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BOATBUILDING 18

question: Hi Gary, I am at best a rough carpenter having framed out (under supervision 4 or 5 large homes). I have a lot of timber on my land and after looking at various boat building books was wondering if the following Dory type is possible and if so how would I keep it from leaking. Basically an "incense" cedar boat about 16 feet long on continuous 2x12 x 16 feet long. 3 cedar plans (36 inches) for the sides and the cedar beveled so the sides flair out a bit. Flat bottom and dory type bow and transom. I want to leave it open in the middle as much as possible to camp out in...its an open boat. I hope to be able to sail it, row it (standing up?) and motor it. Ok so basically a 16 foot boat or so out of continuous 2x12 16 foot planks and not much bending (if any) of planks...more beveling with a table saw. Great site..incredible info. Thanks! gw

Berry;

No reason why your idea can't work but I think you should get a tried
and true set of plans to work from. Here are some links to sites with
plans-----good luck-------gary

http://www.glen-l.com/

http://www.svensons.com/boats/

http://www.theboatshop.com/plans/weekendskiff.shtml

http://www.oldwharf.com/ow_building20lys.html

question: Sir; I need to know what book or any info. is there about putting copper metal sheets on the bottom of my wood sailboat? Also What material would you suggest for caulking the wood boat. Below as well as above the water line? And I am wanting to put a bow spirit on my boat for the purpose of stowing/securing the anchors out of the way and it would keep the anchors from damaging the boat in any way. I have seen many designs using wood as well as metal combination. "Also it looks real cool." I am not at all concerned about the weight on this issue. The functioning purpose is the main reason for it. "Please inform me of any books or other materials that I may purchase that would direct me in construction." Thank You John

John;

As far as books are concerned , go to http://www.woodenboat.com and check out the books they publish. As far as caulking I would recommend the traditional method of cotton with seam compound .With the copper check this web site out
http://www.copper.org/innovations/2003/Nov2003/Cu_hull_sheathing_gg.htm-------good luck with your project----gary

question: Gary -

I am thinking of a new approach for building my cedar plank flat bottom skiff. I asked you last week about a spline between the planks to help with it being in and out of the water. You suggested 1/8 inch spacing between planks to allow for swelling, and no caulking in the seams.

Now I am wondering if this is the best route. I took a piece of 1x8 planking and it has been soaking in water for 5 days. So far it has only swelled 1/64 inch. The material is very tight grain old grown red cedar. Probably 40 growth rings per inch. My thought now is to seal the entire boat thoroughly with penetrating epoxy and use 5200 between the planks. The boat will be out of the water more often than in the water. Before I change direction, I wanted to know if you thought it would be a mistake. It is not too late to go either way, but I need to make a decision and get on the with planking up the boat.

Your advice would be greatly appreciated.

Brian;

Good show running a test piece and I think your new approach makes sense but not if you are speaking of just using 5200 in the seams without the spline or some other solid seam caulk. My personal preference is to run the seams close with a slight bevel to the outside and run a strand of cotton twine down the middle of the seam and then use your 5200 over that. I would be careful with using penetrating epoxy for that may inhibit the very swelling you need. Of course, since you're dealing with a flat bottom, there is always the option of using plywood with fiberglass taped seams and avoiding all the swelling business and just using the cedar on the topsides---------g

Thanks again for your help - If I do as you recommend, do I really need

to worry that much about restricting swell of the wood with the

penetrating epoxy? Shouldn't it be all sealed up and more or less stable

if I seal it with the epoxy and 5200 + string the seams? If it does

swell some, I would think that the seams would remain sealed and the it

would just compress the 5200 and string a bit. If it doesn't swell at

all, wouldn't the seams still be as tight and when applied? I will

trust your judgment on this.

Sorry to be asking some many questions - There are obviously two schools

of thought in how to go about this. Some think epoxy is the answer to

everything and others like the traditional methods. I'm stuck in the

middle not knowing which way to go.

I don't want to go with plywood for the bottom - I have all of this

beautiful cedar planking and I'm trying to stay true to the 1930's

vintage boat I am using for a pattern. Problem is that I won't have it

in the water all that often.

Brian;

Well, I certainly confess to being a traditionalist especially when using traditional materials. Modern boat building methods utilizing epoxies and lightweight construction techniques work fine but trouble can begin when some of these methods creep over into traditional boat building. A good example of this is the caulking 5200 being used in the place of traditional seam compounds and bedding compounds. Understanding that wooden boats are built to be fixed and caulked seams will always need to be recaulked, materials such as 3m 5200, which is a tremendous sealant and super adhesive, can make taking pieces apart or recaulking seams impossible. The same in a traditional boat, whose very water tightness is dependent on the wood swelling, being treated with penetrating epoxy whose sole purpose is to seal the wood from water. When one places cotton or string in a seam, there sealing ability is dependent on the wood swelling around them, that is why it is important to place then in the center of the seam. Simply, if you use traditional building techniques use traditional materials, if you use modern materials use modern building materials or there is always do it the way you want and learn from what happens. Frustrating, I know-------gary

Words of wisdom. I suspect I will learn something important either way I

go. I'll let you know what I decide and what I learned from the decision.

Thanks for your help - You are a great resource!

Brian;

Thanks ------- have fun with it and send me a photo----g

question: Hi Gary, I just finished a 18' Banks Dory,I used treated spruce for the frames and planking I did not want to spend too much on the wood for the boat because I am thinking of building the 27'Saint Pierre dory and only built the 18'for some experiance,my question to you is,I have a large amount of yellow birch sawed for the frames and am thinking about kilm dried spruce for the planking, do you think this is a good choice of wood for the 27'dory.Thank you Gary P.S. I live in Cape Breton Nova Scotia Canada and the weather here is not too bad for this time of the year so when I finished the dory the Feb 23 2006 I launched her the next day in the alantic ocean,she is a little cranky but I think I am going to like her when the weather gets a little warmer here, Take care Art.

Art;

Good job, send some pics. Your wood choices seems OK but I would always prefer air dried to kiln dried. The moisture level on kiln dried is pretty low and encourages a lot of swelling when the wood is exposed to moisture--------g

question: Hi there. For the last year or so i have been browsing websites of those who build or have built their own boat. Being some what of a do it myselfer I would like to build my own. I have a design in mind already. Id like to build a 12' flat bottom boat for rowing or use with a small motor. I decided on a flat bottom because I believe it would be the easiest for me to build. My question lies with the bonding of the joints. Do I have to use fibre glass tape and glass it or could I simply use a product like Liquid Nails which claims to be water resistant? Also for a boat like such would I be ok to use 1/4" Mahogany ply for the sides? I was thinking of using 1/2" or 5/8" on the bottom but Im looking for ideas. Any help is appreciated, Derek.

Derek

Liquid nail doesn't hold up in a water environment and fiberglass tape not only keeps out the water but also adds a bit of strength. 1/4 in mahogany for the sides is fine as well as 1/2in for the bottom. The rub rails and chine stringers will stiffen her up. Some good designs at http://www.glenl.com/-----have fun and don't be scared, it's a step by step process---gary

Mr. Wheeler;
My name is Gary Pickering. I live in Florida, just north of Tampa. I am
looking for a boat building school. The specifics I am looking for is a
school where I can build my own boat ( a live aboard) and receive
instruction, and supervision, and at the end of the course, leave with
my own boat. My problem in my search of most schools, is that the boats
being built by most school are smaller than I wish, and they retain
ownership of the project when the course is over. I was hoping you could
help me in my search. Thanks for your time.
Gary Pickering

Gary:
Yes, what you seek would be ideal, but almost all boatbuilding schools rely partly on the money they get from the sale of the boats they build. You could seek out an independent boatbuilder you could pay to work with you or you could take a year or two at a boatbuilding school, learn the basics and then build your boat, or you could read a lot of books and choose a design less complicated to build. There is a boatbuilding school in Eastport Maine that possibly would consider your proposal. Go to www.macnaughtongroup.com and tell them what you want to do. They might be able to help. Good luck, you are on a noble pursuit----------gary

question: Hello Gary,

I am a recent college graduate interested in learning the trade of boatbuilding. I live in Rhode Island, and have worked on commercial fishing boats here. I have looked at boatbuilding schools, and would love to attend one, however my general lack of funds will probably prevent that (not to mention student loan debt). Are there any other avenues to learning the trade that you know of? i.e. that would be financially feasible for me? Thank you very much for your time,

Brian

Brian:
A most noble goal. There is a school here in Rockland Me, called the Apprenticeship, affiliated with the Atlantic Challenge USA Atlantic Challenge Homepage , which is quite reasonable, $1,500 a year. It's a 2 year program. Other than that your best option is to work at a boat building company, start at the bottom and work your way up. Right now there are a lot of such jobs here in Maine, maybe so where you live as well. I learned working in boatyards and just doing it. There is also a school in Eastport Me. macnaughtongroup.com home page yacht design marine publishing liveaboard catalo . Good luck Brian, there is nothing more satisfying or challenging than working on boats. Feel free to ask more questions----------------gary

question: Hello Gary -
Noticed you advised a wet dry roofing cement instead of 3M 5200
to caulk seams in old hull planks ( carvel or clinker I assume ).
Would this be the correct way to go on new hull construction, too ?
I'm interested in building a few river dories/driftboats with the
students in my high school woodshop courses. Have access to plenty
large amounts of softwood and quite a bit of hardwood. Am considering
lapstrake western red cedar planking over white oak frames or possibly
ash or fir. I have probably pulled thirty pages of material off the
internet concerning lapstrake planking but please advise if you have
new construction tips.

thanks for your help, Chuck

Chuck:
Nice project and a great learning experience for the kids. The tar trick is primarily to keep old boats, that have been high and dry for a long time, from sinking. For new boat construction use 5200 if you want a glue like joint but if you don't use regular seam compound for any seams and use regular dolphonite bedding compound between surfaces. Check out www.woodenboat.com and boatbuider.com. Have fun with your project and send me some photos-------gary

