Gary, I have inherited a duck boat, circa 1900, made of bald-cypress in south Louisiana/east Texas by my grandfather and great grandfather, Robert Elmer Bowman, hunters, trappers, and fishermen. It's a freshwater, two man hunting boat drawing only a few inches draft with less than six inches freeboard. The bottom is a single piece of 1/2 inch thick cypress with identically pointed bow and stern, 14.5 ft long overall. The hull planks are 3/8 inch thick by 1 inch wide, extending the full length as seven individual planks per side, topped by three inches of side rail. The two lower hull plank seams need to be filled. The seam space is approx. the thickness of a putty knife blade.

Should thess seams be filled with cotton and/or seam compound? What kind would be in keeping with the desire to maintain authenticity? I plan to remove the alkyd marine paint applied thirty plus years ago, probably finishing with linseed oil.

Thanks much. Sincerely,--R. Sidney

Sidney;

Nice heirloom, and you seem to be the right steward to keep the gift alive and floating for several more generations. If those seams are beveled like so < , wide part to the outside, I would squeeze in a strand of string covered over by traditional seam compound, Interlux has it. If no bevel just use the seam compound. Send me photo when you're finished------gary

question: Hello Gary. Extremely helpful site. My question: I am building a 16 ft skiff of eastern white pine planks 3/4 thick, and am planning on impregnating the wood with a linseed oil-tar recipe, so there will be no paint inside or out. What would be the best material to caulk a completely bright-finished boat? white lead will show, right? would pitch be a good idea? could one use only cotton wicking and boiled linseed for caulking? or tar and wicking? also, should I impregnate the boat before caulking or after? the sides and bottom are pretty tight seams as they are not complex curves. thanks for any ideas!

Matthew;

Nice project. The tar and linseed finish is very traditional and good for the wood but leaves a surface residue that collects dirt and stains everything, you might consider other options--tung oil, varnish etc. Cotton wicking after wood is treated and seam compound, there is a brown made by Interlux, over that is OK. Pitch is normally just used on caulked decks. ---gary

Thanks so much for your help, Gary. One further question if you have a
moment: will the tung oil penetrate as far as the linseed and tar, and should
the cotton wicking be soaked in anything before going into the seams? thanks
again

Matthew

Matt;

You're welcome-------Yes the tung oil will penetrate as far, even further if heated up. No treatment to the caulking is needed before placement, but after its seated brush the seam with oil, this keeps the oils in the seam compound from leeching out into the wood and drying out the compound. Good luck--send a pic when done and ask more as needed-------g

question: Gary:

I am the proud owner of a boat of your namesake...Wheeler 43. I'm sure with your experience, and your last name, you are familiar with these boats. The boat has been completely redone by the great grandson of the Wheeler Yacht Company, John Wheeler of Newport Beach, CA. It is a wonderful boat (Sea Magazine May '05). The hull is in great shape, but it takes on a little water aft through a leaky seam about five feet in length. The water trickles through to a forward pump (maybe a quart a day...not much). Question is...since it has been recently hauled, I dont want to put it through the stress of another until a bottom job is needed. I have been told that my diver can apply an underwater epoxy to stop the leak. Is this possible? Does it work? Or should I just wait 18 months till the next haul?

Wayne;

Nice boat, wish my family was somehow connected but no such luck. No problem using epoxy until the next haulout. A little sawdust swirled into the water around the leak also works but must be repeated often for it washes out when the boat is used. Have fun with her---------gary

question: Gary,

I'm getting ready to use the Interlux Seam compound on the new boards of my '68 Owens, both above and below water. Question is , when do I paint bottom and sides? The boat will swell when it goes in water (out for three months) and push seam compound out leaving a redge of compound under the paint. What is proceedure you would recommend for bottom and sides?

Thanks, Bob

Bob;

Moving right along I see. Before you apply the seam compound you should paint the seam with an oil base paint, this prevents the oils in the compound from leeching into the bare wood and drying out. You can paint as soon as the compound skims over, usually in 24 hrs. The topsides will swell less than the bottom. Next time you haul just trim the excess with a sharp chisel.------g

question: Hi Gary hope that you are 'en forme'

I mailed a few weeks ago about my dear aged little clinker dinghy, you may recall?? Will have to take a picture for you as the original ones have vanished.

Well I have had my little boat Simone sunk now for about three weeks and every time I bale her out she still takes in water and after about two days she is back on the bottom boo hoo. I haven't got around to your suggestion of using a pizza cutter & string in the gap approach yet as there aren't any noticable gaps/cracks.

Do you think that there is a more serious problem? I really do not know what to do short of getting proffesional help which should be fun here in deepest France!! You talk about polysulphide, what exactly is that??

Thanks in anticipation
Andy

Andy;

Iam sorry to hear your beloved Simone will not stay afloat ( Have you read Folley Moett's book The Boat That Wouldn't Float?) You are right to surmise there is a problem beyond swelling. Usually clinker built boats have either rivets or clenched nails as fastenings both of which can be tightened up up by tapping on the head while holding a backing iron against the rove or the bent part of the nail. Better done by two. I would also try to locate the leaky areas by drying her out good and sitting in her and then tighten the fastenings in those areas. Polysulfide a a marine caulk available at marine stores and some hardware stores and you could try putting a bead along each seam. Good luck with her and I await a pinup photo---------g

In serveral of your articles you mentioned a black

roofing caulk for covering hairline cracks on a

wooden hull to slow the flow of water until

the planks swell. Can you give me the spec

and manufacturer of the caulk?

Donn;

The tar is a called a wet dry roof patch and is the consistency of peanut butter. Thompson is one of the brand names but ace hardware and other brand hardware stores put their names on it as well. You won't find it in a Marine store, just is hardware or building supply outlets. Use paint thinner for cleanup------g

question: Gary,

I have a 1968 Owens with 1/2" mohogany over 1/4" plywood on the sides. I am replacing several above waterline boards along with some below. I see from previous responses that for below water you recommend roofing tar for bedding, and Interlux seam compound. What bedding do you recommend for above the waterline?

Also, what is best way to get old seam compound, it's not cotton caulking, out from between planks that are not removed?

Bob

Bob;

Brand name for good above water bedding is Dolphonite, available in marine stores. If the seams have no cotton they are probably parallel, i.e. no bevel needed for setting cotton , so the easiest way to reef out the seam compound is to use either a router with a straight bit or a small circular saw with a batten guide. By hand, use the pointed tip of a file bent over. Have fun---g

question: Hi Gary, thanks for sharing your knowledge!

I'm working on an H-23 Prudence and hoping she will be able to spend her twilight years on the lakes here in Arizona. She's been a southern California salt water boat for around 60 years. Her cedar planks have shrunk some and the old calking & cotton is falling out in places. I think she was recalked some time in the past and the fasteners were sistered with silicon bronze. The problem is that the planks don't seem to have a bevel, the gaps are as large inside as outside. Do you have any advice on how to desertize an old carvel planked boat? Could I attach a strip of backing along the top side of each plank inside the boat to give the caulker something to work against so the cotton doesn't just fall through? Would the roof patch stuff be a good approach?

I have a website for Herreshoff Eagle owners and have put some pictures of Prudence there. www.herreshoffeagle.com

I'd really appreciate you suggestions.

Thanks,
Gary,New River, AZ.

Gary;

Pretty boat, nice pics. You have to have a bevel on the seam to caulk with cotton. Sometimes that bevel is flattened from reefing out the cotton with too much vigor .. If the seams were thin you could recut a bevel on one side of the seam with a guided skill saw, but if the seams are too open you have to glue in a beveled spline to one side of the seam. Backing the seam inside the boat will not work. In her new fresh water environment, keep a lot of salt in the bilges to fend off the rot spores as well as keeping her well ventilated. If you can't find a good caulker, I would glue in thicker splines and roll in some fat cotton string rather than trying to pound cotton, which is tricky business and needs to be done by someone with a lot of experience. I would recheck your seams for a bevel, it doesn't take much of one and I don't see how she was caulked or recaulked in the first place without the bevel.--------g

question: Hello and Greetings from Peterborough England,

I have just bought an 18.5 ' clinker built "gaff" boat built by Partingtons in wales in 1959. She has been out of the water (sea) for 6 years now and where the transom meets the planks I can see much daylight. I aslso assume that the planks will be loose and dry all over her. My fear is that she will sink if I put her on the water to swell up, do you have any hints or tips to cope with this

Incidently I have heard that the origional architects of clinker, the vikings used to sink their newly finished boats purposfully in order to swell the joints, is this true and could I do the same?

She is pitch pine with copper rivets on oak stretchers

Thank you, you seem a good man

Rgds----David

David;

Interesting boat. The Vikings did it right, sinking or the equivalent is the way to go. You can't really do any meaningful repairs or finish work until the hull has swelled to her floating state.Of course , being wood she will only sink to her gunnels. Short of sinking, which can be logistically difficult, staple an absorbent material to the hull, inside or outside or both, and keep it saturated with water. In 10 days or so she should be ok. Another option is to fill the open seams with a cheap caulk like roof patch tar and put her in the water and after she swells remove the excess caulk.----enjoy your new--old boat-----gary

Gary

Sandpiper is coming on well, because of other pressures i have sold my Morecombe bay prawner to another restorer and i am concentrating on Sandpiper. My question is i would like paye the seams on the deck with black caulking, what would be a modern substitute for tar.

Many thanks--- Dave C

Dave;

Good on you to know your limits, the boats will be better for it. 3m has made a polysulfide in a tube just for that purpose--101 or 4000 I am not sure. Also Detco makes an excellent, albeit very messy to apply, 2 part polysulfide--see at http://www.detcosterling.com/dcaulkappl.htm. Don't use any other caulks that are not particular for deck use, they break down quickly.-------Good luck------g

question: Gary,

Do you feel that Davis Slick Seam will forever render one's wooden boat seams to that product because the waxy nature invades and contaminates? If I Slick Seam this year will I forever be tied to that product or have to solvent clean beyond my wildest dreams?

Yes---stay with the tried and true brown. Mix with a little bottom paint and it is easier to use. If you put it in caulking tubes, hold a high speed palm sander on the side of the tube after it is full and all the air will settle out-------g

question: I just purchased an unusual wooden boat(circa 1907). She is a double ended gaff-rigged pinky cutter. Thiry-seven feet overall. Oregon cedar over oak for her hull, bronze fastened with bronze rigging wire. She has a few weeping planks. I throw some rock salt into the bilge on occasion to keep her salty. Question #1: Can I use roofing tar to temporarily stop the weeping while she is in the water? She came with a large tin of what I understand to be Stockholm Tar. Question #2: Is this used just for fragrance (delightful) or is this also suitable for drying her tears?

Delightful boat, you are a lucky man. Unusual to have bronze rigging wire because it stretches. Yes, you can use the wet dry roof patch tar to stop up weepy seams, and yes, that good smelling stuff is for seams as well, but usually just deck seams. Also, an old trick to stop weepy planks while not underway is to swirl some saw dust in the water. The saw dust will clog the leaks but will wash out once the boat is underway again.-------gary

Hi Gary,

Okay, I am finally caulking my wood planked fishing boat, using cotton and then a polysulfide, boat life product.
How the heck do they get such nice finished seams.
I apply it in the groove from the caulking gun with a thin tip.. I then use a stiff putty knife and go along the seam with pressure to push the caulking into the seam.
But I end up with it all over as wide as the 1 1/2" putty knife.
How do I get it in just the seam?
Should I follow along with a rag with paint thinner or acetone or something?
Thanks for your help.

Kevin Rea

Kevin:
How did your bulwarks turn out? With your seams you have to tape both sides of the seam, put in the goo, push it in and smooth it with a wet[water] finger, this will indent it slightly so when the plank swells it will be flush more or less. Than pull the tape while the goo is still wet. Pull the tape back on itself like< . For future reference, polysulfides will work OK as a seam compound if you have not painted the seams first, but because it sticks to the wood like glue, it is a bear to get out. Regular interlux seam compound, white for topsides, brown for the bottom is best but when using it you must paint the seam so the oils don't leach into the wood and dry it out prematurely.----------------good luck

Hi,
I was reading a message post from you from about a year ago, and you said that
using a polysulfide for caulking a carvel seam is not the best way to go because
it is so hard to remove at a future date.
What should I use instead?
Thanks,
kevin rea

Kevin:
Nice site and nice boat. Congratulations. For the seams use the Interlux seam compound, white for the topsides, brown for the bottom. Before you pay the seams paint them with an oils based paint, this keeps the solvents from leeching out of the seam compound into the wood and cotton and subsequently drying out. If you are doing a lot of seams, here's a trick I learned. Get some empty caulking tubes and mix your seam compound with a little paint, oil based for topsides or bottom paint for bottom seams and mix it to a caulking consistency. When filling the caulking tubes hold a high speed vibrating sander to the side of the tube. This gets all the trapped air out. I would highly recommend taping both sides of your seams, it's a pain in the ass but not as much of a pain as trying to clean up the excess caulking from around the seam. As you put the caulking in follow with a putty knife and pull your tape before the seam compound dries. Hope this helps, good luck-------gary

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

question: Hi Gary, Nice website.