Gary -
Thanks for your reply, do have several more questions !
- I assume both the regular seam compound and the dolphonite bedding
compound are available thru marine sources only ......any equivalent home
construction grades to be found in a typical local hardware outlet ?
- what's your advice on glued joints ( with screws ) vs. just the bedding compound
and screws ?
For a pulling boat that will see some whitewater do the joints need to work and
flex a bit or stay rock hard rigid ?
Sure appreciate your wise input ......all this is going towards a scaled - down replica of
an original 30' logging bateau from the 1930's thru 1960's used out here in the pac-norwest
that looks suspiciously like some of the old dories l've been finding on the internet from the
east coast !
I have been given copies of the const. plans which spec half - inch marine ply
for the sides, but with the supply of good cedar and hackmatack/tamarack/larch from the mills
around here, I sure would like to try planking of some type. Am drawn to lapstrake because it
seems like a lot less finish sanding involved. I want to spend more time teaching the kids how
to set up and use the machine tools in our shop ( planers, jointers, shapers, et al ) than how to
sand with an orbital sander - which their already using at home anyway.
will send pictures if I can figure out how to load them
into my cmptr. chuck

Chuck;
Glad to help. Any decent house grade caulk will work OK, maybe won't last as long but it will work. Flexible versus glued joints depend on the type of construction and the material used. Plywood doesn't swell and shrink like solid wood so boats made of it can be glued and screwed. Solid wood built boats need to be flexible so the wood can swell and contract without loosing watertightness. Lapstrake construction has a lot of advantages but less sanding is not one of them. The planks are riveted at the lap so the structure is quite rigid without a lot of inner structure like frames and stringers. However it is more time consuming and difficult to build. First I would pick the design, build the strongback upon which the boat or boats will be built over. Then I would build the first one out of plywood, glued and screwed and the seams taped with fiberglass, use it and see how it performs. If you like it build the second using carvel plank on frame with traditional caulking. Now with the third I would be ready to tackle a lapstrake one.Hope this clarifies rather than confuses. Keep asking if you have more questions----------gay

Gary;
I haven't built a boat yet, but have worked with wood. The link below contains
a set of old "Science and Mechanics" magazine plans for a small "supposedly" ocean-worthy planked hull sloop. I have been reading about
new wood techniques such as Sheathed Strip, COLD-MOLDED or MULTI-DIAGONAL, and Stitch n Glue.
In light of the new technology would it be "ridiculous" to try and build the
planked boat described in the link below. Part of my attraction to these plans is nostalgic, but I have also truly hated my few brief encounters with
epoxy and fiberglass. I end up with fingers stuck together, tools permanently bonded to the concrete floor. On the other hand I enjoy working with full grained wood and wood glue.
If such a plan is still worth building, are any of these new techniques directly adaptable, and (in spite of my aversion) should they be utilized. I think that I have read that fiberglassing older plank hulls is a no-no, but would it be possible to epoxied cove and planking on a frame and plank hull versus the traditional cotton tamping and caulking. Also, could planks be epoxied to the frame rather than screwing or nailing them in place.
Here is the link for the plans in question: http://www.svensons.com/boats/Gypsy/
Any advice you can offer will be greatly appreciated and followed!
Dale Lynch
Austin, Texas

Dale;
Nice design and it looks like a good sailor. Plank on frame allows no variation in construction and is probably the most difficult for a novice. The construction technique results in a hull that is strong but at the same time flexible so it can move with the stress of sailing as well as the expansion and contraction of the solid wood. It is also easy to repair. You can't epoxy planks to frames or to each other because of the rigidity. You could strip plank using one inch locking glued strips edge nailed and eliminate most of the frames because this construction forms a solid hull not needing much of a skeleton for strength. This is an easier construction method than plank on frame but is a bitch to repair if needed. This particular design because of the hard chine is ideal for plywood construction, and this allows for cheaper, faster and easier construction especially for a first time builder. You wood only fiberglass the seams. You would have plenty of solid-wood shaping with the framing and deadwood and transom. Before you tackle such a project you might do well to build a pram dingy doing everything, including lofting, that would be necessary on the Gypsy. Feel free to ask more questions. You dream is a most worthy one, no reason in hell not to do it.--------gary

Here is another "vintage" plan I was considering, and it is already drafted
in plywood. I have recently lofted and cut out a internally framed, plywood, pre-Lazer sailboard with accuracy. I haven't assembled it because my cheap direct drive table saw stripped out while trying to rip the angled "and kerfed" pieces meant to join the sides with the deck and hull bottom.
My questions on this other "vintage" sloop design are:
1. Would you include the "filler chine" shown in "Star-Lite_04.jpg"
our could this be filled with bondo and fiberglassed over.
2. In regard to fiberglassing, would one merely fiberglass the outside
of the chine seam or both sides of the joint?
3. The plan calls for gluing together multiple layers of thin plywood
(2 3/8" plys or 3 1/4" plys) screwed and glued with resorcinal.
Could a thicker one-sheet ply be used? If not, would glue the
multiple plys with resorcinal, or would epoxy be better?
4. Should this plywood skin be completely staurated with epoxy as done with the stitch n glue boats?
5. If done correctly, would this boat (with its oak framing) be more sturdy
than the quicker stitch n glue boats with minimal framing?
I appreciate the generosity Gary, and promise not to bombard you with endless streams of questions!
Thanks,
Dale Lynch
Austin, Texas

Dale:
Questions are no problem. I'll answer in order;
1----- Yes, I suppose you could fill and fiberglass but that seems a lot more a pain in the but than a wood stringer.
2--- If you are fiberglassing for strength then do both sides with roving and matt but if you use mechanical fasteners and just fiberglass for watertightness then cloth just on the outside will do,
3-- Layering the plywood provides for overlapping joints and epoxy is better then resourcinol because it is more forgiving if there is less than perfect fits. Single thicker sheets can be used but they would have to be butted with large plywood butt blocks glued and screwed behind the joint.
4---- No, epoxy only penetrates very slightly into the first veneer of the ply, plus if moisture gets behind the epoxy you have perfect environment for rot. Painting is better. Only cover the whole surface if you are going to put fiberglass cloth over it.
5--- Yes

question: I would love to build a Haven 12 1/2-Footer. I'm a Midwest, fresh water trailer sailor and I doubt that carvel planking like the original is the right thing. What planking system could I use that will last under my conditions?

Regards,
Eric Larson

Eric;

Nice project and a beautiful boat. Yes, carvel planking is not the best when the boat is in and out of the water a great deal. I would recommend strip planking or lapstrake although strip is easier for the novice builder but lapstrake is prettier. Here's a site where you can get some information from those doing it Haven 12 1/2 Builders Site . Good luck and send pictures------gary

question: In one of your comments you suggested 3M 5200 might be used to advantage as luting between strips when building or repairing a cedar strip planked hull. Is that because there is some "give" in 3M 5200 and the hull can swell without cracking something? Is it a good compound to use between strips? I was planning on using a resorcinol glue because one source told me it has some minor gap filling qualities. I'm undecided.

A boat builder in New Oreleans told me a couple of years ago that the 3M 5200 was awful hard to clean up after using it to bulding some pirogues and plywoodboats but otherwise he loves it.

Jay Becker

Jay;

Yes I did suggest using 5200 when applying a spline to a an existing carvel planked seam because it is flexible but in strip construction you are actually forming a solid inflexible structure by gluing , epoxying, the strips together. You want no flexing here and a thick epoxy glue is what you want to use. And yes, 5200 is extremely messy and difficult to work with and its uses are just limited to forming a flexible bond that will never come apart which on a boat is not such a good thing because having pieces easily come apart is what makes a wood boat repairable. So, if you ever have a use for it, keep its limitations in mind.-----gary

question: I'm building a 21' ''Handy Billy,'' as shown in WoodenBoat Mag. Mine is presently framed and beveled, ready for planking. Would like to use three layers of 1/4" red cedar. First two layers double diagonal, sealed with epoxy. Third (outer) layer longitudinal red cedar (essentially strip planking). Then epoxied and fbrglassed outside only. Is that a useful technique? Handy Billy is hard-chine, v-bottom. I'll likely include a small cuddy cabin, rather than the open launch profile. Thanks.... Jim G.

Jim;

Nice choice in a boat to build. Actually the process you describe is called cold molding, strip planking is when approximately 1 inch square strips are stacked, often tongue and groove, glued and edge nailed. Normally these 2 building methods are used with soft chine boats and ones with multiple compound curves but not usually used with hard chine boats. These designs are carvel planked or done with plywood. For home building , plywood is the preferred method both for strength and ease of construction plus it is compatible with fiberglass. The cold molding method as compared to plywood, although also fiberglass compatible , is much more labor intensive and expensive, plus if you ever have to repair damage to the hull, it is hell. Please ask more as needed.

Good luck-------gary

question: Hi,

Iam building a sprey 28 steel , and i am wondering what is the best way to join sheets of ply together to form a bulkhead. I shall have to join and glue these sections of ply inside the boat as te cabin opening will not be large enough to allow a full width bulkhead . I will be using 19 mm ply , can i scarf join each section together, or is it better to lap , butt or otherwise.
on 19 mm ply what would you suggest for the size of the scarf , or other type of joint and what type of glue.
Regards

John

John;

Part of the issue with bulk head construction is how much structural support they need to provide for the hull. With a steel boat I doubt if they supply a great deal of structural support , so how you construct them may depend more on convenience than strength. If I was after strength I would epoxy glue two 9 mm sheets of ply staggering the joints by a couple of feet and have at least a one foot overlap at the joints. You can screw the 2 sheets together while the glue sets and either leave them in or remove them. If you are to use a single 19 mm sheet I would butt the joints with butterfly keys and fiberglass the joints with at least 6 in fiberglass tape on both sides. Scarfing ply is very difficult and the scarfing ratio should be 12 to 1 meaning for 19 mm ply you need about a 12 inch scarf.. Check the drawing for a visual-------hope this helps. Good luck, ask more if needed-----g

Hi ,

thanks for the information on bulkheads, this has helped a lot.
If you don't mind I have another inquiry (this time concerning fitting port
lights /windows to the steel cabin sides. The boat has been sand blasted an fully painted with epoxy paints.)
I have cut five openings each side of the cabin each 475mm by 225mm, these
are for the portholes.
I will be using smoked uv resistant laminated glass . the glass thickness
is 10mm thick.
I am going to use sixaflex to set the glass on to the side of the cabin.
The glass will be 25mm greater than the cabin cut-out to allow for enough sikaflex to ensure proper attachment(the sixaflex is all that will be
attaching the glass to the side of the cabin.
Do you think I have allowed enough in the 25mm overlap?, as the glass will
have a bit of weight at that thickness.
I shall be supporting each piece until the sixaflex has cured then removing
the temporary supports. Each piece of glass shall rely solely on the adhesion of the sikaflex .
Also could I go down in the glass thickness and still have adequate strength.
I have thought of using plexiglass and attaching in the same manner as above
but I am concerned about the ease of scratching and also the eventual discolouring over time from UV

Regards

JOHN

John;

If you are going to just rely on an adhesive to hold the glass to the hull, I would do a little research and find out what would be the best adhesive on glass and steel. I know 3m 5200 is a better adhesive than Sikaflex but there may be others as well. I would tend to want to secure the glass mechanically as well, possibly by through bolting a frame that clamps the glass plus it looks nice if done in mahogany or teak. When you are taking big breaking seas over your glass ports, you'll want all the security you can get. Also I would not scrimp on the glass thickness. As I think about it, I would be remiss not to emphasize the importance of sandwiching the glass port in a bolted on frame structure, if for no other reason, than to trust any adhesive to bond two such dissimilar materials as glass and steel is foolhardy, and your life could depend on it.------------g

question: Good afternoon, Sir -

I am building my very first small wooden sailboat, and have a question regarding boat measurements for cutting out the side and bottom of the boat from a few pieces of 4x8 sheets of plywood. The measurements are stated from the bottom, chine, and sheer, in stations marked 1 through 9. The problem is, the measurements don't seem to add up anywhere. My question is, how do I read the measurements? The boat design comes from John Gardner's "Building Classic Small Craft."

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Chris

Chris;

I'd have to see the plans you're working from to answer your
specific question but normally measurements at any station are taken from
either a center line or waterline which are level stright line references.
When one lofts the building lines these are the first lines set
down.-------g

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BUYING A WOOD BOAT 20

question: Hi Gary,

Great site. Your love of wooden boats is evident, and excellent.

Looking at a 1960 Sparkman&Stephens. It's been in fresh water for 25-30 years. Lots of rot in mahogany planking above waterline. Canvas over plywood deck is shot.

Don't know condition of teak planking below waterline. Boat has great historical value.

Also, I have an uncle to help in restoration, who is a very skillful woodworker/boatbuilder. "Wood is the only way to go", he says. But he hasn't, yet, seen this boat.

It is, currently, floating. I can pick it up for $2500.00.

Any suggestions?

Thanks, Scott , Seattle

Scott;

Quality builder equals quality boat. All wood boats are restorable
just depends on ones time and money and skill set. I would check the
structural members, ribs, floor timbers, deck beams etc, to see how
extensive the problems are, but in general the only rule is if you take it
on you are the steward of its future and there is a wooden boat hell for
those who take on rebuild projects and don't finish them. Seriously, the
only question would be your level of commitment .Try to get the price
down----Be glad to help with advice once you start the restoration------gary

ps--you must love the process as much as the outcome.

Gary,

Get the boat reduced, in price, from 25 hundred? I'll give it a shot.

So, how long can a guy leave this boat out of the water, while restoring, without getting into too much trouble?

Would best-case be, to make below-the-waterline sound, asap; then; finish in a marina?

Thanks, Scott

Yes, that's best case, but in reality doing in the water work takes twice as long. How the boat will respond over an extended period out of the water depends on a lot of factors but the worst case scenario where the bottom planks seams open up can be dealt with by simply filling those seams with some roof patch tar which will be squeezed out as the planks swell when the boat is launched. She would be swelled tight within a week. To do this kind of rebuild you need a dry space and a committed amount of time-----------g

I found your page looking for information on East German folkboats.
As you doubtless know the Folkboat buffs sneer at these as they are
strip-planked and have a habitable cabin, you wouldn't think twice
about it if you hadn't already seen a clinker Nordic one with the low
coachroof!!

I think the ballast keel is just bolted on as normal, it is on very
other Folkboat I've seen!! I'd be more surprised if it's got a
complete set of frames!! I've just walked away from a lovely teak
one, built by Clare Lallow in Cowes, almost every frame broken!!
Worse, he's let the boat stand in the yard for 2 years under a dark
blue plastic cover, it's so dry it could self-combust!! As a result
the splined seams on the sunny side have broken the glue line and you
can see daylight through them!!
I'm going to buy an East German one, they are very well made, albeit
strip planked with questionable glue and brass screws, but it's
lasted 50 years already and the hull is as fair as you'd like!! They
aren't worth much, but then no Folkboat is except a GRP racing Nordic
one!!
You had another letter from a guy in Cornwall who thought he had a
7/8 version of a Folkboat with a 3 piece mast? He's probably got a
Spartan, Alan Buchanan design just as he described, a 23' Folkboat!!
Personally if he wants to go sailing I'd buy a new alloy masthead
rig with slab reefing boom, wouldn't be expensive and you wouldn't be
waiting for the mast to come crashing down every time it blew a bit!!
And you'd be sailing that much sooner!!
Good site, useful information although I do worry about the questions
people ask, I just hope they don't get on too well , finish the boat
and go to sea, they seem to have a frightening lack of knowledge
about boats in general and wooden boats in particular!!
Keep up the good work!

David Scott

Dave;

Thanks for the cudos and as you read the folkboat is one of my
favorites and there were many on SanFransisco Bay where I sailed for many
years.Strip planked boats are a bitch to repair but make a very strong hull
and they can be fiberglassed over to add years more of use. Send me a photo
when you get yours--------g

question: hi gary i was thinking of buying a 1966 trojan f32 wood boat the boat is solid but needs refinishing price 9000$ cdn my plan is to keep her for many years i have 1000 question on how to do it but my first question is the boat being 40 yrs is there much life left in her i heard wood boat will wear out 30 -40 yrs hope to hear from you Derek

Derek;

Wood boats can last a very long time if taken care of. There's a couple
schooners is our harbor that are well over 100yrs old albeit a good
percentage of their timber has been replaced but that is the advantage of a
wood boat, they are built to be fixed. Being a novice however, you should
have a survey done on the boat so you know what you may be infor over time.
One piece of advice, to own a wooden boat you must either have a pocket
full of money or like working on the boat as much as using it.--------gary

question: Hi Gary

This is going to sound kind of odd, but here goes.

I am looking at purchasing a wooden hull boat in the 40 - 50 foot range. I have my eye on a couple at the moment. Whatever I get will be a project boat and I anticipate 5 years or more before she sees the water. I am looking at wood hulls simply because of purchase price. A comparable glass hull is significantly more expensive. I do not however want a wooden hull. This will be a live aboard and cruiser and I do not want the maintenance involved in maintaining a wooden hull. Additionally, I want maximum resale value.

So, here is my question. Have you ever heard of anyone completely stripping off a wood hull right down to the frames - stringers and constructing a new hull of fibreglass. My thinking is that I would strip the interior down, pull the engines, and cradle her upside down. Then pull the planking and transom. I would then "sister" the existing wooden frames with foam coring - leaving a small space between the wood and foam core - extending the foam beyond the wood frames to compensate for the thickness of the removed planking. I would then glass the foam frames. Next, I would run lathe strips the length of the hull (attached to glass frames) to provide support for the hull coring. I would core it (1/2" probably), glass and finish the exterior, set her upright and glass and finish the interior. The old wooden framing and stringers would then be removed leaving me with glass and foamcore hull and structure.

I have the location and time to do this, and estimate my costs at around $30,000. I would bring in a naval architect prior to starting to have him identify any necessary structural changes and confirm the materials that I plan to use.

I know this will be a hell of a lot of work. But when I crunch the numbers, it seems to make a lot of sense. A brand new 40 - 50 foot glass hull for under $45,000 based on the purchase price of some of the boats I am looking at. I can't find anything like that on the market right now.

Am I a complete lunatic, or is this feasable.

Thanks, Mike

Mike;

Yes, you are a lunatic but great deeds are not accomplished by the normal. Here , in Maine, many old wooden lobster boats have been glassed over and are given a new life. To do this successfully they must build up a glass hull over the wooden one, basically using the original hull as a plug, but in this case they leave the plug intact. You could do the same with a wood hull without doing all the extra work of removing the wood structure after it is glassed. Although this method elongates the boats life it does not necessarily increase its resale value by much. If I were you I would look for a salvage hull the size you want and fix it. With all the hurricane damage from last year there are all kinds of salvage boats for sale, boats the insurance companies have written off as unfixable. You can do a lot of fixin for $30,000. Check out this site http://www.yachtsalvage.com/list.htm-----good luck and keep me up to date on living out your "crazy" dream------gary

question: I am considering purchasing a wooden boat currently located on the coast in the northeast. She is 65' LOA with a whopping 23' beam. She's constructed of 2" solid mahogany, single planked. Her owner has taken meticulous care of her and is selling her due to health reasons. If I purchase this vessel, I will be moving her to the warm Caribbean waters of the Virgin Islands, and have a couple of questions: (1) What is the best defense against worms; is there any particular anti-fouling paint that is better than another? or is there some other method I should use? and (2) I'm told she's a railway haulout vessel. I'm not completely sure whether that's because she's so heavy (50 tons) and wooden, or whether it's due to her beam. Suppose I find a travel lift that can accommodate her beam - what happens if she's lifted in slings rather than on a railway? The worm issue - I really need to get a handle on that; the haulout issue - really just a curiosity thing. Thank!
s. Ang

Interesting boat. The ultimate worm protection for a wood boat is copper sheathing the entire bottom. Although it is costly, it lasts a long time and guarantees protection. As far as paint is concerned, the one with the highest copper content works the best and diligence on the owners part that any exposed surface from scrapes or scratches especially along the waterline are quickly painted over and in a tropical climate the bottom should be repainted at least twice a year. When you add up this cost over a few years, copper sheathing could be a deal. There are huge travelifts out there, especially in Floridad, and when lifting a larger vessel they usually use 4 straps instead of 2 to spread out the load-----gary.

question: I am dreaming about buying an older wooden boat, like a Matthews in the 40ft range from the 1950 to 1960's, but I have no concept about the approximate yearly maintence on such a boat. My wife and I have an excellent income but are not independently wealthy. I would be willing to send some significant money to have such a beautiful craft, but I would just like to know how big of a finacial whole a may be digging? I have some wood working skill but because I am busy at work I would want to estimate professional maintence before I got involved.