I have just purchased a 1943 Swedish ocean racer loa 39' lwl 28' beam 8'. As you probably know, the boat is carvel planked (mahogany on oak frames). For 60 years old the planks are in very good shape. Although the boat hasn't been sailed in 8 years, the planks above the waterline seam relatively tight (the topsides are very dry). I can see air in a few places and it doesn't look like it has ever been caulked (cotton or otherwise) The topsides were varnished but this has mostly peeled and I plan to paint. I don't believe the bottom was ever caulked either. (is this normal?) I would like to caulk the boat before putting it back in the water but still have other chores to complete on the boat first so it will sit out over the winter (no snow). Do I have to use cotton? Except for a short stint last summer, the boat has always been in the water. There is very little leakage except for an open seam next to the propellor strut. The propellor shaft is offset and the strut! is mounted on the planks over a frame There is no re-enforcing chock on the inside so installing one will probable help with the leaking. What should I do with respect to caulking the hull? I can barely get a fingernail between the planks.
Peter

Peter:

Sounds like a beautiful boat and it seems she has a good owner. Many boats of this era were matched planked ie. well fitted planks with tight seams that only relied on the swelling wood for water tightness. You couldn't caulk it with cotton if you wanted for to receive the cotton without driving it through the other side, the seams must be beveled < and match seams are not beveled. Before her next splash get some roof patch tar and push it into the open seams. This will keep her watertight while she swells and the tar will merely squeeze out of the seam without interfering with the swelling. Do not use any high tech stuff in the seams, which many might recommend, for that would inhibit swelling and cause the planks to cup. If at the next haulout ther are still some open seams, you can add a spline. Enjoy your classic and feel free to ask more as needed--------send a pic----------gary

Thanx for the quick response Gary, Your reply makes a lot of sense. As I
indicated, the varnish is pretty well gone. Unfortunately the britework on
the deck is the same way. All original mahogany, ash trim and solid
vertical grain fir decks. I am thinking of painting topsides white instead
of varnish. Any downside to this? Do I paint or tar first? Also, are there
good oil products for britework as opposed to varnish. I used penofin on my
house deck this year instead of paint or stain and couldn't be happier. I
understand that they make a marine version as well. I have attached a
couple of pics. She's in rough shape cosmetically, but otherwise fairly
sound for a 60 year old boat. The second pic gives you an indication of the
quality of the joinery. The boat was built in Arendal, Sweden and designed

by Erik Salander as the 3rd Baltic Rule 8 made (o8S3, Gullveig I). The
third and fourth pics I have attached is her bigger, younger sister
(Gullveig II, 47ft loa built in 1947).

Peter:

Great pics, is that the Oakland, SanFrancisco Bay bridge in the Background, looks like you are in the south bay. I worked on wood boats in SF Bay for 25 years and remember seeing that boat or a sister. I should have stated that the tar was best used on the bottom seams, on the topside I would just use the Interlux topside seam compound which remains pliable. Apply the seam compound before you paint. Eventually you may need to router out the topside seams and put in splines, glued to one side of the seam, but this would depend on how well the present seams swell. I personally like the grey look on unvarnished wood but a good oil is always healthy for the wood. Any good penetrating oil is fine, I know some who use tranmission fluid.----------gary

Looks like Oakland but I didn't take the picture so I'm not sure. I bought
the boat in Seattle. The previous owner was from Sonoma. I'm not sure
where he moored but the last active registration was 1995 (California). It
was originally imported from Sweden in 1952 and moored at San Pedro yard
where it was raced for some time The boat now resides in my back yard in
White Rock (Vancouver), Canada. The plan is to refurbish the exterior and
get it ready for sailing next spring. The interior will be finished as time
permits. All mahogany solids there too.
I will leave the fir deck natural and clean/recaulk/sand/seal but will oil
or varnish the trim as it is mostly mahogany. The canvass on the cabin top
is in bad shape, so I lifted a section. All solid vertical-grain planking
under canvass similar to the deck (no butt joints), but is mahogany. Looks
like it just came out of the yard (still red). Will probably caulk and oil this.
So if I understand correctly, put roofing tar in the seams below the
waterline and interlux above. Paint bottom and topsides after caulking.

Another question. Mast appears to be in reasonable shape. A few open
grains here and there but glue joints show no sign of separation except near
mast partner where the solid part joins the hollow part. Could I get away
with cleaning this out, putting glue in and put a couple of bands on the
reinforce, or should I take this section apart and reglue?. I also think it
was shortened at some point because it is only 43 ft. long. I see no sign
of a second spreader being there. Sail area is only about 460 sq.ft. (100%
foretriangle). Can these masts be lengthened easily or is it better to find
a taller replacement?
Regards,
Peter

Peter:

Right on the caulking and painting. Cleaning out the troubled glue seams on the mast and adding some epoxy glue is a good idea. It is very difficult to open up just part of the mast and reglue. If you want extra reassurance you can band the mast in that area with a couple layers of fiberglass tape. The rig was probably shortened to better deal with the Bay Area's heavy winds {every afternoon 20-30knots}.As far as lengthening the mast, I would sail it first and see how she does. She's old and the days of really putting her on her ear should be over. But the mast could be lenghtened remembering all mast scarfs must have a ratio of at least 12 to 1.----------g

question: Dear mr Wheeler

Unbelievable site! I love wooden boats but know little about their maintenance. Anyway I sow a 25' folkoboat built around the '60s and I would like to get it. The problem is that there are some severe gaps between the planks (aprox.1 to 2 cm) of the underwater part of her. A carpender that sow it today told me that they will not come in position if we put the boat into the water and leave it for a couple of days. He says that because the planks are stitched this is very difficult and also that it is very expensive and time consuming to replace them. The owner sells her for 2000 euro but I can't imagine what the final cost will be. She needs a lot of work also inside for maintenance and decoration but I was hoping to do it myself. The good knews are that the mast and the rigs are in a good condition and there are sails available. I would appreciate your oppinion and look

forward hearing from you. Thanks in advance, Nikolas Anthis Corfu, Greece.

Nikolas;

Thanks for the good words. Folkboat are wonderful boats. The best thing to do is fill the gaps with roof tar patching product, put the boat in the water for a couple of weeks and pull it back out and see how the seams look. If the planks arte lapstrake, overlapping, they should swell enough but if the planks are butted, carvel planking, they may not swell enough and you would have to add a spline, a thin piece of wood.There is no reason you can't do the work yourself. Let me know if I can be of further assistance. Folkboats sell in th US for $10,000 in good shape, $5,000 if work needed---------------gary

question: dear mr Boatwright,

Owning a carvel built 35"sailboat I am restoring I would apriciate your opinion. The hull is internaly epoxy impregnated ? the mahogany planks were originaly 5/8" now 14 mm is remaining ; all frames and rivets/roves are in good condition.the boat is very dry.Some of the seams are open 1 to 2 mm but epoxy has run into the seams.

I do not like to fully epoxy/fiber the hull as was planned by the previous owner, but this i am afraid is the easiest . Is it possible to spline the boat ; is it better to glue the splines to one plankside only ->movement. Do I use softwood like cedar for the splines ( more compression?) or can i use mahogany? read somewhere there is a great risk of damage using splines on a hardwood planked boat? Is it necessary to use thick splines or will 3 or 4mm do?
Thanks you for your advice
Werner

Werner:

Sounds like an interesting boat. I would need to know how long the boat has been out of the water and if the seams were originally caulked with cotton or were matched planked, tight with no need of caulk. It would be best to keep the boat as originally built, not fiber glassing it. The epoxy on the inside would not be a problem for it doesn't impregnate the wood very far. If you put in splines you are basically taking planks that are made to be flexible and expand and contract and making them rigid. When they swell they will cup away from the frames causing havoc. If a seam is too wide to caulk properly one would put in a softwood beveled > spline glued to one edge and caulked to the other. On some very tired old carvel planked boats, the technique of cold molding, adding three layers of diagonal thin strips epoxied together, is used. With this technique as well as with multiple layer glassing, all seams are splined and epoxied before the outer skin is applied. But with a boat that has good frames and sound fastenings, none of these exotic, time consuming and expensive methods should be needed. Feel free to ask more.--------gary

Hi! I only recently became aware of your generous sharing of knowledge and would hope for a brief reply to the following:

I have a 1963 46' CC Constellation which I have now owned and repaired / maintained for 15 years in fresh water. I properly removed and replaced the caulk in the teak deck seams about 10 years ago using Boatlife 2 part polysulfide. I was not advised regarding a "breaker bond" and thus did not utilize such. The authentic seams began to delaminate and "crack" last summer while the false seams remain perfect. (Every third seam is authentic). Boatlife suggested the use of their one part "liquid polysulfide" preceded by their primer with the liquid caulk pressed into the hairline cracks in the existing caulk. That lasts about 3 weeks and the cracks reappear.

I have read everything you have already suggested on this topic and specifically note your remark "Sorry, but once the old caulk needs to be replaced there is no quick fix, you must replace it". I can scarf and replace the caulk and am aware of the products and procedures you have recommended, but I have two questions...

1) Do you recommend a breaker bond of fine line tape? (I can see both the pro's and cons of this, but it is a heck of a lot of work and the bottom of the seam is not actually caulked should side delamination occur in the future.)

2) With all of our modern day and technologically sophisticated sealers, glues, caulks and so forth, is seems that there should be SOMETHING that could be used to seal the hairline cracks in the existing caulk, by taping on both sides and paying the "whatever" into the cracks. Have you ever heard of anything that works in this regard?

Thank you in advance for the kindness of your reply.

Rick

Rick:

Thanks for the complimenrt on the site. I am not familiar with the breaker tape technique, so I can't really comment on its viability one way or another. As far as a way to fill in those small cracks in the caulking, outside of painting the decks, there is no simple fix that will work over time that I know of. But a guy who might is Smith at Smith Inc. in Richmond California. Smith is a chemist who makes up and sells gooey compounds for use on boats and he likes to solve problems. You can get the Tel # from information. By the way, nice boat----good luck---------g

question: Gary please advise, I have a 1956 35 ft Owens double plank mahogony, its been out of the water for two yrs now, the hull and bottom planks are shrinking badly ,ie quarter inch gaps or more,what should I use to seal the seams, I started using 3m 5200, a mistake I think ,the planks contiued to shrink and it pulled away in the seams,the boat will be going back in the water about the summer of 04 ,should I wait to finish until its closer,to that time ,or can I continue to work on it this winter, One other thing I dont understand , if a hull is painted and reseamed, how does it continue to swell after its in the water ,thanks for any advise ,regards ,walt waring.

Walt;

Good boat, and yes, 5200 is not the way to go, nasty gooooooooo. First go to this page on my website and read the Q & A's on caulking.---http://www.mastmate.com/a-f.html------. I assume since the boat is double planked the seams are matched tight rather than caulked with cotton. Basically the boat has to swell before you can really add any caulking to the seams . What I suggest is a month before launching staple to the bottom a bunch of towels, burlap or any other absorbent material and keep them soaked with water. If you have access to the interior planks, do the same. Do this for two weeks, you'll be amazed how much the planks swell. Uncover and let it dry out for a week or so. Then apply your seam compound, not a polysulfide, rather a marine bottom seam compound, or if your low on cash Thompsons roof patch tar works ok You'll find more details on how to do this on the webpage. Seam compound must be flexible to allow the expansion and shrinkage common with a wood boat. If you would fill the seams with a solid material the planks would have no room to expand and would cup ( and pull away from the frames. After checking out the webpage, if you have further questions feel free to ask. Have fun-------gary

hi gary

i have finished caulking the bottom of my 63 owens, question should i pre
soak the hull for a few days before i relaunch the boat

question no2 this boat came from the great lakes ergo no zinks were placed
on the boat , should i put zincs on the shafts, stern and should i ground
the through hull fittings i have installed heat exchangers with the
sacrificial anodes

Good on you, launchtime of a rehabbed wooden boat, the most feared and exciting event of one's life. Have no fear, just a very good bilge pump and strong batteries. Unless you would keep the boat really soaked down for a week or two, this process does more for the owners psychological state than swelling the boat. On launch day have a bag of sawdust handy to dump in the water and swirl with a paddle to clog any waterfall leaks, other than that, wait and see,and have a stiff drink.The boat should halve the amount of water it takes on daily, after a week if there are still bad leaks further examination is necessary. The amount of zincs you use depends on the different types of metals that are interacting below the waterline. If a boat is bronzed fastened but has a stainless shaft and rudder fittings, you would need zincs wired to the lesser metal, the stainless in this case. If your boat has a stainless shaft and bronze prop, you will need shaft zincs. I think grounding and zincing through hulls is a bit much , plus one must be careful not to overzinc which can exacerbate the electrolysis. You have a problem if you notice a white fuzziness in the wood around a through hull, this sometimes happens when a boat is docked in a marina with a lot of other boats wired to the docks and leaking electricity into the water, resulting in romped electrolysis. Happy launch day---------gary .

question: Dear Gary, I recently purchased a 1956 Chris Craft Constellation 35'. The hull seems very sound, when I purchased the boat I carefully exanimed the hull for leaks or soft areas and found none. She was very dry until this weekend, when after showing the folks on my dock that the Hercules mills would put her on a plane she started shipping water from just below her port chine about ten feet from the bow. I went over the side and found a gap where some caulking seems to have come adrift in a 3 ft strip. I went up to the marina, got some 3M 5200 caulk. I then went back over the side, sanded the area as best I could being under a bouncing boat then packed and smeared the seam with caulk. My leak is now stopped but I am wondering how long this will hold. I'm putting high speed runs on hold for now, and would like to wait 'till fall to pull and repair her if possible. Any recommendations including materials would be greatly appreciated, I have considered epoxy and 'glass from the waterline down.