Other than a survey or three, what else would I have to be careful of prior to purchase? Thank you, Tod A. Brown, M.D.

Tod;

I appreciate your desire, a Mathews is a good choice, and if you have the money for the initial purchase you are in good shape. The important part is to start with a wood boat in excellent condition, determined by a surveyor. Wooden boats aren't exceptionally expensive to maintain if you keep up with it but a year or two of abuse and catching back up is very costly. As a wooden boat owner you must enjoy working on the boat as much as using it or have the financial resources to hire professionals.The actual cost depends on particulars like how much bright work there is to keep up. Also as an owner of a traditional wooden vessel you have a unique obligation as a steward to pass on that vessel in as good or better condition than when received. I am sure there is a special place in hell for those who let a wooden boat in their care deteriorate beyond hope. Good luck with your search and feel free to ask more as needed--------gary

question: Dear Sir,

I am thinking of buying a 53 ft. Pacemaker Motor Yacht (1965). It needs complete wood restoration to make it sea worthy. There is a large hole in one side and you can see through the planks when on deck. Can you offer me any assistance on to whom to contact to assist me with this project?

Lee Ashley----Long Island, NY

LEE.

Unless you have a bunch of money burning a hole in your pocket, I suggest looking for a boat in better condition. If you choose to persist get a good wooden boat surveyor to have a look at it.--------gary

Hi Gary,
I am new to the wood sailboat scene so I apologize for my ignorance. A
swing keel 1939 36ft wood sailboat sloop is the what I have been
thinking and preoccupied about. The designer is Frederick Geiger, and
builder was Morris Johnson of Bay Head N.J. The boat has a diesel Water
Mota Sea Panther engine.
At this point I am asking is what are the critical elements I need to
look at in inspecting this boat.

General outside inspection:

1. The wood above the waterline appears fine. There appears to be some
rust mark. It needs repainting.
2. The mast looks solid (made of wood I don't know what type) and tall
with rigging in place (goose neck, forward and aft stringers?, runner,
side rigs, spreaders).
3. I walked on the deck and it appears solid. Some areas have cracks. I
am not sure if the floor was covered with fiberglass?
4. The original port holes look fine. There are areas where paint is
peeling. But floor does not seem to flex.
5. The hatch rim s look fine, some loss of varnish.
6. The stanchion feel solid, the bow pulpit moves a bit.

Cockpit

1. I looked below the cockpit into the back transom, it looks dry and
wood appears clean and solid.
2. The engine looks dirty, greasy and rusty at some parts. The mounts
and wood area around looks solid.
3. The area around where the shaft goes out of the boat looks old. No
water is dripping down. Looks that shaft has not been rotated for
awhile.

Inside

1. The inside definitely needs work. The cabinets were moved around, and
some trims were taken out.
2. The floor planking was removed.
3. I am trying to examine the lower hull for structural integrity. There
is some water but it appears to be coming from the outside going inside
and down the mast and crack above.
4. There are spars? going from each side to the center. There is a
center keel that appears to be darker wood than the other?
5. Some big fat bolts and nuts around this beam or through it?
6. The bilge section toward the back underneath the engine looks fine
with some water.
7. The mast goes down to the hull. It appears solid.
8. The forward section V berth looks dry and fine.
9. The toilet has a pump.
10 I tried examining the water intakes and the valves. I did not try to
turn them incase water started coming in and I couldn't stop it
afterwards.
11. Side of the wall appear dry and solid.
12. I am not sure how the swing keel works. But there is a center table.
The leaves fall side words. A cable from above deck comes down a brass
tube?

Engine

1. The engine has been sitting around for 3 years. The marina said it
was winterized.
2. There appeared to be some water in the oil?
3. The starter is dead so they are trying to get another.
I'll have to see if they can get it to start.
The boat was lifted up last year for cleaning and the marina people said
the hull was fine, and paint was also fine.
Anyway please comment freely about what I have said, especially about
critical wood areas of the boat. I am concerned for instance about the
back section where the shaft comes in. I am afraid the wood might pop
out and water comes in?
If you can answer before Friday would be great since I have to make a
decision by then.
Thanks.
J.B

JB
Certainly sounds like an interesting boat. I would guess it has a centerboard rather than a swing keel for they are rarely found on wooden boats. My best advice is to get a surveyor to check the boat out or at least pay a local boat carpenter to go over the boat. You say you are a wooden boat novice but you have done a commendable inspection of the boat. From what you report, the boat sounds fine and depending on the price may be a good deal. If you can't do what I suggest above, you should acquire a small wood mallet and tap on any areas of the boat that look suspicious. If the wood is sound you will here a high pitched sound, if there is a problem such as rot or delaminated plywood you will here a non resonating thud. Remember fresh water causes rot not salt water so the bottom of the boat is probably sound. You should also be aware that buying a wooden boat changes your life forever. You will fall in love but wood boats are demanding partners and you must enjoy working on them as much as sailing them. Got to www.google.com and type in Geiger sloop. Good luck and I will be glad to answer any specific questions.----------------gary
Ps. On the inside keelson the big fat bolts are probably keel boats, tap them with a metal hammer and hopefully they will ring rather than thud.

Gary,
Thanks so much for your lightning reply (much appreciated!).
With your experience. What price for this boat is Not a good deal (being
conservative and assuming worst case scenario)? Above $10k?, or $5k?
Is $3k a good deal?
Thanks!
JB

JB
If you can buy a sound professionally built 36ft wood sailboat less than 50 yrs old for under 10 thousand you have a good deal even if it needs some work. Over 10 you would have to consider how much more you would have to spend to make it A-1.
Of course a lot has to do with what you plan to do with the boat, there is a big difference in demand on the boat between a little coastal cruising versus deep water extensive cruising. But for $10,000 or under you can make a mistake and probably recoup your money. If you can get it for 3,000 it's worth it even if you would use it as a front yard decoration.----------------gary

question: Hey Gary,

I'm considering purchasing an 1965 H-28 with glass over strip planked cedar. The deck and hull have been glassed over. There is some soft spots on the deck. How does one go about fixing it with the glass over wood? Can you remove glass from wood entirely? Also, can you recommend a boat carpenter for the east coast of Florida?

Thanks so much for your time,
Amy

AMY;
I am jealous, I've been looking for an H-28 myself. Glass over strip planking is pretty standard and usually causes little problem but glass over wood decks can be a real pain in the butt. When fresh water sneaks between the wood and glass you get rot which manifests itself as soft spots in the deck. The only way to fix such problems is to determine the extent of the rot and cut it out and replace with new wood. To remove glass from good wood you must grind it off, a horrible job and not necessary if there is a good bond. I am not knowledgeable about boat carpenters in the Florida area but I do know you have to be careful who you hire. Hang out at a local boatyard and see who others have used and are pleased with. I hope you get the boat, it is one of Herrshoffs best designs, a true big little boat. Hope this helped, feel free to ask more------gary

question: Greetings,
I recently beat up my keel on some rocks. Upon inspection I found that the bow of the boat, if not all of the boat, is filled with foam and it is wet all the way up to the floorboards. The fiberglass repair is easy enough, but I believe I need to remove the foam to avoid rotting. Do I need to fill the boat up with new foam when I'm done? What is the purpose of foam in the bottom? What do you recommend if I must replace the foam? Also, we'll have to cut out the floor to get to the foam - any recommendations on waterproofing it once we put new wood down?

Hi
I am not sure exactly what wood you are replacing, if it is part of the hull it should be sealed with penetrating epoxy and fiberglassed in place. The foam is mainly a space filler and provides some minimal support. You can get water proof blue board foam at your local home building supplier or you can get a 2 part expanding foam which is tricky to use. Basically the name of the game is to keep the fresh water out so rot does not get into the wood. Ask more as needed------ be as specific as possible------good luck-----gary

Greetings Gary,
Thanks for much for your speedy reply. I have a keel with two angular
breeches caused by a rock. It's a 1971 SeaSwirl boat that's in good
condition otherwise. When I drilled through the floorboards above the hole
in the keel I found a good solid fiberglass floor with plywood underneath
and then wet foam. The wood was totally soaked. I figure the entire boat,
if not separated by stringers, is likely soaked. So, I'm thinking I need to
cut out floorboard completely, pull all the foam, grind down the edges, make
sure the stringers are ok and rebuild if not, patch the keel with fiberglass
from the inside as well as the outside, fill it with foam, treat new plywood
with acetone and resin and reseat and glass it over, install the carpet and
do touch up paint and I'm done...Does that sound like what I need to do for
such a job? If I don't pull it all out I'm concerned that it will rot.
What's tricky about the 2 part foam - can't you just cut away what you don't
need if it comes up too much?
Please tell me more about the epoxy as well. Right now I have fiberglass
materials with a resin mix and catalyst but don't know anything about the
expoxy.
Thank You!
Ken

Ken:
Your procedure sounds right on. The resin you have is probably polyester which is fine and is no doubt what was used throughout the boat. Epoxy is much more expensive.The penetraring epoxy [ see www.rotdoctor.com]I refer to is very thin and saturates solid wood much more than polyester but is also compatable with polyester so you can coat the wood with penetrating epoxy, let it dry, then glass over it with polyester. If all you are using is plywood , the penetrating epoxy is not necessary, neither is the acetone which is mainly used on oily woods before glassing. The 2 part foam is fine unless you are putting it in a confined space where its excess expansion would cause a problem. Make sure it is a closed cell foam so it won't absorb water Plus, find out where the water came from in the first place-------------gary

question: Mr. Wheeler,

I am a woodworker, but have no experience with wooden boats.
I hope to retire soon to Florida and have been told about a circa 1967 lapstrake, mahogany hull 34'cruiser made by Ulrichsen.
It is being used as liveaboard in a slip.
I am told by it's owner the hull is sound but has some broken ribs due to yearly dry storage and needs work around the port garboard area to seal up a leak before embarking on a cruise.
Rather than buying a home, I thought this could be an inexpensive way to get start out. The price of the boat seems very, very low. Slip rent is $325.00 per month.

Could I be getting in over my head?
Thank for any advice,

Mike
.

Mike;

Sounds like you are in for some changes, good ones. The first thing to find out is when the boat was last hauled and had new bottom paint. A wood boat especially in Florida must be protected from the wood eating toredo worms which means good antifouling paint applied yearly. If it hasn't been painted recently you must haul it and check the bottom for worm damage. Also, equally important is that the underwater sacrificial zincs have been kept in good shape for they protect the fastenings below the waterline from electrolysis. If it has been regularly painted and zincs maintained any structural problems you will have no problem learning how to fix. Florida's climate is hell on wood boats, heat and moisture, rots friends. You must have good air circulation to keep the rot spores from developing.--- Hope this helps and I hope you get the boat and star enjoying life on the water. Feel free to ask more-----g

question: hallo gary.

i am an young guy trafelling in south-america,and i found a 45 feet

philip rhodes sloop for an preety good price,but there is a lot to work on her.as it is my dream since years to own my own sailboat,

i realy think about buying her.so i have a bit an idea of wooden boats

but actually i don´t know nothing about double planked hulls

(honduras mahagony,silicon brass screwd)

so my question is what i specialy have to look for at inspecting an double planked hulland where the rot starts in there,another question is as she is moored in south-america since some years with an prety old paintjob underneath,

what is the easyest and best way to find out whether she got worms?

thanks a lot.andreas

Andreas:

Sounds like an interesting boat but if it needs considerable work beyond cosmetics you must decide how much time and $ your willing to put in. First you need someone who knows wooden boats to look at her, preferably out of the water, and give you an overall analysis of her condition. I can't tell you how to do this but I will say the best way to expose wood rot and worm damage is to tap the suspect area with a hammer and if you get a solid sound good enough, but if you get a hollow or dead thud sound you have a problem. Toredo worms usually bore small holes in the planks or dead wood and eat out the inner core without ever returning to the surface of the wood, that's why sounding is the only way to tell if there is damage. Good luck but remember the definition of a boat can be " a hole in the water into which you throw money"---gary

question: How can I check for ship worm in a wooden hull the boat is in the water unforunately in the Med. and i dont know if there are any facilities for lifting out of water. The owner say's hull is in good condition but I would like to check somehow.

Regards Dougie

Dougie;

Usually there is little external indication that Toredo worms have entered the hull for often the entry point is pinhole in size. Once entering the wood the worm travels with the grain eating out a sizable tunnel and growing all the time which can virtually hollow out the timber with no indication of this on the woods surface. The only way I know of testing for worm damage is to sound the hull with a hammer listening for the hollow sound given off by the damaged wood. Unfortunately this sounding must be done with the outside of the hull exposed which means either hauling the vessel or careening it at a low tide, a problem in the Med where tides are slight. Personally I would not purchase a wood hull that has been in worm inhabited water without thoroughly inspecting the hull. Good luck-----------gary

question: Hello Gary,
We are looking into buying a wood boat. We are new to wooden boats and are unsure of the maintenance. Everyone always says that there is so much more on wooden than anyother type. Please educate us on a good maintenance schedule. The boat has been replanked but not yet caulked or painted. Once these are done what would be required to keep it in good condition? We appreciate such a great resource for information on wooden boats. Thanks, John & Sarah Hale
.
.

Sarah & John;

Actually, a wooden boat in good condition doesn't require a
lot more maintenance than other types. Besides hull topside painting
every few years and depending on the amount of bright work to be
varnished, the cost and time involved is pretty similar. The difference
arises when maintenance is not kept up. A fiberglass boat can sit for
years uncovered exposed to the weather and basically not suffer any
real damage. A wood boat, however, will deteriorate very quickly if the
wood is left unprotected and exposed to fresh water which harbors the
rot spores. So, in owning a wood boat you make a commitment to keep it
maintained and if you can't, sell it before deterioration sets in. The
little extra work involved is well worth it, the feel of a wood boat in
the water is so incredibly superior to other materials that the
attention required merely adds to the pleasure. It is important that
you enjoy the maintenance work or have the funds to pay others to do
it for, if not, it is only a matter of time before the maintenance
slides and great effort and money will be required to bring the boat
back to pristine condition. One great quality of wooden boats is that
they are made to be fixed because it is understood that wood has a
certain lifespan and overtime much of the wood on a old wood boat will
have been replaced. Also, finally, you should know, there is a wooden
boat hell for those that let their vessels deteriorate to the point of
no return. If you decide to take the wooden boat plunge feel free to
ask as many questions as you need, there is much to learn, although
there is one simple dictum and truth----maintain and repair a wooden
boat using the same materials and traditional methods that were used to
build it in the first place------gary
.
.
Gary,

We are very grateful and impressed with the super fast and wonderful advice.
Thank you! Your web site deserves special honors. It is very informative and
will serve as a major reference for us. We appreciate your words of
encouragement. We were feeling like this boat was right for us but then came
all the warnings and scary stories. We forget if we mentioned the boat we
are looking into. It is a 75' Herreschoff. We are flying out in a week to
check it out. It has been replanked but needs to be caulked and painted. We
are very adventures, hard working and above average intelligence. Our desire
is to do the work ourselves. One to save money and two for the experience
and knowledge. In your opinion, should a job this big be attempted by
inexperienced people? Is it something that can be completely fouled up
easily? What would be the best book to start with in preparing for such a
project. Have you written a book? If so what is the name of it.

Again, We are grateful for you advice and will most assuredly be back in
touch with you for more of your expertise and advice.

Ever so grateful,
John & Sarah Hale
.

Sarah;

Thanks for the compliments on the site, no book so far. Your
potential future boat sounds great, what model Herreschoff is it? One
of the most important tasks in a rebuild of carvel planked wooden boat
is the seam caulking with cotton and or oakum. This should be done by
an experienced caulker for if it is done too loose the boat works too
much and leaks, too tight and the planks will buckle because they can't
swell. If you can't afford a pro to do it all, at least hire one to
teach you what and what not to do. Also, since it sounds like wooden
boats are new to you, find an experienced hand to look over the boat
with you to verify its condition. I don't know your intentions with
such a boat, but a 75 footer with 2 people is a bit much to handle,
even a Herreschoff. Where is it located? Let me know how it
goes.------gary
.

question: Gary,
I'm considering the purchase of a 1970 42' Pacemaker Sport Fisher. She's been out of the water now for approx. 1+ year. I'm planning on totally re-caulking the bottom and repainting the bottom. After what I've read in your replies, I will leave the cotton alone. I have several questions: I'm pretty careful about what I do so, how long should she take on water after I launch her, and how much should she leak. I'm a little nervous about launching her, cliombing onboard, looking in the bilge and screaming "oh, my God get her back out quick". As a side note this is quite an adventure I'm undertaking I live in Achorage Alaska and the boat is on the East coast. So, I will work on her all winter 'til spring, cruise her down through the Panama Canal up the West coast, through the Inside Passage , across the Gulf Of alaska, and finally home to Seward. She'll work as a salmon charter boat from there. Lots of work but, lots of fun, too...great site great knowledge - Thanks J.P.
.

Thanks for the compliment on the site. Pacemaker's are good boats and
even one out of the water for 14 years should be OK if it was properly
supported and protected from fresh water. Assuming this is the case,
your recaulk plan is correct although I would find a way to swell the
planks a bit before you apply new seam compound. Stapling cloths or
foam to the bottom and keeping it damp for a couple weeks would help
immensely. Also, although I think your trip plans are noble and
adventurous, the practical aspects of fuel costs and wear and tear on
the boat may outweigh these and lead you more to the practical
alternative of using the travel money to have the boat trucked or
shipped by ship to your home and work on it there, or look for a
similar vessel closer to home. But sometimes Dreams are more important
than practical sense. To your point, when you launch the boat have a
good 110 submersible pump available for backup, also have a bag of
sawdust which can be dumped into the water and swirled about with
paddle so it sinks and temporarily clogs the leaky seams and the leaks
should halve themselves every 24 hrs and completely stop in 5-7 days.
Leaks beyond that time would have to be attended to. Good
luck-------gary
.
question: Gary,
Well, I'm back again with more questions. I had the 1970 42' Pacemaker
Sportfisher looked at by a marine surveyor. His report goes like this: there are some cracked planks, the transom has some rot and probably needs some planks replaced, the skeg has partially pulled away from the keel (he said he'd never seen that before), she has leaked diesel into the hold and right out the bottom onto the ground, (so you can tell the dryness of the hull), he also said the boatyard where she is stored had to move the braces due to them starting to "crush". Is this boat a loss or, if I can get it cheap enough could it be fixed in say 6 mos. of labor? I know this is a hard guess on your part. Thanks again for your time and knowledge... J.P.
.
.
J.P.