Thanks, Mark

Mark;
Nice classic boat and good emergency repair. No reason to pull out the fiberglass and epoxy just yet. For simplicity sake and keeping the boat original, on haul out I would advise repairing her in the traditional way. First I would thoroughly reef out and clean the offending seam, then I would pull a few fastenings in the area and check their condition. There is a good chance you will need to refasten this area and then recaulk with cotton and seam compound. I would do the same to the opposite chine as well and of course, if the fastenings are questionable, I would spot check others throughout the bottom of the hull. If these fixes do not do it, unlikely, pull out the smelly stuff. Good luck and enjoy that wonderful classic. Ask more if needed-----------g

question: Gary I have recently purchased a 1968 40ft PaceMaker,she has been dry
docked for about 2 years. Overall she is in great shape, but the seams
have opened up quite a bit from the waterline down, no cotton is showing just looks like seam compound is brittle and flaking out in
some places.I planned on sanding her down to wood below water line
and replacing seam compound and epoxing then bottom paint,if no cotton is showing is just seam compound ok, she is carvel planked.
any tips you could give me would be greatly appreciated,thanks Charles.PS any info on PaceMakers common problems/flaws would help
also,or a PaceMaker website/group that may have some info. thanks
Charles.

Charles;
Just new seam compound is fine but in removing the old you may loosen some of the cotton which would need to be reset, (tapped in) with a caulking iron..Use the brown bottom seam compound from Interlux, if it is a little too stiff, mix in some bottom paint. Taking all the bottom paint off is OK but there is nothing wrong with with leaving paint that still has good adhesion . Here's a couple of Pacemaker forum links Good luck---nice boat----g
http://www.network54.com/Forum/225904
http://www.northfork.net/wwwboard/messages/171.html

Thanks for the compliment on the site. Pacemaker's are good boats and
even one out of the water for a couple of years should be OK if it was properly
supported and protected from fresh water. Assuming this is the case,
your recaulk plan is correct although I would find a way to swell the
planks a bit before you apply new seam compound. Stapling cloths or
foam to the bottom and keeping it damp for a couple weeks would help
immensely. Also, although I think your trip plans are noble and
adventurous, the practical aspects of fuel costs and wear and tear on
the boat may outweigh these and lead you more to the practical
alternative of using the travel money to have the boat trucked or
shipped by ship to your home and work on it there, or look for a
similar vessel closer to home. But sometimes Dreams are more important
than practical sense. To your point, when you launch the boat have a
good 110 submersible pump available for backup, also have a bag of
sawdust which can be dumped into the water and swirled about with
paddle so it sinks and temporarily clogs the leaky seams and the leaks
should halve themselves every 24 hrs and completely stop in 5-7 days.
Leaks beyond that time would have to be attended to. Good
luck-------gary

question: Hi Gary, I have a 32' converted troller built in 1952. Yellow cedar over oak ribs. Most of the hull is sound and was re-chaulked 2 ½ years ago. The garboard plank is getting punky (soft) at the bottom 2” where it meets the keel. So are the ribs in this area. When I bought the boat the garboard seam had lead sheeting with copper nails. The seam in his area is up to ½” in places so I re-chaulked it with oakum. This started to rot out after a year, so I re-chaulked it again and sealed it with roofing tar and copper sheeting. It has now been 1 ½ years and the bilge pump is turning on every 4 hours, so I suspect the seam has once again started to go. I wonder if I should have left the copper sheeting off, and just redone the seam every year. Any ideas on a patch job that does not involve replacing the ribs and garboard planks?? (Boat is only worth 15K)---Thanks--Chris
.

CHRIS;
This is often a problem on most older wooden boats with engines
for no matter how much care is given, fuel ends up in the bilge and
breaks down the wood fibers as well as the cotton and oakum fibers at
the garboard seam. Eventually one must face the inevitable and pull the
garboard, replace some ribs and floors, and install a new one. Until
one reaches this final choice, your fix of a copper or lead patch is
the best alternative. In doing this one must make sure the patch itself
is wide enough to not only bridge the seam but get into good wood
where the fastenings will hold. Best to use bronze ring nails for
fasteners. Also use the roofing cement liberally with it squeezing out
everywhere when compressed. In recaulking the seam, because of the wood
deterioration, it is difficult to seat the cotton or oakum properly,
so often with an exceptionally wide seam it is helpful to insert a
beveled batten, fat end in , and caulk it on one side to the adjacent
plank. Hope this helps--------gary

question: I have aquired a 33' wheeler playmate, bought as a 1942, but unsure. I have discovered a 1949 penny glued to the wheel, so Im thinking 49. It is taking on some water. My question is, should a person reef all seems below waterline and recaulk or can I just try for the quick fix of the leaks. I was told that just doing spots can cause planks to spring, true??? Darcy

Darcy;

     Nice boat. Caulking is a tricky business and should be done by someone with considerable experience. Over-caulking usually occurs when a boat has been out of the water for quite awhile and the plank wood has shrunk a bit and someone pounds in tight some new cotton and when the boat is back in the water the planks try to swell but are hindered by the cotton and end up cupping or springing away from the frames. When one caulks an already swelled plank seam there is little danger of caulking to tight. On inboard power boats leaks usually pop up around the garboard seam, the seam closest to the keel. The fibers in the cotton caulk break down when saturated with oil and fuel , which no matter how fastidious an owner, sooner or later ends up in the bilge and leaches into the garboard seam. So, spot caulking done correctly poses no problem but it is important that the seam to be done is reefed out so when recaulked one is not driving the old cotton through the inside of the plank seam. Also when you are checking out the bottom for leaks, pull a couple of  fastenings to make sure they are not part of your problem.  Hope this helps, feel free to ask more as needed.-----gary 
.

Thanks for the info, how do you tell by pulling a couple of fasteners, just

by the feel???

Darcy

Darcy;

You are basically looking at the condition of the metal to see its level of deterioration. A great deal depends on the type of metal used, steel , bronze or monel, and the environment the boat is used in , salt or fresh water. Use in salt water, especially if the boat sits a long time in that environment, one must be concerned with electrolysis, wherein the salt water causes a battery effect between two differing metals resulting in one metal being sacrificed to the other. If this has occurred the fastening effected will look "eaten up".No such problem if the boat has been used mainly in fresh water. Normally if a fastening comes out in one piece it is probably doing its job. If not you will need some on the scene expert advice.------g

question: Hello. We have a 38ft 1946 built kauri carvel launch. we have stripped the paint off back to wood.i have been told to apply a thin coat of epoxy resin over the planks then followed up by a thicker coat,so that the new paint would adheard to better. But then again I have also had advise the resin should not be applyed to carvel planks. Also on calking the boat I have been told to use sika flex but this product grows and shows unsightly seam lines and is very hard to sand. I was told to use putty with yaght primer worked into the putty, I was woundering what your thoughts were. Hope you can add some light. Thanks Dave ps the boat is in New Zealand.

Dave;

Good advice on no resin on planks, they must be able to breath and expand and contract which is badly inhibited by the resin. Use a good marine primer for an alkyd or oil based finish coat. Caulk advice also right on, no polysulfides, oil based seam compound with some paint mixed in to get right consistency. Also it is a good idea to paint the seams before applying the compound, this prevents the oils from the compound leaching into the wood and drying out. Whoever is giving you this correct advice knows their stuff-----gary

question: Gary, I have read your fine comments about recaulking the hull. I want to recaulk the cabin sides as you suggest but keep them bright not painted. Can I use brown Interlux seam compound on the seams and then varnish over? How about using the pine tar mix the original builders used? The deck is fiberglass over two sheets of 3/8" cedar plywood. Boat was built from 1950 to 1964 using polyester resin not epoxy. When reffing out the deck to cabin side joint seam some glass fibers came out with chunks of very brittle polyester. I am thinking I should brush in Smiths ceps in this joint, then caulk with cotton and then use 3m 101. The other joints above this I am thinking of using cotton and brown seam compound. The cabin sides are beutiful 3/4" english walnut screwed to two sheets of 3/8" cedar ply. They used the thin ply to get the curves of the deck and cabin sides just right. The boat is a modified Atkin Eric w/pilot house. 34'x11'6"x5'6", 12 tons. Deck is painted wi!

th 20 grit sand as non skid. Please advise...Alan

Alan:

Interesting boat. I agree with all you mention and I think the brown seam compound would take varnish OK but I it might be worth an email to Interlux at http://www.yachtpaint.com/.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

CLEANING TEAK 2

question: What do you treat teakwood with?

Myron:
There are books written on that topic, but basically it depends on if the teak is inside or outside and on the finish you prefer. Unlike other woods, teak does not need a cover finish to protect it, it has natural oils that do that. So one way to treat it is to do nothing except wash it occasionally and watch it turn a silvery gray. If you want an easy to clean smooth finish, varnish works well. If you want a less shinny finish and a bit more natural simply oil it. It is a very durable wood, the finish you choose is personal taste rather than protective----------------gary

Gary
Mine is gray, but like to give it some color again without sealing it. What type of oil should I use?
Myron

Myron:
If you want to get the original color back there is a two part teak cleaner that does the trick. West Marine has it as should any marine store. After you clean it use teak oil, also available at marine stores. Thin down the first coat with a little paint thiinner.----gary

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

CUTLASS BEARING & STUFFING BOX 5

question: I have a Formosa 51, and would like to replace cutless bearing. Stern tube is bolted not lagged, so the stern tube flange is not threaded to the shaft tube, right? Do I need a prop puller to get the flange off? How can I make sure getting it off will not damage shaft tube? Thanks

Usually that flange is not threaded on fiberglass boats for the stern tube
is glass not metal , but normally in changing the cutlass bearing you don't
pull the flange. I use a sawsall with a metal cutting blade and cut the
bearing longitudinally in two places, it is a bronze brass metal so fairly
soft. Also look for set screws in the flange. The new bearing can be tapped
in with a little lubrication, utter hand cream works well. If the flange
must be pulled be careful to realign it properly to the engine flange when
remounting, any misalignment makes the bearing wear unevenly. For this
reason check the old bearing for uneven wear which will tell you if the
engine is presently properly aligned. If there is uneven wear and the flange
has not been removed, adjust the engine position not the flange.Good luck
and I suggest you also get advice from other Formosa owners at
http://www.force50.org/forum/cmps_index.php -------gary

Dear Gary:

I greatly appreciate your response. However, if the flange is not removed, then won't the
prop shaft have to be removed? How else do you get a sawsall in there to cut the cutless bearing out?

Thanks again!

Sorry, I just assumed the shaft was pulled. As far as I know you must either pull the shaft or the flange to get the cutlass out. In doing it yourself pulling the shaft is usually preferable so one is not screwing with the alignment of the flange but in your case flange removal looks fairly simple and you could just have a machine shop press out the old bearing and press in a new one. Another advantage of pulling the shaft is you can inspect its condition as well as the condition of the stern tube.-----g

question: Hi Gary

I've got a 23' clinker built mahogany yacht. I've been restoring it over the past 18 months, and would like to ask you a question about the stern gland. I've disconnected the prop shaft from the engine, which allows me to pull the propellor and shaft about 4" out. There doesn't appear to be any play in the shaft if I move it side to side, and when I originally bought the boat, it take in a little water but not as far as I can tell through the prop shaft. As I look at the stern gland, I can see it's made from a hard rubbery substance. My question is, is this the kind of thing I should replace as a matter of routine whilst the boat is out of the water?
Your Pat

PS I am on the East coast of England, and congratulations on a fascinating and brilliant website!

Pat;

Interesting boat.That cutlass bearing is only replaced when worn and it

is a pain in the butt so be happy yours is OK------g

question: Cutlass bearing vs stuffing box packing? I'm refurbishing an old, 1934, wooden sail boat.It appears that just forward of the prop is an external stuffing box. When I removed the nut the cavity was filled with seven rings of packing material. Is this right?