The bottom line is that a wooden boat is built so it can be fixed,
whether to take on such a project depends on ones skill ,
ones wallet and ones passion for a particular boat. This boat has
problems but certainly sounds fixable in a reasonable amount of time.
Many of the problems are do to shrinkage from the boat drying out.
Cracks in planks caused by shrinkage usually crack along the grain and
will swell closed when wetted out. This applies to the separated skeg
as well. The problem from the boat stands usually will correct itself
once the boat is back in the water unless the keel itself has been
badly bent or broken. Most older power boats have spot rot around the
transom because fresh water finds its way from the deck behind the
transom planks and into the corners where the framing is and causes
rot. All very fixable. The real expensive problem areas can lie in the
shaft logs , engine beds, tanks and engines but fortunately, from what
you said, your surveyor found no problems there. Doing the work needed
will take a commitment of time and money but it is important not to
begin unless you can finish, boatyards are full of half finished
projects started with dreams and good intentions but failed because
"shit happens". Hope this helps but I know better than most that when
it comes to buying an older wooden boat, practicality and common sense
often go by the wayside. Let me know how it plays out----gary
.

question: gary, I am a first time sailboat buyer, and carpenter. I have looked at a Blanchard 33 sloop. Ten were built in the '40's. Stem and ribs are oak, keel and deadwood fir, planking red cedar with plywood decks. The fastenings are Everdur, whatever that is. This boat seems largely original. The motor, a volvo D2 is out of her. She's in the water here in the Pacific Northwest. Here's my amatuer survey. Mast totally rebuilt in the last five years. Hull watertight (in the slip). Some rust spots from planking fasteners above the waterline. The original plywood deck had 3/8 ply attached over it, then the whole deck and coachroof was epoxied and painted. The sails come with it, they sound intact but tired. The head is a rebuilt raritan, there is a diesel stove the owner said was of quality, but I can't remember the brand. No electronics. There is no obvious damage or leaking anywhere, the current owner has her hauled and painted every four years, and she is due now for this work. The cockpit is huge, and hence not as much room below as one would expect from 33'. The price is around 5k. I can feel the draw of a wood boat, it's sucking me in. It sounds like a deal. If it passed a professional survey, what do you think? Ed
.

Ed;
Even just with your own "unprofessional survey" the boat sounds
worth the money, although you might look closer at the deck and check
more thoroughly what the 3/8 ply is covering over. But since it is your
first wood boat and you have carpentry skills and all wooden boats are
made to fix, you're in a pretty good place to have such a first boat.
Actually if one of your goals is to learn wooden boat restoration, this
one may be too good. Probably the most important deciding factor should
be whether or not the design fits what you want to do with the boat.
If it's for day sailing and short cruises, fine enough, but if you want
it for longer trips and off shore work , look elsewhere, a big cockpit
is great for inshore sailing with friends, but is an accident waiting
to happen off shore. Good luck, owning a wooden boat and being a good
steward to it, is one of life's true joys. Ask more as needed----gary

question: Gary, I really appreciate your prompt and informative response regarding the Blanchard 33 I'm looking at. I went back and had another look over the boat. I noticed some water on one of the bunks and concluded that it must have come from a crack in the epoxy now covering the ply deck. What repair would this entail? The lower layer of ply decking is totally exposed in the cabin and I could find no rot. Also, is there any way to determine the shape of the plank fasteners without pulling one? Maybe I'm looking for something that would indicate their condition. I don't think the owner would like me pulling one. Would a surveyor be able to determine this? I've enclosed a drawing of the Blanchard 33. My assessment of the cockpit being huge was just a novice speculating. If you could take a look and see if she would be, by design, fit for offshore sailing. Thanks again for being so generous with your knowledge, if it weren't for this site I would be feeling alon!

g in the dark. Ed -whoops, the drawing didn't paste. maybe these specs could tell you something.

Classic Day Sails

As far as we know, nine hulls were built on the Blanchard 33 mold. A tenth may have been produced as a yawl. Currently five of these lovely sloops are known to exist today. The whereabouts of one is unknown. The other three are Vagabond, Seawind and Varuna. Two have reportedly been sailed to Hawaii. And one of these was reported as a derelict in a yard in Hilo. The last one, hull number five, is perhaps best known for her travels up and down Puget Sound under the meticulous ownership, and steady hand, of her owner Ward Fay.

Aura was first owned by a well off family who hailed from Arizona. They decided they wanted to go yachting and made arrangements with Norm Blanchard for one of the 33 foot sloops which they named Aira. They owned her for five years, sailing her in the summer, and returning her to Norm Blanchard during the 'off season.' This family then sold Aira to Norm Blanchard (who mortgaged his house for her) with the stipulation that he change her name, which he did. Now named the Aura she was owned and enjoyed by Norm from 1952 to 1977. He then reluctantly sold her.

In the intervening years she has had a series of good owners who have kept her in great condition. She has had new floors, frames and planking around the mast step. She has also had minor changes to her cockpit, with fuel tanks located below her main cabin settees.

Waterline length

24'

Length on deck

33' 3"

Length overall

36'

Beam

8' 9"

Draft

Ballast 4,150 lbs

Displacement 10,300 lbs

Working sail area 500 square feet

Engine Fresh-water cooled Atomic 4 (gas)

'Yachting' Magazine, April 1949

The Blanchard 33, from the Blanchard Boat Co., from designs by William Garden is a new stock one-design auxiliary cruising sloop, the first few of which have proved to be smart and able cruising boats. Requirements were quarters for four, with six feet of headroom, enclosed toilet, coal range in the galley, and a boat that could be built economically in quantity. Stem and ribs are oak; keel and deadwood, fir; planking, red cedar; decks, plywood; trim, Honduras mahogany; and fastenings, Everdur. She has a 4150-lb iron keel.

No problem with the questions, I enjoy sharing my experience from messing about with wooden boats. I went to the same site you did (http://www.classicdaysails.com/Pages/TheAura.html) and by her lines she certainly appears to be an adequate coastal cruiser and there would be little to fear in a seaway. Make sure there are cockpit drains. You can just fill the ply crack with an epoxy paste but the wet bunk could be from condensation rather than a leak, which leads to an important point, the most significant factor in the survival of a wood boat over time is adequate fresh air circulation throughout the inside of the hull.

The best way to check the condition of any wooded area on a boat is by sounding it, by tapping the wood with the handle end of a screwdriver . A sharp solid sound indicates healthy wood, a soft or dead sound indicates problems, rot, fastening failure, ply separation or electrolysis damage. This is how a surveyor would test the soundness of the hull. Also on this boat having an iron keel and probably steel keel bolts, it is important to sound out these bolts as well to get an indication of there condition. Also, Everdur fastening are pretty resistant to deterioration but can be weakened by electrolysis below the waterline. Considering your newness to the wooden boat scene, it would be worth the money to have a survey done so you can have some definitive answers to your concerns. From what I see, its a good deal--------g

question: I keep asking this question to myself, "Why not a Ketch?" I love the design but don't see many on the Great Lakes. Can you give me a why or why not a ketch would be a great boat for the Great lakes? The boat I have in mind is a Person 365. Thank you. Lorenzo

P.S. boating betty is my wife!

Lorenzo & Betty

I am with you. I have owned boats with a variety of rigs and the ketch

is my favorite. You probably don't see many on the lakes because it is

mainly a cruising rig, having the advantage of being easy to single hand and

having many sail combinations to handle a variety of weather and sea

conditions. But It can not sail as close to the wind as a sloop, has a mast

in front of the steering station, is a bit slower and for those reasons is

not the first choice of day sailors or weekend cruisers. Personally I like

their looks and all the lines and rigging to mess with. Sail boat choice is

very personal, go with your gut------------gary

Thank you Gary for your insight very appreciative. I met today with our

broker to take another look at a Person 365. She is in great shape, and we

will be bringing an offer to the table soon. Once again, thanks Lorenzo

question: First I'd like to say this is the best site I've ever seen for advice. I wish I would have found you when I had my Columbia 26. on behalf of all us poor sailors, thank you so much for your help. Okay I'm looking at a 1973 Coronado 32'center cockpit for my next project and the boat I hope to retire on. The keel bolts need to be addressed and i've read on your site about that, but I would like to know if this boat has any notorious problems or anything that I should be wary of when doing my self survey. It has an inboard deisel and I've only dealt with outboards up till now, it basically looks like a greasy room with an engine in the middle of the floor. the hull looks like crap and I figured I'd sand it down and epoxy but I want that real glossy look for once, also , any input on turning this into a ketch rig? there is a large aft deck that basically is dead space as it is elevated due to the aft cabin. I know nothing about rigs and how one thing affects another, al!

l I've ever done is put up the main and go. thanks in advance, Rick Thompson

Rick;

Thanks for the accolades, it helps. I am not familiar with that particular boat but suggest you take your questions to both the cruising world discussion forum at http://forum.cruisingworld.com/forums/genlmesg/index.pl and to the Coranado forum page at http://www.concentric.net/~Cs-cb/Sailing/forum/.

As far as changing the Rig from a sloop to a ketch, you are on a slippery slope. A sailboat has a specific center of effort which is established from the relationship between the boats lines and the rig it has. The center of effort controls both the balance of the boat ie. steerage, and it's sailing efficiency on all points of sail. The mast on a sloop is fairly centered where in a ketch it is further forward, so changing the rig configuration without changing anything else is risky, but check on the forum and see if others have done such. Most importantly, there are a lot of used boats out there, it might make more sense to look for what you want rather than doing a conversion on a lesser vessel. Good luck with your search------gary

question: gary we are thinking of buying a 1969 sylva houseboat with steel tubes.i am worried they will rust thru.they look pretty rusty where they are out of water. the guy said it didnt leak and it is tied to buoy on fresh water lake.would you be concerned about steel tubes on a boat this old? thank you so much
.

Yes, I would be concerned. I am presently working on a friends steel
sailboat which appears in good shape but in scraping the bottom we produced
a small hole thru the hull. However if the houseboat is merely going to sit
in one place, you could add additional floatation under the structure but if
it is going to be moved about I would get an expert to check out the tubes.
If you have to check it yourself, have it hauled out of the water and sound
the tubes by lightly tapping all over them with a small hammer. You want to
hear solid sharp sounds not dull soft ones. Good luck, it's great to live on
the water-------gary

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CAULKING 57

question: Gary, I have gotten a lot of information from reading your site, and hope you might have time to anwer a question. I have a strip planked boat on which the seams are slightly opened. I have wooded the hull, filled the seams open enough to take it with seam compound, and put on a couple coats of bottom paint. The hairline cracks I then filled with wet/dry roof patch, to slow the leaking during the swelling process. Because the seams are only 1.25" apart, large areas of the hull have a thin coating of roofing cement over the bottom paint from where I cleaned the excess off with a broad knife. My question--do I need another coat of bottom paint over these areas, or will the roof cement wear off too quickly for anything to set on it? Thanks for any advice. Sam Glasscock

Sam;

Not much will grow on the roof cement, so no worry, but next time mix a
little bottom paint with the roof cement before you apply it------gary

question: I am refastening and recaulking a 76ft MCQueen yacht and I am wanting to know if I should use cement or a Sealant over the cotton in the seams? I have always used cement in the past but the boater owner is saying that his boat goes 25 knots and he is afraid that the cement will fly out. The sealant that he is thinking of using is 3M Marine Adhesive/Sealant Fast Cure 4000UV and I am afraid that the sealant will peel off if it does not stick good enough.

What is your opinion?

Thanks, Wilf

WILF;

I would tend to stay away from the 3m polysulfides they are almost
impossible to get out if necessary and they bring out the cotton with them.
Plus even at high speeds, I think the water pressure on the seams would push
in rather than pull the seam compound out. My preference would be to use the
standard Interlux underwater seam compound. Actually I have never heard of
seam compound coming out unless it is very old, hardened and shrunk. I have
little experience with cement as a seam filler so will not advise on its
use-----------gary

question: Hi Gary,

I have 43 foot spotted gum (1 1/2 inch) cruiser (built in Victoria Australia 1957)- what are your thoughts on the advantages/disadvantages of splining the garboard please?

On one hand Im told that its a great idea to strengthen the area and reduce leaks, never have to recaulk etc., but then Im told by others not to spline the garboard. Planks in my hull are copper clenched. I have some laminated ribs that are cracked (mostly on bends). Boat takes a little water, more after a working.

If I was to spline Im told a pine wood (celery top pine - Australian boat building wood) would be fine coated in west systems epoxy. Does this sound right? Would really appreciate your opinion.

Cheers, John Tasmania Australia

John;

Carvel planked boats, plank on frame, are caulked with cotton and or oakum because the
wood moves from the natural stresses on a boat hull and the watertightness
of a seam is dependent on the filler to adapt to this movement. Splines must
be glued in or they will "walk" out of the seam and a glued spline has no
ability to absorb movement and will thus crack the glue or epoxy seal and
leak like hell with no easy repair. With caulking , which needs to be
changed or tightened up occasionally { especially on the garboard where oil
and diesel can eat up the cotton), the fix is not that big of deal. Boats
that are built with splined seams and fiberglassed over can make for a strong hull but using splining on a plank on frame hull that was built for
caulking is a strict NO GO. Good luck with your project, sounds like a nice
boat------gary

G'Day Gary,

Thats great advice, makes sense of course - there is a bloke splining the

garboard on a large carvel closed seam boat next to mine. he is then

diagonally laminating hoop pine over the te planks. i cant undertsand why

because the hull seems as tight as a drum so to speak.

Thanks again. Pic of my boat attached - much cabin work being done next hull

and fit out.

John

John;

Some folks want to turn their perfectly well built wood boat into an
epoxy amalgamation of wood pieces, defeating the very advantages that a wood
boat has, its ability to flex and move with stress. Great shots, you are a
good steward to your boat. Have a great day down under---g

Hi Gary,

That was a quick response. Reading between the lines I think what you are

saying is that leave the garboard as is (i.e. re-caulk with traditional

materials) because its meant to have movement yes/no? I guess if the answer

is yes then undue stress is avoided from being transferred as a result of

splining to other parts of the hull (and on an older hull this could cause

problems)?

Thanks John

Yes, to all .

question: Ok, I just launched "LazyLucy" a fenwick Williams designed catboat. Progress photos can be viewed at: www.hersheyviolins.com. My question is, How can I stop a leaking skeg?? The boat has been in the water for 7 days but is still leaking around the shaft log which continues right up into the bilge. The logs were constructed tight together and over the years (10 years of building) have seperated about 1/4" above and below the shaft log. Just prior to launching her I trialed in seam compound thinking she would take up and tighten up. Well. so far that doesn't seem to have helped. I was thinking of hauling her back out and using a different method of caulking. I need some direction. Cotton, no cotton? Tube caulking only, both or some other method. Awaiting your reply. Scott.

How does this product work with a catboat rig? No sail track at all? What is
the price for one with a mast height from boom set at 20'. Where can this
product be purchased?
Awaiting your reply, Scott.

Scott;
Wonderful workmanship, but of course, you make violins and I love the
playful colors.Where is she sailed? To fix the leak I would insert a
softwood, like pine, spline into the open seam.It should swell and stop the
leak and be soft enough to give if the log swells a bit more.
Being attached to the sail track is what stabilizes the mast mate but some
with gaff rigs tie it off around the mast as they ascend and undo the ties
as they descend. Custom lengths are $10 a foot and they are ordered through
me--------gary

question: I've owned a 62' regdum paddlewheeler on the River Murray in South Australia for a few years now and replaced the decks 6 years ago. I used jarrah planks 5" x 1.5" caulked with Sikaflex. There is a fair amount of expansion and contraction with the seasons (0 degrees overnight in Winter, 40 degrees plus in Summer) and 2 problems are proving difficult. Firstly the Sikaflex tends to pull away from the planks even though it was primed and laid according to instructions. Is there another system worth trying and if so, what's the best way to remove the Sikaflex? Secondly I can't find an oil which hangs in there for more than about 6 months. I currently use Deks Olje - quite expensive and the Jarrah drinks it in large quantities. I don't really want to paint the decks, but am starting to think this may be the only solution. Any thoughts?

Thanks, Mark
.

Mark;

Unfortunately Sikaflex has never been good as a deck seam compound. 3M,
the maker of 5200 caulk makes one now for decks, it has a different number.
The best, but most difficult to work with is the 2 part polysulfide called
Decto-----http://www.detcosterling.com/dcaulkappl.htm
I am not much of an oil on wood expert, but I ended up a fan of transmission
fluid, it colors the wood a bit reddish but seemed to last as long as the
expensive stuff. There is no simple way to remove Sikaflex, only a razor
knife for the big stuff and a router with a batten guide to cleanup the
edges. Good luck------gary
.

question: Hi Gary---I have a 1937 39' Wheeler Playmate, Hull #1140, Which I am restoring to as neer original as is possible. The hull is 7/8" Philippine Mahogany over white oak frames. I have two questions:

1. Were the panks above water line edge fitted on the inner 1/2" or were they installed with a 1/8" gap and caulked? They appear to have a fairly consistant gap and have been cotton caulked.

2. Over the years the outside of the seams have really been butchered; inconsistant width, epoxy compound, neoprene seam compound, etc. Is there a way to rebuild these planks short of routing each edge and gluing a strip in?

Thanks, Chuck

Chuck;
Nice project. Usually seams that are meant to be cotton caulked are
beveled <, touching on the inside with a 1/8 to 3/8 gap on the outside.
This is so that when setting the cotton it is not driven through the
seam. Depending on the outside gap of your seams you could use a batten as a
guide and router a even notch about a 1/4 in deep for the seam compound.
This would not interfere with the seated cotton. If your gap is too wide ,
glued splines is the only way to even out those edges------gary

question: Gary, I have inherited a duck boat, circa 1900, made of bald-cypress in south Louisiana/east Texas by my grandfather and great grandfather, Robert Elmer Bowman, hunters, trappers, and fishermen. It's a freshwater, two man hunting boat drawing only a few inches draft with less than six inches freeboard. The bottom is a single piece of 1/2 inch thick cypress with identically pointed bow and stern, 14.5 ft long overall. The hull planks are 3/8 inch thick by 1 inch wide, extending the full length as seven individual planks per side, topped by three inches of side rail. The two lower hull plank seams need to be filled. The seam space is approx. the thickness of a putty knife blade.

Should thess seams be filled with cotton and/or seam compound? What kind would be in keeping with the desire to maintain authenticity? I plan to remove the alkyd marine paint applied thirty plus years ago, probably finishing with linseed oil.

Thanks much. Sincerely,--R. Sidney

Sidney;

Nice heirloom, and you seem to be the right steward to keep the gift alive and floating for several more generations. If those seams are beveled like so < , wide part to the outside, I would squeeze in a strand of string covered over by traditional seam compound, Interlux has it. If no bevel just use the seam compound. Send me photo when you're finished------gary

question: Hello Gary. Extremely helpful site. My question: I am building a 16 ft skiff of eastern white pine planks 3/4 thick, and am planning on impregnating the wood with a linseed oil-tar recipe, so there will be no paint inside or out. What would be the best material to caulk a completely bright-finished boat? white lead will show, right? would pitch be a good idea? could one use only cotton wicking and boiled linseed for caulking? or tar and wicking? also, should I impregnate the boat before caulking or after? the sides and bottom are pretty tight seams as they are not complex curves. thanks for any ideas!

Matthew;

Nice project. The tar and linseed finish is very traditional and good for the wood but leaves a surface residue that collects dirt and stains everything, you might consider other options--tung oil, varnish etc. Cotton wicking after wood is treated and seam compound, there is a brown made by Interlux, over that is OK. Pitch is normally just used on caulked decks. ---gary

Thanks so much for your help, Gary. One further question if you have a
moment: will the tung oil penetrate as far as the linseed and tar, and should
the cotton wicking be soaked in anything before going into the seams? thanks
again

Matthew

Matt;

You're welcome-------Yes the tung oil will penetrate as far, even further if heated up. No treatment to the caulking is needed before placement, but after its seated brush the seam with oil, this keeps the oils in the seam compound from leeching out into the wood and drying out the compound. Good luck--send a pic when done and ask more as needed-------g

question: Gary:

I am the proud owner of a boat of your namesake...Wheeler 43. I'm sure with your experience, and your last name, you are familiar with these boats. The boat has been completely redone by the great grandson of the Wheeler Yacht Company, John Wheeler of Newport Beach, CA. It is a wonderful boat (Sea Magazine May '05). The hull is in great shape, but it takes on a little water aft through a leaky seam about five feet in length. The water trickles through to a forward pump (maybe a quart a day...not much). Question is...since it has been recently hauled, I dont want to put it through the stress of another until a bottom job is needed. I have been told that my diver can apply an underwater epoxy to stop the leak. Is this possible? Does it work? Or should I just wait 18 months till the next haul?