Hi;
Normally the stuffing box with the packing is located inside the hull connected to a rubber hose where it enters the hull and there is a cutlass bearing on the outside. However on some older boats they placed it on the outside of the hull where the shaft enters, thus acting as both a stuffing box and a bearing. The only problem with the latter method is that you cannot adjust it when the boat is in the water, which means if it starts leaking you have to go for a swim.------------gary

question: I need to remove a blind cutlass bearing. Is there a special tool for the job or will a slidehammer work. Also I need a name of a company that sells the nessacary press to remove a cutlass from a stand alone strut( able to get to both sides)Thank You Mike

Mike;
Using a slide hammer with some heat applied should work but you won't find an on the shelf special tool for pulling a strut bearing, usually yards fabricate up some sort of puller or they do what I usually do and use a sawsall with a metal blade and split the bearing in 2 places and tap it out. Good luck-----gary

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DECK & COACHROOF REPAIRS 32

Hey Gary,

Glad you're still here. I have this Monterey the Jo Jo I am going through.
There was a small plaque in the house that said " Cabin built by Mario
Biacquiava 1936 in San Francisco" so the boat is at least that old. Most
of the wood seems to be in good shape but as I have dug in I have found
wood that needs replacing. At present I am reworking the front deck area.
A former owner had built bulwarks on the deck and over time rot developed
under the added structure. The original deck is one inch thick cedar
strips nailed to fir beams that were landed into a notched oak 2X3 that
ran along the inside of the sheer. The edge of the deck was finished with
a fir covering board about eight inches wide made out of two pieces per
side. Most of the structural pieces had significant rot so I have decided
to replace the deck and beams. To replace the steam bent notched 2X3 along
the sheer seemed beyond my ability so after putting temporary bracing on
the deck beams I cut the beams removed the 2X3 trimmed the tops of the
half ribs (about two inches) and have laminated 1.5X3 fir strips along the
sheer. I plan to redo the deck with three layers of quarter inch ply bent
and glued over the original deck beams. Once the deck is in place I will
replace the original beams with laminated beams constructed in place. To
start off I plan to surface the new deck with window screen and lagging.
Originally the covering board had a 2X4 toe board set on edge, I think
this piece can be easily laminated together but I am not sure what the
best way to attach it would be. Also I am not sure how to finish the
exposed edge of the plywood deck. I think for structural reasons I should
eliminate the cover board and run the plywood all the way out over the top
of the hull planking. My inclination is to glue a strip of fir over the
exposed edge of the plywood and to through bolt the toe rail on top of the
lagging. I have never done this kind of work before so if you have any
suggestions I would be glad to hear them. I have more I would like to ask
about the structural pieces in the bow but am finding it hard to describe
everything ( I don't have the language). I will see if I can get some
pictures together. Anyway please let me know what you think about the toe
rail and the deck and any other thing.
thanks,

Paul

Paul;

Your doing fine with the language and your procedures seem AOK. The
laminated ply will strengthen the foredeck as will the laminated beams.
Gluing a covering piece over the ply edges makes sense as does bolting the
toe rail. I would use Dolphonite bedding compound under that toe rail, also
add some mold inhibitor (available at paint and hardware stores) to your
lagging before applying.-------Gary

Hey Gary,

Thanks for getting back to me. I am thinking about putting a layer of red
cedar strips over the deck beams before I lay on the plywood decking, a
decorative layer for the inside ceiling. I would want to use strips about
3/8 inch by two inch to roughly match the original deck strips in
appearance. They would be set edge to edge without caulking. I was
thinking I could put screen and lagging over the top and then bed the
plywood in roof patch over the top of the lagging. My concern is that
condensation from the inside could be held against the bottom of the
plywood setting up a rot situation. Also if I wanted to put uncalked
strips over the deck how would I attach them and would water being trapped
near the plywood be a problem. Since the strips would be completely a
cosmetic addition I know it may be best just to leave them off. so what do
you think?
thanks,Paul

Paul;

Again, I think you have sufficiently thought this through and tend to
agree with your method although it will add considerable extra time but what
the hell.. With attaching the deck strips I would recommend laying them into
a 2 part polysulfide caulking adhesive. I use
Detco---http://www.detcomarine.com/dmpdts.htm--. Temporarily fasten the
strips with staples that are held proud with little pieces of cardboard
making them easy to take out once the poly sets up. It's a messy process but
you get a good waterproof bond. with no fastenings---gary

Hey Gary,

You're right about the extra time, I have enough to do just taking
care of the regular stuff so I'm back to the plywood deck leaving
the cosmetic enhancements for another day or life. I have attached
some pictures below. The interior picture shows the board along the
inside of the sheer (inwhale, sheer clamp?) and the deck beams cut
and butted to that board. I created a problem for myself by
trimming the tops of the ribs to make room for that sheer board in
that the sheer plank is not very well supported anymore. Originally
I thought I would put a beam shelf in that would hold everything
together but at that time I hadn't really thought about how poorly
the sheer plank would be supported. So now I'm wondering if I
should put a stainless steel strap on each rib to hold the new
board. If I through bolt them I could hold the new board, the sheer
plank, the second plank, and the rub rail (can you tell the things
I stay awake at night thinking about?). It also has crossed my mind
that once I laminate the plywood deck and tie all the support
pieces together everything may be held together fine by the beam
shelf... The other thing (for now) is what kind of glue would you
suggest to laminate the plywood with. I was planning on using
Gorilla glue, I did the coach top with that and it seemed to work
OK. I also have thought about using polyurathane construction
adhesive (some local guys swear by it) but I have no experience
with it. I like to use materials I am familiar with but I'm new to
boats. The other thing is attaching the deck the beams and the butt
ends of the beams to the board along the sheer, should I use some
kind of bedding or glue. For the butt ends I think if they are
glued the glue needs to be able to flex somewhat without breaking,
maybe 5200? I have been a house painter for 35 years and have found
out over time that traditional and low tech materials often are the
best, but not always. I like the way you talk about materials in
your blog so what do you think?
thanks, Paul

Paul;

Thanks for the pics, nice Monterey and the work you have done looks
very professional. I think you are right about the ply deck tying all the
pieces together and I think 5200 is best for bedding the joints. I have no
experience with gorilla glue but if it is waterproof it should be OK. The
important part is to have no voids between the pieces for condensation could
develop followed by rot fungus. I tend to like an epoxy glue that is of
thick consistency so no voids result but the poly glue might do the same.
Another way, I have used with success, is to sandwich the 2 layers between a
layer of resin saturated fiberglass mat, no voids guaranteed. Also have just
used roofing cement between the layers and relied on mechanical
fasteners to secure them.. An aside, here is a pic of the Monterey's at
Fisherman's wharf In SF many of which I worked on, but the real special one
is The Pico, built by a master builder also named Mario who was my
acquaintance and mentor---------gary

Hey Gary,

Thanks for getting back to me. The saturated glass mat sure sounds like
the Cadillac way to go. I am kind of resistant to using epoxy partly
cause I'm cheap and because it it just bugs me that it is every body's
"magic bullet" cure for everything but I know in this case structurally
it would be the strongest. I also do like the idea of bedding with roof
compound and mechanical fasteners, seems more like a traditional way and
it so counter to the "magic bullet" thinking. Seems I have some more
rethinking to do. Thanks for the picture of the Pico. I was at
Fisherman's Wharf last fall with a friend looking at the Montereys
trying to get an idea of what to do with my boat. The Pico was one of
the boats we both liked and talked about then, that's pretty cool you
knew the man that built her. Thanks again Gary I'll be talking to you
soon.----Paul

question: i have a 24' 1936 clipper cruiser i am restoring. it had a canvas top on the cabin. i have absolutely no idea how to put canvas back on. could you tell me how or recommend a good book that would tell how to do this. i do not know where to start. thanks, thomas.

Hi;

Canvassing is a bit tricky because it has to be stretched over the
surface but not to tightly, water applied to shrink it then painted over to
seal it but you still end up with a material that will rot over time and can
rip and is most difficult to repair. Best how to book probably Chapelle's
classic "Boatbuilding". Another option is to use fiberglass but that is
messy to work with and you end up with a non flexing material which tends to
crack when applied over flexing wood. The last alternative and the one I use
most is applying a lagging compound over a plastic screen, the kind used in
your windows. You simply paint it on over bare wood, lay the screen in a wet
undercoat and paint over the screen with multiple coats to get the
smoothness desired. You end up with a clean flexible surface . Works best
over plywood so if your surface is planks you might want to first put a thin
layer of plywood over it . (below is info given for a previous question)

Lagging compound is a liquid, kind of like Elmer's glue, that is used in
the heating industry to saturate the cloth used for insulating heating
pipes. Years ago a brand name called aerbol was found to work great, with a
screen cloth for reinforcement, on boat decks and cabin tops. It acts like a
glue, dries in 20 minutes so you can get several coats on in one day and is
water-soluble for easy cleanup. It is fully waterproof once painted, and is
easy to repair if necessary. I have used it for years and have revisited
boats I did 10 to 15 years ago and it is still fine. Most of the Monterey
fishing boats in San Francisco are held together with the stuff. It is
available through heating supply outlets. You must add some anti mold agent
to it. Today , since it is rarely used anymore, it can be difficult to find,
so below I give the brand name, the company that makes it and a distributor I found here in Maine.

------gary

Chill-Seal-------CP-50A MVI

Foster Products Mfg----Houston---call for Distributor- 800-231-9541

Maine:----General Insulation—Lewiston—207-786-3456

35 Adams Ave, Lewiston, ME

(207) 786-3456

question: i asked you a question a few weeks ago about how to canvas a cabin top, you advised me to use lagging compound. i ordered a gallon from the place you recommended. i have put a new plywood top on and am ready to try putting the lagging compound on this week. i'm a little scared to start since i have no ideal what i am about to do. this stuff is real thick, do i need to thin it? do i use a paint brush to apply it? is it self leveling or will i have to sand it? thanks again, thomas.

Thomas;

You can either brush it or roll it on. The first coat you thin
about 25% with water so it soaks into the wood. Also before you apply add
some anti mold agent available at any hardware store. The compound needs a
supporting structure, like resin needs fiberglass, I use plastic window
screening readily available at harware store. Cut screen to fit the area,
butting joints OK but can overlap as well. After first thin coat dries, lay
the cut screen into a wet layer of full strength lagging adding more as
needed and then after drying add as many consecutive coats as desired
letting it dry between coats. It dries quickly. I usually do 4-5 coats which
leaves a little screen texture but you can add more if you want baby ass
smooth surface. Paint without delay for it will soften up when wet until
sealed with paint. Enjoy. very easy to use and water cleanup as well.

If you need to apply a non-skid, here is a trick that really works,.
Tape off area to be non skidded, paint and while paint is still wet,
sprinkle a generous layer of epson salts, available at drug store, make a
shaker container. . Let paint dry then wash thorougly with fresh water.
What remains is little dimples left by the dissolved salt. Paint over at
least one more time without salt and you have a great non skid that is skin
friendly. Good luck, ask more if needed.---gary

question: Hi Gary,

I am working on a teak deck, refastening and caulking. The teak is still plenty thick (5/8 - 3/4"), but I need to cut new channels for the caulking as the are thin or gone. Would you describe the methods with a skilsaw. I have done small areas with a fence and router, but this is a much bigger job.

Hi;

I don't envy you that job. First have some good knee pads. Also I am
assuming this deck is just caulked with poysulfide (make sure you use a good
2 part polysulfide designed for decks like
Detco--http://detcomarine.com/dcaulkappl.htm ) and not cotton and seam
compound. I would use a long thin batton tacked to the deck next to the seam
the right distance from the center of the saw blades to the edge of the saw
base. This is your guide. I would prefer a small circular saw, like 6"
blade, and either use a dato set up or several blades together with washers
separating them to get the right width for the seam , usually 3/16 to 1/4.
Set the depth a bit shy of the plank thickness. Before caulking take the
time to tape off all the seam edges, well worth the extra effort. Also brush
the seam with acetone before applying the polysulfide, this removes teak
surface oil for better adhesion. Good luck, ask more if needed.---gary

Hi Gary,

This may be my winter job, 37' Ketch with deck issues you advised me on- given the context of your 1st & 2nd case scenarios; The owner is pressing me for some kind of estimate & timeline. I don't want to do anything other than T&M but I can't blame the guy, he has already lost 9000 Euro on the wrong plan. I know from tearing off my own glassed-ply deck that the work is very hard and the prepwork must be thorough==time.

I would pay for some advice here as it could save me alot of grief later. Could you ballpark$ a deck job? I'll extrapilate for my lesser experience. What would you think is fair?

Thanks!

Lee
.

Lee ;

Well in the past when I have done this kind of job I do it T&M with a
ceiling price which I will not go over. This works for the owner cause it's
a better deal than a flat price which has to be high to cover all
contingencies. If your just spot refastening and replacing some plugs,
pulling the old caulk, regrooving the seams and finally recaulking with
Detco, with a deck that size I would estimate between 2-300 hrs of labor ,
at 20 an hr, a ceiling of $6,000 with a material cost of under $500 unless
you have to replace some planks. This is based on a lot of refastening and
replugging and regrooving and recaulking all seams. Hope this
helps------gary

Gary,

A great help above and beyond just like your entire forum. Once again Gary I am in your debt, may the boat Gods adore you.

I take it the ceiling price can bring a project together on both sides, owners need to be wary and boatwrights like to get paid aye!

Now I am better prepared,

Gracias Amigo!

Lee

question: Hi Gary,

Lee with the Pinky Schooner in Maryland writing for a friend about his 1976 37' Iroko over Oak Ketch in the Med:

Traditional construction throughout with a recent modern fix to the deck and is still leaking; Aside from it being baked uncovered through long dry summers 12 years & short but wet & cold winters, the original covering (Teak or Iroko square cut boatnail fastened) boards were professionally overlayed with polyester resin or epoxy, and thin (kiln dryed)teak boards were down on top and/or Sikaflexed, and seamed. Nothing was done to the original problem-my friend does not know if the installer used any mechanical fasteners on the overlay but my guess is that unless he had a lot of cement blocks to hold it down there probably is. The Sika seams are visually breaking down after 2 years.

Please advise (I may be doing the refit as a working vacation). I lean toward tearing back to original/refasten CvrBds wSS Screws well bedded/recaulk (cotton) & pay-seams old-school.

Thank You,

Lee

PS My schooner will be floating this month, takin up whilst I take the fall off and go sailing on another friends boat. Too much work and no play distorts reality aye!

Lee;

Nice to hear from you again. Yes, glass and epoxy over original planking
was real mistake, you must put plywood overlay over planking before adding
another covering. Also the seam compound used in those teak seams should
have been an appropriate 2 part polysulfide like
Detco----http://detcomarine.com/dcaulkappl.htmo, the tube stuff doesn't holdup.

The easiest might be to reef those seams and redo with Detco and see if that

works and if not go to your plan although those original planks would have
to had the appropriate bevel on the edges to be able to seat the cotton,
plus doing a non leak deck this way is most difficult even for the very
experienced. Another option would be to cover the original planks with a
plywood cover and either glass over it with dynel ( more flexible than glass
cloth) and epoxy or use a screen cloth with a lagging compound ( my
preference) or put the ply over the deck as is and add covering of choice. .
Proper way to put on ply covering is using 2 layers of 3/8 or 1/2in with
bedding (roof cement) and staggered seams. Hope this is helpful. Glad to
hear you're going sailing--------g

question: Hi Gary!

Still working on my Pinky Schooner topside rebuild you advised me on over 2 years ago--I am replacing rotted glassed over plywood decks now with 5/8" Okoume 1st(Screwed down w/ 5200 to framing), and 1/4" Okoume next, and mahogany covering boards last--My question is what to bed with between the 2 layers of ply--due to the vast square footage would low cost plastic roof cement be good? Want to minimize any air pockets etc.

Thank you, Lee

Lee-----glad to hear you still are persevering, and yes I use roof cement

all the time for such bedding jobs, cheap and effective and a plus in

underwater applications ,worms hate it.----g

question: Greetings and thanks for all the good info on your site.

I have a 84 SeaRanger w/a teak sundeck. She lives in Seattle and has always been outside. She was in saltwater but lives in fresh now. The deck was pretty abused when I bought her with a history of sanding and agressive cleaning. The deck looks pretty thin (as indicated by the screw cap thickness and pooling at the edges. I have two questions:

1 I noticed some green/white spots in places that look like surface fungas/mold and I want to stop any spread. You mention that salt kills fungus...would that be a good solution to apply or are there other options?

2 in places where the deck screw caps are gone and the screw heads are flush with the deck, what is my best option? Should I just try to seal with something, re-drill and reset or do nothing?

Thanks again

Todd & CETUS in Seattle

Todd;

Your deck problem is pretty typical with older boats that have the
thinned down teak with screw heads showing. There usually is not enough meat
to redo a countersink so living with seeing the heads is probably the best
solution. On one boat I actually pulled the screws and epoxied in golf tees
which did work but I am not recommending it. Salt on the deck usually solves
any mold problem but if you're in fresh water a scrubbing with TSP,
trisodiumphosphate available in hardware and paint stores, will do the
trick.

I would like to do some work on my deck. Some of the screws holding the bow rail have no bite. The deck feels soft all along the side of the bridge.

I have made some assumptions, and would like a second opinion:

· The boat should be out of the water. My reasoning is I want to keep the boat covered while the deck is drilled and drying. Cutting through the deck will weaken the cleats and they could get pulled out.

· Someone suggested sawing, with a circular saw, lines on the deck, where the deck is soft. This will speed up drying and make adding the epoxy easier. Part of me thinks it is a good idea but, sawing the deck....

· I thought saw cuts 5 – 6 in apart and ¼ in deep. The damaged area is about 10 ft on each side of the bridge. I was not planning to remove the rotten wood.

· I only found one guide on soaking the wood with epoxy. Is there a special brand or type? I would assume as thin a liquid as possible. How many applications will it take?

· Will epoxy go ‘up’ or just down with gravity?

· Do you know how thick the deck is on a 1973 33 Egg Harbour?

· Are the cleats screwed or bolted?

· Is the end piece that holds the bow rail screwed or bolted?

· If I removed the wood under the plate where the bow rail attaches to the deck and filled it with epoxy will it be strong enough to screw into or do I need to do something else?

· Any suggested reading?

Thank you for your help.

Steve

Steve;

Without getting preachy---almost all epoxy repairs on rotted plywood deck areas fail mainly because there is minimal saturation do to the way plywood is structured. 9 times out of 10 doing the job right, replacing the rotten wood would take less time than all the futzing that goes into trying to make the epoxy fix work. That said I will answer your questions;

I agree, working on the hard is much more efficient than in the water.

Because plywood is so resistant to absorbing epoxy drilling many small holes and forcing the epoxy in with a syringe works better than saw cuts.

The epoxy to use is penetrating epoxy---see www.rotdoctor.com

In solid wood epoxy will flow with the grain up or down, not so with plywood

The deck will be at least 3/4 or possibly 2 layers of 1/2

All cleats should be bolted with backing plate as should the bow rail
Should not use epoxy where strength is needed, must replace wood in such areas

Good luck----------g

Hi,

I thought the deck was mahogany. The epoxy will not flow if it is plywood….

Is it difficult to ‘lift’ the outer skin of the deck? Is it worthwhile saving, or just grinding it out?

Is the skin epoxy?

I will definitely need luck and some sun.

Thanks for the info.

Steve

Steve--the underdeck is almost always plywood, in some cases it's end grain balsa wood. With some boats you can replace deck portions from inside the boat--short of that, removing the fiberglass covering is a must to get at the rotted wood.The skin is fiberglass cloth saturated with polyester resin and a smooth gel coat on top, nasty stuff---------go

question:

I own a 51 foot ketch built in England in 1977..The hull is iroko carvel planked..The deck is teak The boad is in fine condition, but the deck leaks... My plan is to remove the caulking and fill with epoxy and ccoat the deck with 2 coats of epoxy using the WEST system and then follow up with 2 coats of AWL GRIP (white) We live in Florida and need a cooler deck..I contacted Gougeon Brothers and they said this should work to sstop the leaks... Your advice would be appreciated..

Interesting boat

I have never felt comfortable using epoxy as a seam filler. It has no give

and eventually separates from the expanding and contracting wood and is a

bear to get out of the seams. Short of fixing the seams correctly ie. new

cotton caulk and polysulfide seam compound, and since you are going to paint

the decks anyway, I would consider using a lagging compound with or without

cloth. Lagging is like a cross between a heavy latex paint and elmers glue.

It goes on like paint and sticks like glue filling all the little places

that cause leaks. It is water soluable so must be painted over to be

waterproof. It also is elastic so has give and take with the wood.It dries

quickly allowing many coats in one day. It's main use is in insulating

plumbing pipes and can usually only be purchased through heating and

plumbing supply houses. It was used extensively on wood decks under the

trade name of Aerobal, unfortunately no longer available under that

name------

If you are sold on the epoxy idea you would be better off covering the

decks with plywood first so as to eliminate the expansion contraction

problem. I would research this as much as possible before going with your

original idea, I fear you will create a mountain of headaches down the line.

Sorry to be so negative but my experience with epoxy and carvel seams has

not been a positive one----------gary

question: I have quite a bit of tounge and groove black walnut aproximately 3inch wide and about a 1/2 inch thick that I would like to use for my 18 foot aluminum boat. The current wood deck is rotted out.

Can I use the Black Walnut successfully and if so is there any recommended treatment that I should use.

Black walnut is such a beautiful wood but unfortunately it does not weather well, it checks and cracks from direct sunlight and doesn't do well with repeated expansion and contraction that happens to wood in the marine environment no matter how it is treated-------gary

question: Hello Gary,

The teak decking is buckled in some spots and the black joining compound is not in good shape. Some of the teak is cracked and loose. The planking is screwed and pluged,some plugs missing. She is an old wood boat and want to keep her that way. One deck is about 10x10 the other is 9x5. Can you give me your two cents worth? Thanks, Brian

Brian;

Old teak decks can be a real pain once the polysulfide starts breaking down and the fasteners start to go. No real half measures with this. Either pull the deck and replace with a couple layers of plywood, not historical but good for stiffening the boat and allows for deck beam repair as well, or reef out the teak deck seams, refasten and then recaulk. If the deck is fastened with steel screws it is best to replace the deck because there will be rust rot in the deck beams that should be repaired. If the deck has some buckling it might indicate that the teak is laid over a plywood underlayment and is probably no more than a 1/2in -5/8 in thickness which makes setting the screws deeper and repluging nigh impossible. I had this deck problem on one of my boats and neither had the time or money to fix it properly but needed to stop the leaks so I opted for using some good thick paint. It worked. I hated covering up that pretty gray teak but sure liked fixing the leaks------gary

Gary, Thank you for answering. May I ask another? I want to save the wood look and wood. Douglas fur (I think) planks are underneath. Lets say the steel screws are out. How do I get the rust out and what product do I fill with? What coating goes next before the teak? Best Regards, Brian

Brian

You would drill out the damaged screw holes to receive a 1/2 in dowel plug glued with epoxy, then redrill for the screw. Wood deterioration from screw rust stays localized so a 1/2 plug should be adequate.. Any non structural dry rot areas should be treated with glycol, antifreeze, to kill the rot and filled with a mixture of sawdust and epoxy. Where rot exists in structural members, it must be cut out and new wood scarfed in .---------g

Hi,
I tried to check out your mast mate site however my computer would time out
in trying to enter the site. I was looking for some advice on replacing/
repairing a section of wooden deck on a Newfoundland schooner. The current
deck planks in the section are 1 1/2" x 5 3/8" and are laid directly on top
of three transverse deck beams. Any advice you have on plank spacing,
guages, staggering of butt ends, caulking, epoxy, and amount of expansion
would be appreciated. Also, a friend has mentioned the deck planks should
have bevelled sides in order to take the oakum. The current planks do not
have bevelled sides. What do you make of this?
Thank you for your time. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

D. Barron

.Baron;
Sorry about the website, the server is having problems. Since you are replacing part of an existing deck, you should use the same material as you removed and the same dimensions. Make sure the timber used has been air dried and not kiln dried to minimize expansion and contraction. If you must have butt ends, stagger them as much as possible. Your friend was right, the matching plank edges should form a slight V bevel so the caulking can be driven home without pushing through the other side. Before you lay the new planks make sure you put wood plugs in the old fastening holes in the beams. Good luck---------Gary

Gary,

Greetings from Nebraska!
I have a 1967 wooden Starboat, and in the early '90's had the deck
replaced with Honduras mahogany. The craftsman did a fairly good job,
however, he use Resorcinal to glue the planks, and I suspect he did it
in temperatures reaching in the high 90 range. Subsequently some of the
seams have popped open, and while the gaps are very narrow, they must be
sealed.
My inclination is to use a mixure of epoxy and mahogany sanding dust to
fill and seal the open seams. Perhaps you can advise me as to the wisdom
of this method, or suggest something instead. I want to finish the deck
bright.
Thanks.
George Syms
Sutton, NE

George;
Considering the problem, I think your inclination is correct. Try to use really fine mahogany saw dust like a belt sander produces. Good luck--------gary

Mr. Wheeler,

I have recently acquired a 19' Lightning sailboat with a teak deck. The hull is fiberglass. The boat had been left out in the elements for 3 years with no covering. The teak deck is solid in most places and the only weak spots are towards the bow. Although the teak does not appear rotted, the deck now has fine ridges instead of a smooth appearance. The ridges run with the grain.
My question is any advice you have on repairing the deck. My initial thought is to wash the deck, sand it smooth, stain it with a teak stain to bring back the color, and then possibly cover it with an epoxy to restore some of the strength. I would appreciate any help that you might be able to offer.