Wayne;

Nice boat, wish my family was somehow connected but no such luck. No problem using epoxy until the next haulout. A little sawdust swirled into the water around the leak also works but must be repeated often for it washes out when the boat is used. Have fun with her---------gary

question: Gary,

I'm getting ready to use the Interlux Seam compound on the new boards of my '68 Owens, both above and below water. Question is , when do I paint bottom and sides? The boat will swell when it goes in water (out for three months) and push seam compound out leaving a redge of compound under the paint. What is proceedure you would recommend for bottom and sides?

Thanks, Bob

Bob;

Moving right along I see. Before you apply the seam compound you should paint the seam with an oil base paint, this prevents the oils in the compound from leeching into the bare wood and drying out. You can paint as soon as the compound skims over, usually in 24 hrs. The topsides will swell less than the bottom. Next time you haul just trim the excess with a sharp chisel.------g

question: Hi Gary hope that you are 'en forme'

I mailed a few weeks ago about my dear aged little clinker dinghy, you may recall?? Will have to take a picture for you as the original ones have vanished.

Well I have had my little boat Simone sunk now for about three weeks and every time I bale her out she still takes in water and after about two days she is back on the bottom boo hoo. I haven't got around to your suggestion of using a pizza cutter & string in the gap approach yet as there aren't any noticable gaps/cracks.

Do you think that there is a more serious problem? I really do not know what to do short of getting proffesional help which should be fun here in deepest France!! You talk about polysulphide, what exactly is that??

Thanks in anticipation
Andy

Andy;

Iam sorry to hear your beloved Simone will not stay afloat ( Have you read Folley Moett's book The Boat That Wouldn't Float?) You are right to surmise there is a problem beyond swelling. Usually clinker built boats have either rivets or clenched nails as fastenings both of which can be tightened up up by tapping on the head while holding a backing iron against the rove or the bent part of the nail. Better done by two. I would also try to locate the leaky areas by drying her out good and sitting in her and then tighten the fastenings in those areas. Polysulfide a a marine caulk available at marine stores and some hardware stores and you could try putting a bead along each seam. Good luck with her and I await a pinup photo---------g

In serveral of your articles you mentioned a black

roofing caulk for covering hairline cracks on a

wooden hull to slow the flow of water until

the planks swell. Can you give me the spec

and manufacturer of the caulk?

Donn;

The tar is a called a wet dry roof patch and is the consistency of peanut butter. Thompson is one of the brand names but ace hardware and other brand hardware stores put their names on it as well. You won't find it in a Marine store, just is hardware or building supply outlets. Use paint thinner for cleanup------g

question: Gary,

I have a 1968 Owens with 1/2" mohogany over 1/4" plywood on the sides. I am replacing several above waterline boards along with some below. I see from previous responses that for below water you recommend roofing tar for bedding, and Interlux seam compound. What bedding do you recommend for above the waterline?

Also, what is best way to get old seam compound, it's not cotton caulking, out from between planks that are not removed?

Bob

Bob;

Brand name for good above water bedding is Dolphonite, available in marine stores. If the seams have no cotton they are probably parallel, i.e. no bevel needed for setting cotton , so the easiest way to reef out the seam compound is to use either a router with a straight bit or a small circular saw with a batten guide. By hand, use the pointed tip of a file bent over. Have fun---g

question: Hi Gary, thanks for sharing your knowledge!

I'm working on an H-23 Prudence and hoping she will be able to spend her twilight years on the lakes here in Arizona. She's been a southern California salt water boat for around 60 years. Her cedar planks have shrunk some and the old calking & cotton is falling out in places. I think she was recalked some time in the past and the fasteners were sistered with silicon bronze. The problem is that the planks don't seem to have a bevel, the gaps are as large inside as outside. Do you have any advice on how to desertize an old carvel planked boat? Could I attach a strip of backing along the top side of each plank inside the boat to give the caulker something to work against so the cotton doesn't just fall through? Would the roof patch stuff be a good approach?

I have a website for Herreshoff Eagle owners and have put some pictures of Prudence there. www.herreshoffeagle.com

I'd really appreciate you suggestions.

Thanks,
Gary,New River, AZ.

Gary;

Pretty boat, nice pics. You have to have a bevel on the seam to caulk with cotton. Sometimes that bevel is flattened from reefing out the cotton with too much vigor .. If the seams were thin you could recut a bevel on one side of the seam with a guided skill saw, but if the seams are too open you have to glue in a beveled spline to one side of the seam. Backing the seam inside the boat will not work. In her new fresh water environment, keep a lot of salt in the bilges to fend off the rot spores as well as keeping her well ventilated. If you can't find a good caulker, I would glue in thicker splines and roll in some fat cotton string rather than trying to pound cotton, which is tricky business and needs to be done by someone with a lot of experience. I would recheck your seams for a bevel, it doesn't take much of one and I don't see how she was caulked or recaulked in the first place without the bevel.--------g

question: Hello and Greetings from Peterborough England,

I have just bought an 18.5 ' clinker built "gaff" boat built by Partingtons in wales in 1959. She has been out of the water (sea) for 6 years now and where the transom meets the planks I can see much daylight. I aslso assume that the planks will be loose and dry all over her. My fear is that she will sink if I put her on the water to swell up, do you have any hints or tips to cope with this

Incidently I have heard that the origional architects of clinker, the vikings used to sink their newly finished boats purposfully in order to swell the joints, is this true and could I do the same?

She is pitch pine with copper rivets on oak stretchers

Thank you, you seem a good man

Rgds----David

David;

Interesting boat. The Vikings did it right, sinking or the equivalent is the way to go. You can't really do any meaningful repairs or finish work until the hull has swelled to her floating state.Of course , being wood she will only sink to her gunnels. Short of sinking, which can be logistically difficult, staple an absorbent material to the hull, inside or outside or both, and keep it saturated with water. In 10 days or so she should be ok. Another option is to fill the open seams with a cheap caulk like roof patch tar and put her in the water and after she swells remove the excess caulk.----enjoy your new--old boat-----gary

Gary

Sandpiper is coming on well, because of other pressures i have sold my Morecombe bay prawner to another restorer and i am concentrating on Sandpiper. My question is i would like paye the seams on the deck with black caulking, what would be a modern substitute for tar.

Many thanks--- Dave C

Dave;

Good on you to know your limits, the boats will be better for it. 3m has made a polysulfide in a tube just for that purpose--101 or 4000 I am not sure. Also Detco makes an excellent, albeit very messy to apply, 2 part polysulfide--see at http://www.detcosterling.com/dcaulkappl.htm. Don't use any other caulks that are not particular for deck use, they break down quickly.-------Good luck------g

question: Gary,

Do you feel that Davis Slick Seam will forever render one's wooden boat seams to that product because the waxy nature invades and contaminates? If I Slick Seam this year will I forever be tied to that product or have to solvent clean beyond my wildest dreams?

Yes---stay with the tried and true brown. Mix with a little bottom paint and it is easier to use. If you put it in caulking tubes, hold a high speed palm sander on the side of the tube after it is full and all the air will settle out-------g

question: I just purchased an unusual wooden boat(circa 1907). She is a double ended gaff-rigged pinky cutter. Thiry-seven feet overall. Oregon cedar over oak for her hull, bronze fastened with bronze rigging wire. She has a few weeping planks. I throw some rock salt into the bilge on occasion to keep her salty. Question #1: Can I use roofing tar to temporarily stop the weeping while she is in the water? She came with a large tin of what I understand to be Stockholm Tar. Question #2: Is this used just for fragrance (delightful) or is this also suitable for drying her tears?

Delightful boat, you are a lucky man. Unusual to have bronze rigging wire because it stretches. Yes, you can use the wet dry roof patch tar to stop up weepy seams, and yes, that good smelling stuff is for seams as well, but usually just deck seams. Also, an old trick to stop weepy planks while not underway is to swirl some saw dust in the water. The saw dust will clog the leaks but will wash out once the boat is underway again.-------gary

Hi Gary,

Okay, I am finally caulking my wood planked fishing boat, using cotton and then a polysulfide, boat life product.
How the heck do they get such nice finished seams.
I apply it in the groove from the caulking gun with a thin tip.. I then use a stiff putty knife and go along the seam with pressure to push the caulking into the seam.
But I end up with it all over as wide as the 1 1/2" putty knife.
How do I get it in just the seam?
Should I follow along with a rag with paint thinner or acetone or something?
Thanks for your help.

Kevin Rea

Kevin:
How did your bulwarks turn out? With your seams you have to tape both sides of the seam, put in the goo, push it in and smooth it with a wet[water] finger, this will indent it slightly so when the plank swells it will be flush more or less. Than pull the tape while the goo is still wet. Pull the tape back on itself like< . For future reference, polysulfides will work OK as a seam compound if you have not painted the seams first, but because it sticks to the wood like glue, it is a bear to get out. Regular interlux seam compound, white for topsides, brown for the bottom is best but when using it you must paint the seam so the oils don't leach into the wood and dry it out prematurely.----------------good luck

Hi,
I was reading a message post from you from about a year ago, and you said that
using a polysulfide for caulking a carvel seam is not the best way to go because
it is so hard to remove at a future date.
What should I use instead?
Thanks,
kevin rea

Kevin:
Nice site and nice boat. Congratulations. For the seams use the Interlux seam compound, white for the topsides, brown for the bottom. Before you pay the seams paint them with an oils based paint, this keeps the solvents from leeching out of the seam compound into the wood and cotton and subsequently drying out. If you are doing a lot of seams, here's a trick I learned. Get some empty caulking tubes and mix your seam compound with a little paint, oil based for topsides or bottom paint for bottom seams and mix it to a caulking consistency. When filling the caulking tubes hold a high speed vibrating sander to the side of the tube. This gets all the trapped air out. I would highly recommend taping both sides of your seams, it's a pain in the ass but not as much of a pain as trying to clean up the excess caulking from around the seam. As you put the caulking in follow with a putty knife and pull your tape before the seam compound dries. Hope this helps, good luck-------gary

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