Gavin Duff

Gavin:
I learned to sail on a lightening, great boat. The ridges in the teak are caused by the softer grain weathering away leaving the harder grain standing proud. Whether you sand or not first use a two part teak cleaner, available in marine stores. This will bring the teak's color back to new. If the deck is thick enough, 3/4 to 1in, you can sand out the ridges, if not, leave the ridges. Teak is extremely rot resistant so no finish is necessary except a good salt water wash. If you want to finish it, a good teak oil is preferable, although it will take Varnish. On larger boats where the non skid properties of teak is important, one would not varnish, but on a small boat, if you are not walking on the deck, Varnish is OK. Enjoy your new, old boat.----gary

Dear Gary
Really enjoy your site. I have a Hartly 28' keel boat. The decks and cabin are glass over ply and are severely rotting. It's a pretty boat and I'd like to improve on the original construction if possible. I'm thinking of using planks for the deck instead of ply. What size boards should I use, width and thickness, considering they'll have to be bent to match the curves of the sides? I have read up on steaming timber and am game to give it a try. How do I blend the curved side boards with the straight ones in the centre part of the foredeck without making the widths too out of proportion? Can you recommend a book on laying decks?

Thanks
Dan Cater
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
.

Dan;
Thanks for the compliment on the site. Your old deck rotted because fresh water got between the fiberglass and the plywood. If the ply had been covered with a material that breathed, such as aerbal [a lagging compound] the rot would not have happened. Laying a planked deck is serious business especially if it will be an exposed caulked deck. If however the deck is to be covered you can lay the planks parallel to the centerline rather than bending them in. The only material to use in covering a planked deck is canvas because there is too much movement for a stiff covering like fiberglass. Plywood is the easiest to seal and install. Also, if you lay a planked deck you probably will have to beef up your support structure. I would recommend you go to www.boatbuilding.com and www.woodenboat.com and see what books they have. Also considering where you are located I would think there would be local knowledge in all fascists of boatbuilding. If you have further specific questions please feel free to ask. Hope this helps more than confuses you. Good luck---------gary

I have a 28' Owens '68 with teak/ply decks.The previous owner sanded through the teak, revealing the plywood underneath. These spots are cracking and I believe they are a source of seepage. I want to find a way to repair or even replace these sections of deck and seal the entire deck w/o using fiberglass or paint. I also have a forward round hatch made of aluminum which has some severe corrosion and cracks. I need some places to serach for replacement of part or all. Would gratly appreciate any help/directing you can give.

Thanks!

Steve:
Since you don't want to paint or fiberglass your deck I assume you want to keep the teak look. You can see the problem with teak ply, the teak laminate is too thin and is intended more for interior use rather than being exposed to weather. Since your deck space is not that great, you could seal the present plywood surface with fiberglass or aerbal and lay a thin solid {3/8in] teak deck bedded in epoxy over that. As far as sources for your hatch problems, I would go to the yahoo newsgroup on boating and state your questions or the bulletin board and forum at www.boatbuilding.com. Remember that a leaky deck, no matter how pretty, can lead to the demise of a good wooden boat. Feel free to ask specific questions as your project progresses.------------------good luck-------gary

GOOD MORNING,
I'LL BE TAKING A 1970 VINTAGE, MARINER SAILBOAT TO SURVEY, AND THE
MOST OBVIOUS PROBLEM THAT I NOTICED ON MY INSPECTION WAS ON THE COACHROOF-ROOF. THERE IS AN AREA ABOUT 18" SQUARE THAT THE UNDER-LYING PLYWOOD ISROTTED. THE CONSTRUCTION IS I BELIEVE 1/2" MARINE PLYWOOD, COVERED WITH ALAYER OF FIBERGLASS.MY QUESTION TO YOU HAS TWO PARTS.
FIRST.......I'LL NEED TO MOVE THE BOAT ALMOST 200 MILES UP THE
CHESAPEAKE BAY AND DO NOT HAVE THE TIME NOR RESOURCES TO COMPLETE A FULLREPAIR AT IT'S PRESENT LOCATION. COULD YOU RECOMMEND A METHOD TO PUT ATEMPORARY PATCH/ REPAIR ON THE AFFECTED AREA, AND.....
SECOND..ANY INSIGHT ON A PROCEDURE FOR A PERMANENT REPAIR OF THIS
AREA?
THANK YOU,
BILL DAVIS

Bill:
Yes, the boat has the consummate problem when moisture gets in between the glass and the plywood. For a temporary safety fix I would cut out a piece of 1/4 to 3/8 ply considerably larger than the rot area and put it over the top of the damaged area fastening it down into good wood with sheetrock screws. A permanent fix is much more difficult depending on the location and the amount of camber of the roof. The problem is that any small patch will not have the same camber as the existing roof so will stand out like a sore thumb. Plus it most likely there are other areas with problems as well, so you may need to replace the whole coachroof. If you do patch it you would have to go all the way from one side of the roof to the other and probably have to add another beam next to an original to avoid any seam showing through. If you do the whole roof I would recommend not glassing it but rather use a lagging compound with a screen cloth to cover it. The lagging is flexible and will not separate from the wood as the glass ultimately will. Good luck, the Mariner is a nice boat but I have seen many with the same problem. Feel free to ask further questions-----gary

THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPLY GARRY. I DON'T WANT TO SEEM STUPID, BUT
WHAT IS A "LAGGING COMPOUND", THAT YOU RECOMMENDED USING IN PLACE OF
FIBERGLASS?
THANK YOU, BILL

Bill;
Not a stupid question at all, I should have explained. Lagging compound is a liquid, kind of like Elmer's glue, that is used in the heating industry to saturate the cloth used for insulating heating pipes. Years ago a brand name called aerbol was found to work great, with a screen cloth for reinforcement, on boat decks and cabin tops. It acts like a glue, dries in 20 minutes so you can get several coats on in one day and is water-soluble for easy cleanup. It is fully waterproof once painted, and is easy to repair if necessary. I have used it for years and have revisited boats I did 10 to 15 years ago and it is still fine. Most of the Monterey fishing boats in San Francisco are held together with the stuff. It is available through heating supply outlets. You must add some anti mold agent to it but it sure beats messing around with resins and acetone.--------gary

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi,
I have a 14' Glassmaster. The boat is in good shape except for the deck which is rotten in several places. I want to repace the entire deck, but I have never taken on a project like this before. What is the best way to accomplish the repair? How about using marine plywood? A local repair shop said to just cover the deck with a regular piece of plywood and carpet, but I do not want to do that. I want the job done right and not just covering up the bad!
Thank you for your time to this matter.
Larry

Larry;
I commend your desire to do the job right. Never use carpet around boats, it holds moisture and creates rot quickly. You are right to suggest using marine ply for the way it is constructed i.e. solid wood cores plus no voids and more layers. If you can use the old deck for a pattern and often it is better to use 2 layers of glued in place thin plywood with overlapping joints rather than one thick piece. It is not a hard job, just take your time and ask a lot of questions. Good luck--------gary

Have had this all wood lapstrake boat for 14 years. It has a split tilt
trailer in excellent condition, totally rehabbed. On two occasions
during this period I have rehabbed the boat. Sanded it down to bare
wood, stained & polyurethaned the deck, dash, windshield frames,
interior, scraped, stained and epoxy sealed inside the boat bottom under
the floor boards. This last go around, I decided to replace the deck,
dash, instruments, wireing, steering wheel, steering cables and
strengthen the inside transom by digging out areas of dry rot and epoxy
filling. Deck (with Hatch) covered, up to the split windshield. The
deck presently has two 4X8 cut, shaped & stained 3/8" marine furr
plywood panels about to be adhered to the superstructure perimeter
hardwood and supporting deck frame. I am an Epoxy (west System) user
and feel that the short setting time available may be too tight for my
needs unless I have a few helpers to simultaneously mix chemicals,
hardeners and microfibre in order to have ample time to spread as
adhesive and clamp within the short hardening time.
I purchased a product called "Titebond" and used it to adhere a new
hatch cover. This product seems unsatisfactory to me as it produces a
foamy bond and was messy to finish. It left a sponge appearance effect
between the bonding. I would hate to have that fill-in & cleanup on the
deck panels. Screws will go in from the underside of the perimeter
superstructure, through the deck into topside ribs, after the glueing
phase.
There is also a question with the 1962 75HP Johnson outboard motor. It
has provided up to 28 MPH performance at a recent season startup test.
Only one side of the engine fires (2 cylinders). The right side two
cylinders do not receive spark off the magneto. I have exchanged &
replaced the plugs, still only one side receives spark. HELP!!!
Am turning 68 and can't afford this hobby, anticipate selling as soon as
I complete the rehab.

Kris:
Thanks for the more thorough description. For your deck gluing I would use Weldwood Resourcinal[sp], it was the waterproof glue of choice before epoxy. It has an 8 hour potlife but does require tight fits of the to be glued surfaces. It should be available in most hardware stores. As far as your engine is concerned, unfortunately I have little expertise, but I would check the points and the plug wires to that side of the engine. Sounds like it's shorting out. Good luck, at 68 maybe you can't afford not to have this hobby, true for me anyway-----------gary

question: GARY I AM REPLACING THE DECK AND STRINGERS IN A FIBERGLASS BOAT AND I AM NOT SURE OF THE TYPE OF PLYWOOD TO USE,ALL OF THE PLY WILL BE GLASSED OR EPOXYED.SOME YARDS SAY USE TREATED PLY ,SOME SAY USE ONLY MARINE PLY,AND OTHERS SAY DO NOT USE ANY PLY MADE OF PINE BECAUSE THE EPOXY WILL NOT STAY ON THE PINE .NEED SOME ADVICE
THANKS FOR YOUR HELP
JACK COLSON

.
Hi,
Yes, this is a quandary and, as with all advice concerning boats, opinions are wide and varied. Basically all plywood's now use waterproof glue, so that is not an issue. Marine ply is most preferable because it has 7 laminations wherein the regular stuff has 4 and each laminate is solid wood wherein the others use fillers. So from a strength standpoint, marine is much better. But if that is not an issue and your pocketbook is, plus you are going to glass it, regular ply is fine. I have never heard such a statement about pine but have never come across pine ply. To be safe ask for fir ply. Since you are doing a deck and if there are extreme curves involved consider using 2 layers of thin ply rather than one layer of the finished dimension. Good luck------gary

I live in alaska, I am considering purchasing a 25' trojan fiberglass over wood crusier. It has teak decking that needs work. I would like to make it look decent, and leak free. It has been covered by some type of thick paint of some kind in the past. Money and time is the problem. I dont care if the teak is beautiful or not, in Alaska wood is a premium. I just want a safe secure comfortable boat for the family that looks neat and serviceable. What do you think?

Jim & Sheila:
I think the boat has had a deck leak problem for quite awhile and the previous owner tried to rectify it by applying a thick coat of paint. Teak decks put over plywood and Fiberglas are damn near impossible to stop leaking once they start. Usually all the teak has to be stripped off and the deck refiberglassed. The real problem might be the hidden deck rot caused by the leaking. I think you should look for another boat or, if your heart is set on this one, get a pro to go over it
closely. I wish I had better news, Good luck-----------gary

Hi Gary, thanks for the quick reply, i have heard back from my sister-in-law and i will repeat what she said, The teak strips are laid over the fibreglass with the normal black caulking between. It is screwed down as opposed to glued which means that some of the screws are now visible and we don't wnat to re-bed them as it will cause more leaking problems. At the moment, leaking is minimal through the deck, just a couple of tiny spots. We are really looking for information concerning the care of the teak. AT the moment we wash it down with salt water to keep the oils there and have oiled the deck but its due for a light sanding before oiling again.
We don;t want to varnish it as that would be a never ending nightmare to keep up.
So basically, we are looking for info on how to get it in good shape and then a maintence program to keep it up with some of the screws heads showing, but have to seal somehow to ensure they don't leak. In closing the decks are not in bad shape and show no signs of lifting of retaining water underneath, we just want to make sure we know how to maintain its good looks......Gary if you would like to E mail my sister-in-law Maureen is her name and her E mail address is Maureen@steelstudio.co.za just put a attachment for me as i am interested also with the outcome. In closing thanks again for talking the time to answer regards Bill Crompton

Bill:
That helps. The biggest problems with teak decks laid over fiberglass and screwed down is that the teak is only 3/8 to 1/2 inch thick which does not give a whole lot of room for wear. So you end up over time with the screw holes loosing their wood plugs, exposing the screw head and eventually leaking. If there is enough thickness left you can pull the screw, redrill the hole with a bung countersink and bed, screw and replug the hole. A pain in the butt, but it works. If there is not enough meat left to rescrew and there are not too many screws that need replacing, I have pulled the screws, plugged the hole with a dowel and epoxy and redrilled for the plug only. Also if the caulking in the seams is loose, you have to remove it and replace it with a product specifically designed for that purpose, Detcko and 3M have suitable products. Tape both sides of the seam before recaulking and pull the tape like so > before the caulk sets.
There have been many articles written about this type of deck problem, the consensus being the only real fix is to pull the deck and resurface the glass or, if your wealthy, replace the teak. A very quick fix, if you do not mind loosing the wood look, is to paint the teak. The paint fills the tiny leak areas.
As far as proper maintenance of the teak, what you are doing is the right way to go. If you want to get a diversity of opinions on this problem ask your question to the forum at www.cruisingworld.com---- CW/SW General Messages Board - Message Index . You will get an ear full----hope this helps and feel free to ask more questions--------gary

question: What a great site for the project I'm undertaking!
I've begun a deck repair on a 1975 Hans Christian sailboat. The deck was constructed of a substrate of 3/4" plywood nailed to 2x2 crossmembers, covered by a layer of fiberglass, topped off with a beautiful teak deck. The integrity of the deck long compromised, the plywood substrate has rotted in significant portions(especially side decks at chainplates and fuel/water fill ports) and delaminated from the glass. Small sections of the deck still seem sound; I have removed the teak(not to be replaced for now$$$$) and have a much better idea of just how much of the deck is shot. Is it reasonable to think I can cut out the bad sections, down to the 2x2s, replace it with new plywood, fill all the old screw holes with CPE/gitrot/resin, and cover the entire surface with a new glass top? Are there structural integrity issues that I'm not considering? I'm afraid the coachhouse is not far behind.
The boat has been our leaky "house" for the past three years and, of course, have dreams of going places on her someday. However, my wife grows weary of the pots and pans inventory during each rainstorm and our move to the Pentagon/eastcoast present a bigger challenge. Advise when able. Thanks very much; this is my firast time at the site and I've learned alot already.
John May

Jim;
Nice boat, but that deck construction popular with most boats built in Taiwan, does not hold up over time do to fresh water getting between the fiberglass and plywood. Your fix is the only way to go but the piecing of the deck will weaken the deck integrity which can only be resolved by putting another layer of 1/2 ply over the repaired original deck. Also I would not fiberglass the new ply deck for the same reason that rotted it in the first place. Instead I would use a lagging compound over a screen cloth. Lagging compound is similar to Elmer's glue and has flexibility characteristics unlike fiberglass. It is also water based and very easy to work with and becomes watertight when painted, but still lets the wood breathe unlike fiberglass resin. When ready you could put a cosmetic teak deck over it with no worries. I will be glad to walk you through the procedure as needed----------g

Mr Wheeler,
Any solution that doen't require the use of fiberglass and resin sounds great to me. Everything I do to the boat I'm doing for the first time and the learning curve is steep. As a carpenter's son, I've found wood to be my friend; fiberglass kicks my butt. I've seen some great looking boats that appear to have a canvas deck; that must be the lagging compound and screen cloth you mention. Does that finished surface have its own non skid characteristics or should plan on painting in some grit (read the salt and coffe can shaker method from another question)? I sure do like the idea of being able to put teak back on later when I'm more financially able.
I'm getting way ahead of myself. I will definitely need you to walk me through it. For now, it sounds as tho I'm on the right track: get the teak off, cut away the glass over the rotted subdeck, and cut out the rotted plywood. Should I cut away portions of the deck where the fibergalss and wood still seem sound? Can I get the desired result, a strong-watertight seal, without removing the substantial cap rails/bulwarks? I've already removed the bowsprit and boomkin to get the teak off but am reluctant to tear off the beautiful teak rails.
Thanks for the help. I'm researching a supplier for lagging coumpound and cloth in the Annapolis area; the boats in the Navy yard there.

Jim;
The lagging compound and screen cloth are quite different from canvas and paint. The lagging actually sticks to the deck like glue and the screen cloth acts as a reinforcer whereas a canvas deck sort of floats and is bedded in paint. Lagging is usually used by roofers and plumbers but years ago was discovered to work great on boats. Half the fishing fleet boat in SF are held together with it and memory. There was a commercial product called Aerbol which was a lagging sold just for this purpose. I think they are out of business but I have also found the lagging and the cloth in art supply houses and occasionally in Marine stores. There are 2 kinds of cloth, one is like a screen with a bonded weave such that it won't adapt to compound curves and the other is called yellow jacket and has a nonbonded weave so it will lay down on any compound shape. You need a non skid for the last coat and a bit later I'll tell you how to use Epson salts to get the best nonskid there is.
If the rot does not protrude under your rails you will not have to remove them, if it was a wood boat you would. However after you put the new plywood down you may have to add a molding to seal the joint between the new ply and the rail.
I wouldn't cut out any of the old deck that is sound but definitely strip off any glass that isn't well bonded. Quite a project but well worth the effort. I hope you wife's patience runs deep--------------g

question: Hi Gary
My name is Derek Pauly, I am building a deck house on my boat. I would like to know the right deck camber I have heard the standard pratice is 1/2 inch of camber for every foot, but 5/8 or 3/4 per foot looks better ..The boat will one day look like a Maine lobster boat.. The pictures I have seen suggest a flatter rather than more curved beam..

Derek
Let your good eye make the choice, any camber will shed water but there is only one that will look sweet------------send me a PIC when you're finished----------g

question: Hello Gary, I have teak decks that have lifted, they were not screwed in just glued to fiberglass, what would be the best adhesive to reglue, and do I have to remove the entire effected plank, or just reglue at the end where it is lifting

Hi:
I would use a thickened epoxy glue and because both surfaces must be cleaned of old stuff, you don't have much choice in pulling up the whole plank. Unfortunately down the road you will have to make a decision about either pulling the whole deck and redoing it in wood or leave the glass surface. If there is enough thickness in the wood, 1/2 in, you could screw it down and wood plug the holes, but most of those glued laid decks were only 3/8 in or thinner.------good luck----gary

Thank you for the info, I will remove caulking and try to pry the whole plank up. Will west systems work, and what do I thicken it with?

Another thought. If most of the plank is still secure you could chisel a joint and just reglue the loose part and caulk the new joint. I say this because you may end up splitting the plank in trying to lift it. West system is fine and sells a thickener but in a "pinch" you can use flour.--------------g

I will try that first, I will use a heat gun to dry the surfaces, it is at the end of the strip where the three planks buckled. If I carefully lift the planks I may be able to lightly sand. I will clean with alcohol, and reglue, I was thinking sika flex or 5200 would work for the patch, but if you think epoxy will be better I will go that route. Then I will recalk. Does that sound good?

Yes, but clean the wood with acetone, it cleans off some of the natural oils in the teak which interfere with adhesion. Not sikaflex but 5200 could be used instead of epoxy but just for a small area. Put some weight on the plank as the adhesive cures.---g

we have a 1962 lyman 24 ft. & want to replace the deck could we safely use PlasTeak sheets for this ??

I don't know that product but by the name it sounds like some form of plastic. These products are usually just intended for indoor use because they break down in the UV rays of the sun and don't stand up well to temperature change. Mahogany or teak marine ply is your best bet-----------gary

question: LOOKS LIKE I will have to take up teak decking to repair ply topside which is needing fixing.
how does one get the first bit of teak up to remove all of it.
regards, harry.

Harry:
Hopefully the teak is not bedded down in 3M 5200 or some other polysulfide. You'll have to pull out the screw fasteners and possibly split out one piece with a chisel so you can get under the teak to wedge it up. Rarely have I seen this job done in such a way that the teak taken up is reusable. You may have to settle for a good plywood deck covered with dynel or aerbol unless you have a bucket full of bucks and can afford new teak. Good luck and I hope I am wrong and the teak comes up without a problem and is reusable------------g

question: Hi Gary, I have sheeted up my ply wood built cruiser I`ve recently purchased so as to repair the decking throughout the winter.

The deck looks like a teak planked effect with caulking between planks, although I think it is a laminated ply.The problem I have is that it has a couple of soft spots and also allows rainwater to penetrate through inside.I have thought of laying ply over the whole deck and covering with a layer of fibreglass & gritted gel coat(for grip)to ensure it doesn`t leak again, does this sound an effective budget repair or could you suggest an alternative please, Regards Rob

Bob;

Sounds basically OK but I would want to know more about the deck construction before putting another layer over what is there. Is it teak planked or is it teak strips over plywood or is it teak veneer planked plywood only. Plus if there is any rot you want to fix that before you cover it over. Also if you put on more ply, one usually puts on 2 thin layers, staggering the joints, rather than one thick layer. Plus, I would be cautious in fiber glassing over whatever you do for, although perfectly done a glassed over deck can last a long time, but , in my experience water, one way or another , gets in between the glass and the wood and extensive rot results. I prefer using a lagging compound. Lagging compound is a liquid, kind of like Elmer's glue, that is used in the heating industry to saturate the cloth used for insulating heating pipes. Years ago a brand name called aerbol was found to work great, with a screen cloth for reinforcement, on boat decks and cabin tops. It acts like a glue, dries in 20 minutes so you can get several coats on in one day and is water-soluble for easy cleanup. It is fully waterproof once painted, and is easy to repair if necessary. I have used it for years and have revisited boats I did 10 to 15 years ago and it is still fine. Most of the Monterey fishing boats in San Francisco are held together with the stuff. It is available through heating supply outlets. You must add some anti mold agent to it but it sure beats messing around with resins and acetone. Get back to me when you have a little more info about the exact nature of how the existing deck is constructed----------gary

hi again Gary, this is the cruiser with the deck letting rain water through. I am sending some pictures of the decking to you next.

The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:

Boat Pictures 069.jpg

Bob;

The pics help some and from what I can see or not see, no sign of wood plugs covering fastenings, the Teak is not ply but rather strips glued, possibly fastened, to an under ply deck. If there is not extensive rot in the underply which would require the teaks removal for repair, your idea of a ply cover over is OK. What I have done in the past for a dirt cheap repair, is to cover over the teak with the lagging compound and cloth painted over with a good deck paint. You could try this first and if it didn't work you would at least have a good surface to cover over with new ply. The problem being to do a truly top notch job all the deck hardware and stanchion have to come off, the teak deck removed, any rot repaired, and a new ply deck over that. But, since you are not dealing with a valuable classic, whatever works and doesn't contribute to shortening the boats life, is AOK. After all, we are just stewards. You'll have a good time with this boat-------gary

question: Hi! We have purchased a 1979 Formosa 41. Her wooden missum mast is in need of some rot repair. Can you give us any pointers on this?

We are also restoring the teak deck. Any info that would help would be appricated.

She is a beauty other than these "little" repairs.

Thank you in advance for your help

Congratulations on your new old boat, nice choice. If the rot in the mizzen is just cosmetic i.e. not deep enough to be considered structural, you can repair it with some epoxy filler after you scrape out the rot and treat the wood with antifreeze to kill any left rot spores. If the damage is extensive you will need to unstep the mast and scarf in some new pieces. As far as the deck is concerned, I would need more info on what the extent of your restoration is going to be and the general condition of the deck and whether or not it is laid over a plywood or cored glass underlayment.-----gary

Teak Deck. the deck is bowed in some areas. but we are able to walk on it and do not feel any "soft" areas. We we thinking about sealing the old holds and then gluing down and adding new stainless steel screws, teak plugs and sealing over with teak oil.

My husband is not the best caulker. So, caulking will be slow going.

We hope to have her back to her old self by May.

Thanks for the pictures, they help. The problem with these decks is that initially they were only about 1/2 inch thick which leaves little room for a plug over a screw head. This also makes refastening difficult and pretty ineffective. Trying to keep these old teak decks in any decent shape over time is damn near impossible and is the reason that many owners opt to remove them. My advise as well. I have tried everything, including using epoxy coated golf tees as combo fastener and plug in one, sorta worked, but eventually most owners, after spending time and money fruitlessly, opt for removal. Check out this article-----http://www.sailnet.com/collections/articles/index.cfm?articleid=suelar0187---- Good luck----gary

ps--thanks for relating that you have a mast mate for your work aloft

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DESIGN 1

Hello,
I am presently in the process of choosing a design for the construction
of a boat. I have purchased plans for a Lively 28 trimaran from
Clarkcraft. I am planning on ordering their premade frame kit. However,
the trimaran doesn't offer the space that I need in a cruising yacht. I
have considered building two main hulls and joining them together to
form a catamaran. I would like to know if this is feasible and what
problems I may run into. Would appreciate it if you could advise me of
someone who could look at the plans for the trimaran and tell me what I
would need to do to convert it to a catamaran which would give my the
room I am looking for. I have looked at plans for catamarans but they
are extremely expensive and are larger than I'm looking for. My email
address is wolverine619@yahoo.com. Any help of suggestions you could
make would be greatly appreciated. I'm hoping to start construction
around the first of next year. Plan on building in marine plywood.
Thanks for your time.

Steve Rose

Steve:
Your question is a little to complex for me, you need a naval architect. But, that said, it seems to me to build 2 hulls designed for a trimaran and join them to make a catamaran is not a good way to go. Everything would have to be changed. Your money would be better spent having a designer design what you want and build it from scratch rather than getting a kit that doesn't fit your needs. You should take your quandary to Macnaughton who is a designer macnaughtongroup.com home page yacht design marine publishing liveaboard catalo . Good luck---gary

Hi again Gary, sorry to pester you again, I have been
up to the boat again today with another sheet to fully
enclose the whole decking area to allow it to totally
dry out while we come up with a solution before
attacking it. Obviously the boat has to be repaired
properly but I am looking for the easiest & cost
effective way of doing it as I am not skilled with
wood but love boats.After your reply this morning I
sent some photos to you to show some of the problem.
On closer inspection of the deck today under the
sheets already covering her, it feels now like a thin
layer of teak planking over ply, as you can feel in
places where it is separating.If you look up under the
deck inside the cabin it doesn`t seem to be planked,so
I would think it is laminated or thin planks on top of
ply. As I am in the U.K. It is very cold & wet outside
at the moment to work on so we thought the best way
was to dry her out for now & remove all deck fittings
to give a clear run at it when I know what to do.
Regards Rob, by the way Happy New Year to you &
yours.I Look forward to your advice

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DORY BUILDING 1

I would like to find plans for building a dory. Thanks, Richard Proos

Richard;
There are many resources for dory plans depending on the type and the construction method. I would go to www.boatbuiding.com also Bolger Designs ( www.ace.net.au/schooner/sites2.htm). Check out Bolgers Gloucester Dory, great boat, easy to build. Good luck, a very worthy project. Feel free to ask questions during construction.--------gary

Ducks 1

I've looked high and low for some "ducks". The lead weights used in lofting.
I know shipping these through the mail would cost more than it's worth...if
I could find them......but a mold would do also. Any ideas on this subject?
Thanks Alden Seattle, WA

Alden:
Sorry, no idea.I would make my own with a sand mold and a bunch of melted down tire balancing weights available at junk yards. If you want a definitive answer, ask your question at the boatbuilders forum at www.boatbuilding.com. Good luck-----------gary

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ELECTROLYSIS 4

Hi Gary-

I would much appreciate having your input on the following situation if you have the time to consider it:

We have a wooden yacht in our shop built in 1930 that was originally fastened with iron boat nails. The boat has been mostly used in freshwater, with 2 years in saltwater and then a few periods of a month for 10 years. At the time we got the boat, some of the iron fasteners were weeping rust. Because the hull needed to be refastened, we did so with silicon bronze screws. To this day, the hull continues to weep rust, but in addition to this, the question has arisen as to the conductivity between the two metals, some of which are touching, and whether this is a causal or contributing factor in the corrosion which continues to occur.

I have been able to find a great deal of information on conductivity between metals in saltwater and their voltage differences (including what is safe) but cannot find statistics for freshwater conductivity. I have learned from other corrosion experts that damp wood - especially with freshwater - is not a very good conductor, and they felt it was unlikely that the silicon bronze was increasing the rate of corrosion of the iron fasteners, unless they were actually touching.

It seems that once the boat has been launched in the spring we start seeing rust rings on the paint in the neighborhood of an iron fastener. This year it was approximately 125 fasteners or roughly 3% of the total fasteners. It is as though the iron is continuing to leech residue through the filler over the iron nail, and through the paint, just around the fastener.

The iron fastener (boat nails) are impossible to pull as they have welded themselves to the oak framing. Since we could not pull out the iron , we refastened around the iron. As stated, we refastened the boat with silicon bronze. The decision to use bronze was done by process of elimination of the other metals available. The thought of refastening with more galvanized steel (or iron if we could find it) seemed to me, at the time, to be compounding the problem. The other options were brass (which is too soft) and stainless steel (I could not get anyone to guarantee the grade). So we settled on bronze. I know that if we had done this on a boat that was in salt water, this would have been a serious problem but the boat is ( and will be from now on) in fresh water, which as I understand it, has significantly less galvanic action.

There are some cases where the bronze and iron may touch but, in removing the filler over the spots that are weeping, there was no correlation between whether the 2 metals were touching or it was just an isolated iron fastener, and where the spots developed. There is also no rhyme or reason as to where on the hull these spot develop.

If you have remedy that might apply in this situation, I would greatly appreciate hearing about it. Also if there any other factors that we might need to consider that are contributing to the problem and should consider, please let me know.

Thanks - Mark , Owner

Mark;

Unfortunately there is no magic bullet for this problem. I agree that the fresh water environment is not exacerbating the problem but once the rust began in the salt water it doesn't stop. As they say "rust never sleeps". I have had the same problem with many boats and the only method I found to stop a bleeder from reoccurring was to expose the head, and using a short piece of rigging in a electric drill bit and like a dentist polish that head and all the soft wood around and saturate the area and the head with penetrating epoxy and then fill over with epoxy filler. Short of painting the boat rust color, it's the only way to go. I see nothing else that could arise, although, if she's a sailboat, I'd keep an eye on the keel bolts. Also, although it takes salt in the water to create an electrolytic solution the same can occur in marina's where 110 electricity is leaking into the water from other boats an extension cords. In a marina I lived in you could get a reading on a ammeter just by putting the probes into the water.---------gary

question: I recently aquired a 1986 35' viking which needs a lot of work. The hull is sound. She is stored in the water here in the Florida keys. One of the first things I did was to install new zincs to replace the missing ones. Within 3 weeks the zincs were gone! I read up on electrosis and galvanic action. Very complicated subject. So I decided to remove my shore power cord for 3 weeks and install new zincs. No difference. gone in 3 weeks There are no other boats around that could be leaking stray juice.I also shut my battery switches off. I have no electricity in any form leading into the water. ie lights etc. Any help would be appreciated.. BOB ps they seem to be turning black before they desintigrate

Bob;

Quite a quandary. As you know there are 4 ways to get electrolysis in salt water--differing metals in the same environment, stray electricity from outside sources, internal stray electricity from the battery,and overzincing. Part of the solution might come from tracking back from the pieces of metal the zincs are attached to. Since you have already eliminated an outside source, I would guess either your battery is improperly grounded or you have too many zincs which will cause the very problem you are trying to avoid. You have a large amount of activity, too large to be caused by just galvanic action. I would also get a sensitive volt meter and test the water around the boat with the battery connected and disconnected, ie-wires off not just the switch off. If there is a difference you will have to look closely at how the battery is grounded.-----Also, if the boat is wood and you have bronze through hulls, check around the base of the through hulls for a white chalky substance which indicates electrical deterioration of the wood caused by electrolysis. Some boats have an internal grounding system with all through hulls connected together, not a good idea------gary

Hi Gary,

I have a couple questions regarding refastening. I emailed you a few months ago regarding bleeders and what to do about them, thanks for the info. I have a 1948 43' Chesapeake Bay built cabin cruiser by the Lee family out of Shady side Md. In making repairs to the bow stem I've found a many of the original nails have rusted away. My thinking is a complete refastening is in order. There has been some partial refastening over the years with monel nails. My question should stainless steel screws be used below the water line ? I've read that in an oxygen free environment stainless will corrode. I would prefer to use stainless as they are close to the nails on the galvanic chart. Or should I use silicone bronze below the water line, and if so is the remains of the old nails a concern because of the galvanic reaction between the steel that's left and the silicone bronze. I 'm trying to drill out the remains of the nails but am not sure if I'll get all the nail out

John;

Nice to hear from you again and glad your project is moving along. You are right, stainless or monel, not very available, should be the choice . The steel would interact with the bronze.

question: Dear Boat wright

in my wooden Voyager Yacht at the back of the longitudinal stringers ie those running over the ribs fore and aft there is a fair amount of soft furry wood especially around the engine area. I can feel it but not easily see it. I have got a rasp in and removed a fair amount of it. I have applied a two pack epoxy preservative Is this wood rot and am I doing the right thing.

Thanks

Tony Jones

Tony;

As long has the damage is not extensive enough to cause structural problems, your fix is a good one. Usually that furry type deterioration is not wood rot fungus but rather electrolysis. It is typically found around metal through hull fittings or engine areas touching the wood (shaft log). It can also occur around electrical wiring or appliances using electricity or near the batteries themselves. The damage will continue unless the problem is found. The deterioration itself is caused by the wood cell structure being damaged by electric current----------gary

Thanks

Gary very interesting I really appreciate your reply
Is some sort of anode an option? can an electrician isolate the problem? It is worse under the battery boxes now that you mention it. Thanks again great response
Have a great Xmas
Kind regards

Tony

Tony;

Great looking sea boat, I'm jealous. This electrolysis is usually do to improper grounding. Basically current is getting into the wood and if the damage is not around a metal fitting that is exposed to salt water, then it is coming from the internal electrical system leaking current. Best way is to find a marine electrician and have them track it down. Sacrificial anodes only apply to the electrolysis resulting from different metals in salt water, they attract this current. The zinc on your shaft is such an anode. But for an electrical system leak, you must track it down and correct the problem----------g

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EPOXY PROBLEM 3

question: Hello,

I perused your previous Q&A files and didn't find what I was looking for..... but holy mackerel, your advice/knowledge is astounding! Alright, flattery aside, a bunch of us stinky sailing bums can't agree on if it was or wasn't a good idea for one of our friends to soak their wooden box mast with penetrating epoxy. I'm in the "that was a bad idea camp" because the mast may crack instead of bend. Am I barking up the wrong tree on this one?

Alohas,
Bobby

Bobby;
Ah yes, the holy grail of boat yard controversies, to epoxy wood or
not. Personally I do not think you should cover wood with anything that does
not allow the wood to breathe. The epoxy totally seals the wood,
encapsulates it, which will protect it until there is a scratch or other
entry portal that allows fresh water to get to the wood. If fresh water
enters the encapsulation sets up a perfect environment for rot to develop
and thrive because the wood can not breathe to evaporate the moisture.Add to
this that epoxy is more sensitive to UV than a good varnish or paint and I
find little advantage to its use in conditions where wood is exposed to
weather. However, a coat of epoxy itself will not make the wood mast more
brittle or effect its flexibility under stress. In my book, your stinky
sailing buddy owes you a beer. By the way, thanks for the
flattery------------gary
.

question: I am attemping rejoin some Port Orford ceder. The stern of the boat was pulled out on the starboard quarter.
I have replaced all 5/8 with 3/4 and 1 by 2 studs with the trim replaced with 1 by 12 cedar.
The problem is that i had to reuse the original 3/4 Transom and have been using west system two part expoy and
of course splash zone and 5200 on the joints. The transom is leaking fuild as we speak. Epoxy and water, there
is no water in the boat" it sits in the driveway much to my wifes displsure"
It has been out the water for 1 1/2 weeks. I know where the expoy is coming from, but the water? No sign of rot anywhere.
What is the best expoy for cedar.

Hi;
I am afraid the basic problem is the epoxy itself. When there is a lot of expansion and shrinkage of the wood do to in and out of the water use, you must use flexible compounds in the seams and other joint areas. I would guess the epoxy bond was broken and water was let in. This is a no easy fix situation. You either live with it and bribe your wife with flowers, or pull the outside transom boards, clean out the epoxy and rebed them in a proper flexible bedding compound. Cedar being a fairly soft wood expands and contracts a great deal. If you redo the transom boards I would suggest using mohogony or teak for they are more stable. The best epoxy to use in my opinion is no epoxy, but if you want epoxy information go to www.rotdoctor.com. Hope this helps--------good luck----------gary

question: I am trying to figure out the best method of finishing the bottom of a 1960 Chris Craft ski boat. I have been told by some to epoxy the bottom inside and out, others have told me the wood will not breath--I am confused and would like your opinion. Thank you, Ron Hilton

Ron;
How you treat the bottom depends on how it was constructed. If the bottom is planks, either butted [carvel] or lapping {lapstrake or clinker], you should not epoxy it for the wood needs to freely expand and contract. If however the bottom is plywood there is no expansion or contraction so you can epoxy and or fiberglass it. Epoxy alone does not offer much more protection than a good oil based paint. Good luck---------gary

question: Hi Gary, I own a 1929 28' Triple Cockpit Chris Craft Speed Boat, She has been out of the water for Seven years now in Dry Storage in my barn, She has spent her life in Salt Water, She Still wears all her varnish. I would like to Take off some old bottom paint build up and perhaps coat her in CPES, Prior to recaulking, I have read great things about this product in the Grand Banks forum, will this product allow the wood to swell up as she always has? I understand this product if Applied correctly strengthens the wood but does not fully harden. I Want to Launch in Fresh water this year, but I don't wont to Soak her Dry hull in Fresh water.
Cheers
Rev. Bob

Rev. Bob:
You are a blessed man, pun intended, that is a great boat. Traditional built boats need traditional care. They didn't have epoxy in 1929 and I don't think they would have used it on their plank boats if they had. It does not let the water penetrate, as does paint. So you planks won't swell properly especially considering how much they must swell after 6yrs dry. Also, before you recaulk, if the seam gaps are huge, I would wet down some burlap or similar absorbent material and tack it to the bottom. Continue to wet it down for a week or so. When using the boat in fresh water Keep a block of salt in your bilge. Prevents rot.
Here's a caulking tip. If you are doing a lot of seams, here's a trick I learned. Get some empty caulking tubes and mix your seam compound with a little paint, oil based for topsides or bottom paint for bottom seams and mix it to a caulking consistency. When filling the caulking tubes hold a high speed vibrating sander to the side of the tube. This gets all the trapped air out. I would highly recommend taping both sides of your seams, it's a pain in the ass but not as much of a pain as trying to clean up the excess caulking from around the seam. As you put the caulking in follow with a putty knife and pull your tape before the seam compound dries. Pull you tape like so >. Hope this helps, good luck-----------gary

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